The San Diego Wildfire starter: To be punished?

[pantherLax]

The starter of the San Diego Wildfire, was a 7-10 year old kid.
Many homes and buildings were destroyed, lives were changed, people died.

Do you think he should be punished? Should his parents be punished? What should happen?

We had an intense discussion in class today about it, but thats all i know. I did a brief search online and the below is the best article i could find. If anyone has a better article please put it up.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2202325,00.html



Discuss

[CApenguin88]

from what I've heard people who have been affected by the far could seek compensation but I mean he is a little kid. Who can honestly say that when you were that age that you did not make a mistake? You were never curious about how things work? I mean he has done serious damage and maybe the parents should have watched their children more but parents aren't superheroes they can't do everything while supporting their parents. The kid is gonna have to live with it forever and thats punishment enough

thats my 2 cents

[slinkyspine]

Death penalty.


Kidding, but if fire investigators believe its power lines, it may be. Little kids make stories up when they feel guilty.

[faceofflax15]

Wasn't it only one of 24 fires? Yeah that's somthing, but that cannot be the only thing that started the fire.. As an ex-pyro, I can say that grass and land isn't that flamable, it goes out pretty damn fast, unless you have, say, gasoline on it. So, this kid probaly just thought he was responsible and was worried so the guilt got to him, when really it wasn't even him just a coincidence.

[laxmj1992]

I think both he and his parents should receive severe punishment. People get the death penalty for killing like 10 people, but he should not receive any penalty for killing thousands? It is their entire family's fault, they deserve to go to jail for life at the minimum.

[Lacr0sse15]

Either he or his parents need to get in some serious trouble. If he seriously did it with bad intent, he should be punished. If he was just being a kid, which is hopefully and likely the case as he's under 13, his parents should be punished. OR, if he was with frends or under someone else's supervision, they should be punished. Perhaps with, perhaps without him.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

I think both he and his parents should receive severe punishment. People get the death penalty for killing like 10 people, but he should not receive any penalty for killing thousands? It is their entire family's fault, they deserve to go to jail for life at the minimum.

for what crime?

[ReLaxin 13]

Wasn't it only one of 24 fires? Yeah that's somthing, but that cannot be the only thing that started the fire.. As an ex-pyro, I can say that grass and land isn't that flamable, it goes out pretty damn fast, unless you have, say, gasoline on it. So, this kid probaly just thought he was responsible and was worried so the guilt got to him, when really it wasn't even him just a coincidence.

I don't think you realize how dry and windy it was there...

[ddalton11]

the parents dont need to be punished IMO i think it is the kids fault. He should have a severe punishment but something that would get to a 7-10 yr old, like go to all the house and apologize to all the families and maybe something else. who knows...

[lslaxer]

[QUOTE=laxmj1992;1379242]I think both he and his parents should receive severe punishment. Pdddddddddd

[CApenguin88]

just to clarify the kid started the fire in Los Angeles if I remember right not San Diego

[VTLaxFan]

they should invent a new punishment. Once the kid turns fourteen he starts working, he continues working until he pays off the debt for the fire.

[Brandon303]

Either he or his parents need to get in some serious trouble. If he seriously did it with bad intent, he should be punished. If he was just being a kid, which is hopefully and likely the case as he's under 13, his parents should be punished. OR, if he was with frends or under someone else's supervision, they should be punished. Perhaps with, perhaps without him.
Are you being serious? The kid is 7 years old! I hope you're joking...

Has anyone ever gone camping or whatever and were just glued to the fire (poking it and throwing wood on, etc...) when they were young? Every freakin kid (especially boys) goes through that! If you can't tell, unless his parents are abusive or whatever, there's no way it's their fault.

I mean there's no way the kid wanted to set a forest on fire and put lives at risk. It's just a kid people. And there is no actual proof that he is the cause of all that destruction (and there's no way he started all 24 fires).

[Attackalltheway]

My friends family friends died in this fire. Very sad. I dont think the family should be punished because it wasnt their fault their son did it as far as we know

[Eclipse]

I think both he and his parents should receive severe punishment. People get the death penalty for killing like 10 people, but he should not receive any penalty for killing thousands? It is their entire family's fault, they deserve to go to jail for life at the minimum.

Who are you kidding? 7 people died, not thousands, so before you go make claims you should make sure you know what your talking about.

Second, can you honestly tell me there was never a time as a little kid you did some things you shouldn't have done? Sure they didn't result in the death of 7 people...this kid just got very unlucky. Honestly, several friends of mine stole their parents cars in middle school and went for joy rides, tons of kids play with matches, accidentally shoot a kid with a BB gun, my list could go on forever. All little kids did it...so should they all be punished along with this child too? He did nothing different from every other kid that plays with matches...his situation was very unlucky.

This child should not be punished. He had no intent to hurt anyone, and has to live with the guilt of 7 peoples lives on his hands.

[laxmj1992]

for what crime?

for murder, obviously. He also destroyed people's houses.

[stinisonfire]

I don't care what the family's defense is; that's poor parenting. My parents weren't the best, but they made damn sure I knew that fires were a serious deal. Oh, and I probably wouldn't leave my kid unsupervised ... in a forest... with the ability to light anything.

[laxmj1992]

Okay, in the article cited it said the fire was directly responsible for the death of 7 people, not thousands. That is a gross exaggeration, and jail for life? That's a little harsh, I'm pretty sure a day in jail, plus the deaths on his hands are enough of a punishment to teach him a lesson.

You caught me there, I did not know my facts before posting.
We both agree that he is responsible for the death of 7 people. You don't think killing 7 people deserves a life sentence? Not to mention the $1,000,000,000 dollars in damage he caused to San Diego alone.

[laxmj1992]

Who are you kidding? 7 people died, not thousands, so before you go make claims you should make sure you know what your talking about.

Second, can you honestly tell me there was never a time as a little kid you did some things you shouldn't have done? Sure they didn't result in the death of 7 people...this kid just got very unlucky. Honestly, several friends of mine stole their parents cars in middle school and went for joy rides, tons of kids play with matches, accidentally shoot a kid with a BB gun, my list could go on forever. All little kids did it...so should they all be punished along with this child too? He did nothing different from every other kid that plays with matches...his situation was very unlucky.

This child should not be punished. He had no intent to hurt anyone, and has to live with the guilt of 7 peoples lives on his hands.

If those kids killed 7 people and pretty much destroyed a city, then yes I think they should be responsible.

[MainLax28]

Nothing should be done. The kid is 7 years old. I am sure he didn't do it on purpose. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably go to the nearest cliff and jump off of it. Stuff happens, and that is just the way the wind blows. Sometimes you do things that turn out good, and sometimes they turn out bad. This was just an accident that happened to turn out bad. You can't blame one person for the misfortune of others.

This is the same as when people say that President Bush was responsible for September 11, and Katrina. Because he has the power to create a hurricane.

I hate when people even bring stuff like this up. Those people who died were in areas that were told to evacuate. It is their own fault that they did not leave. People just need to take responsibility for their actions instead of blaming others.

If you have one of the fastest moving and widespread wildfires bearing down on your house, you leave. Especially when you are warned by the government. Same as when you live in a city 14 feet under water, and a category 5 hurricane is coming. You leave.

[Brandon303]

for murder, obviously. He also destroyed people's houses.
Haha.. murder for a 7 year old playing with matches.

At the most he would be charged with arson and/or destruction of property but then what do you do with that?
Send him to jail? Right..
Send him to juvie? Don't think so.

I can 99% assure you this kid won't get into any trouble at all. And by the way, everyone here (me included) are all assuming he is the sole reason for the 24 fires being started which is clearly highly unlikely.

[Brandon303]

If those kids killed 7 people and pretty much destroyed a city, then yes I think they should be responsible.
I want your honest opinion here.
What do you propose happens to this kid in terms of punishment?

I mean like honestly, what can the government do to a 7 year that won't piss the entire country off (because people will not be pleased if this kid gets sent to juvie or whatever, which won't happen but I'm just proving a point)?

[pantherLax]

Nice discussion. Can anyone find an article so we cant get the facts straight?

What do you think should be done though? Cause after all, what he did caused 7 deaths and whatever $ of damage and lost homes. And yea hes a little kid and little kids do stupid things. But Eclipse, i think hes between 7-10, thats what the teacher said in class, but i dont have an article to prove that. But if he is 7-10, your examples of joy rides and BB guns are a little extreme, but i get your point.
I didnt myself and i donno if my friends did but is 7-10 year old playing with fire normal?

What if the kid was actually messed upthough, what do you think of counseling?

slinkyspine, since hes a little kid i dont think he came forward himself, but his parents told the police that their child did it. I dont think the parents would put their kid and family in danger and in the spotlight if they didnt know for sure

[WinnytheSully]

when someone indirectly causes a murder, it's manslaughter, which can't lead to the death penealty
also, I think he should have to write some form of apology, and shouldn't ever be allowed to purchase matches or lighters, but he didn't mean for this to happen, and a lot of other factors allowed this to happen

[pantherLax]

From Wikipedia...yea yea not all info on wiki is not true w.e.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_wildfires_of_October_2007

The first two fires that started were the biggest, Witch Creek and Harris, which 7 people died. According to Wiki, only 7 have died so far in the entire wildfire. So from Wiki, we can assume the kid is responsible for starting both Witch Creek and Harris, which led to the other fires in SD...unless there was another cause to other ones.

[Brandon303]

when someone indirectly causes a murder, it's manslaughter, which can't lead to the death penealty
also, I think he should have to write some form of apology, and shouldn't ever be allowed to purchase matches or lighters, but he didn't mean for this to happen, and a lot of other factors allowed this to happen
What if he smokes cigarettes? How will he light up? :bartmoon:
Just kidding, but something like that isn't really ethical and would be dropped as soon as the kid's lawyer (assuming it goes to court) mentioned the constitution which a penalty like that would conflict with.

I'm actually thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Hope someone can dig up an article with straight up factoids.

[WinnytheSully]

obviously you can't ban him from lighting up, but if it was possible, it would make sense, I don't see why part of the penealty for arson can't be you can't buy lighters or matches
edit:My mom and dad say this would be possible, cause it relates to the crime, and my mom went to NYU law and my dad went to columbia law, so they're no chumps, son

[toey2516]

First of all we are talking about the ultra liberal so cal culture here. Even if it went to trial (which is doubtful) the kid would get off. However, I think we should be careful to say the kid just made "a mistake". When I made a mistake at 10 years old I didn't cause billions of dollars in damages. The lesson I guess is that as parents you should know what your kid is up to and have enough responsibility to at least say "hey its dry and windy out, be careful". Obviously no one could forsee a disaster like this, but a little common sense should be applied. Altho I still doubt a little kid could have started those fires...then again i'm not an expert on fires in that part of the country anyways.

[QnzLaxStatz]

I dont think anything should happen to him..at maybe 7 no but deff at 10 fire was the cool thing to play with..putting a bunch of white out in a milk carton and watching it explode like a rocket and stuff...deff not trying to hurt anybody..he was just very very unlucky..something like an extreme apology would be fair..why ruin a kids whole life for a lesson im positive he learned..he probally wont do anything close to illegal again on his own because of the guilt and the experience alone..

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Nothing should be done. The kid is 7 years old. I am sure he didn't do it on purpose. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably go to the nearest cliff and jump off of it. Stuff happens, and that is just the way the wind blows. Sometimes you do things that turn out good, and sometimes they turn out bad. This was just an accident that happened to turn out bad. You can't blame one person for the misfortune of others.

This is the same as when people say that President Bush was responsible for September 11, and Katrina. Because he has the power to create a hurricane.

I hate when people even bring stuff like this up. Those people who died were in areas that were told to evacuate. It is their own fault that they did not leave. People just need to take responsibility for their actions instead of blaming others.

If you have one of the fastest moving and widespread wildfires bearing down on your house, you leave. Especially when you are warned by the government. Same as when you live in a city 14 feet under water, and a category 5 hurricane is coming. You leave.

yes. i agree 100%.

[Brandon303]

obviously you can't ban him from lighting up, but if it was possible, it would make sense, I don't see why part of the penealty for arson can't be you can't buy lighters or matches
edit:My mom and dad say this would be possible, cause it relates to the crime, and my mom went to NYU law and my dad went to columbia law, so they're no chumps, son
All I'm saying is that ban him from buying lighters or not, he will most definately be able to get his hands on something flammable whenever he wanted.

And for the record, I was never saying that you or your parents were unable to construct a logical punishment so I don't know why you brought that up.

[JLancer24]

All I'm saying is that ban him from buying lighters or not, he will most definately be able to get his hands on something flammable whenever he wanted.

And for the record, I was never saying that you or your parents were unable to construct a logical punishment so I don't know why you brought that up.

How can you ban him from buying lighters or matches? You can buy matches or lighters at any supermarket, CVS, Stop and Shop, Kroger and any gas station etc. Off of the top of my head I there are 5 places within 10 minutes walking distcance in my house where I could buy a lighter. How would you be able to stop that. Start ID'ing people for lighters? No one would hold to it. Theyre not going to print out 50,000,000 pictures of him and send them to every place that sells lighters and matches so they know who not to sell them to. If they did either of those and he needed one to light candles or smoke etc. he could just stand outside of somewhere that sells them and ask someone to get them for him.

[Brandon303]

How can you ban him from buying lighters or matches? You can buy matches or lighters at any supermarket, CVS, Stop and Shop, Kroger and any gas station etc. Off of the top of my head I there are 5 places within 10 minutes walking distcance in my house where I could buy a lighter. How would you be able to stop that. Start ID'ing people for lighters? No one would hold to it. Theyre not going to print out 50,000,000 pictures of him and send them to every place that sells lighters and matches so they know who not to sell them to. If they did either of those and he needed one to light candles or smoke etc. he could just stand outside of somewhere that sells them and ask someone to get them for him.
That's exactly what I've been saying. Along with banning someone from buying/using an everyday object would be completely unethical and would go against the American constitution (as I said above).

[HRLAXER]

well, its either arson or its nothing.. and since its not intentional its not arson so therefore it was an accident.

and yeah believe me, fires start the best when you dont want them to. and i disagree with the post that said super dry grass isnt flamable.

there was a fire in a town near mine that was started by a lawnmower and the driver was a 15 year old kid in my town. only a trailer home burned down but it took the local fire departments 3 days to fully extinguish the fire ( i was there for a total of 24 hours in two days)

but you cant charge a little kid with an accident no matter if people were killed or not. spit happens.

[JLancer24]

That's exactly what I've been saying. Along with banning someone from buying/using an everyday object would be completely unethical and would go against the American constitution (as I said above).

Yea when I quoted you I meant that I was agreeing with you not arguing. And he could just light something like a stick with his stove if he had gas. There is basically no way he could be completely banned from fire. Which would make it a complete waste of time and money if the government some how tried to "ban" him.

[Brandon303]

Yea when I quoted you I meant that I was agreeing with you not arguing. And he could just light something like a stick with his stove if he had gas. There is basically no way he could be completely banned from fire. Which would make it a complete waste of time and money if the government some how tried to "ban" him.
Yeah I kinda figured that's what you were doing with the quote.

But, I don't think this kid is going to be looking for things to burn for a very very long time (unless he's a nutjob, which apparently he is not) with this hanging on his shoulders for the rest of his life. The kid is probably going to be petrified of fire and it's consequences for the rest of his childhood.

[navylax161]

he shouldnt be put away for life, but he shouldnt be let off totally free either. i mean, he didnt do it on purpose, thats true. but he killed people, enough said. there must be some kind of punishment for that. if you were a family member of one of those victims, youd want this kid in jail until the day he dies.

[livin4lax09]

the way 7 year olds make decisions and the way you guys make decisions are worlds apart. he shouldn't be punished in any way close to what a normal person of age would be put through. children don't have nearly the same mental processes that young adults/adults have. that is exactly the reason why juveniles are processed differently than adults, and here we see that to an even greater degree.

[abomb]

Are you being serious? The kid is 7 years old! I hope you're joking...

Has anyone ever gone camping or whatever and were just glued to the fire (poking it and throwing wood on, etc...) when they were young? Every freakin kid (especially boys) goes through that! If you can't tell, unless his parents are abusive or whatever, there's no way it's their fault.

I mean there's no way the kid wanted to set a forest on fire and put lives at risk. It's just a kid people. And there is no actual proof that he is the cause of all that destruction (and there's no way he started all 24 fires).

I totally know what you mean brother. Im suprised I havent caused any bad damage or started any forest fires for the shtuff I've done with fire when I go camping.

I think he needs to make a formal apology to the city of San Diego and hand write letters to those who lost someone.

[CApenguin88]

I totally know what you mean brother. Im suprised I havent caused any bad damage or started any forest fires for the shtuff I've done with fire when I go camping.

I think he needs to make a formal apology to the city of San Diego and hand write letters to those who lost someone.

ok i think we need to change the name of the thread to LOS ANGELES fire

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aE9w81HitHl8

this one has been confirmed to be the little boy

the arson for the one in irvine hasn't been found yet

[Tehb2]

I think both he and his parents should receive severe punishment. People get the death penalty for killing like 10 people, but he should not receive any penalty for killing thousands? It is their entire family's fault, they deserve to go to jail for life at the minimum.

Was it seriously thousands? Last time I put any real focus into the fires like at most 20 people were dead, but maybe something happened recently I hadn't heard about.

Its hard to say how to punish someone like that. As a pretty young kid, its hard to put too much blame, and it would be unfair to go after the parents because are we to say that parents should be watching everything their kids do? That would be too much work for the parents, and most of us have had our own times as kids without supervision, and we haven't done anything nearly as bad. And, the damage is SO huge, there couldn't be a punishment that both satisfied those hurt and still wasn't too severe on this kid. Not unless the kid did it on purpose, expecting to cause a lot of damage, which I doubt - most kids have to get older before they are psychopaths.

[cali feeder]

Without reading much of the thread, I'm going to say charge the PARENTS for arson, 'cause they're damn idiots for leaving their kid unsupervised in a forest with a fire source.

Why are people like that allowed to breed...

[Lax Crazy12]

Okay, in the article cited it said the fire was directly responsible for the death of 7 people, not thousands. That is a gross exaggeration, and jail for life? That's a little harsh, I'm pretty sure a day in jail, plus the deaths on his hands are enough of a punishment to teach him a lesson.

7 deaths...from all of southern California on fire :OMG: ? What are you smoking? Maybe from a fire he started, and that was contained later, but are you talking about only what he started or ALL of southern California? Besides, if he ruined 68 homes, leaving 68 families homeless, they should put him in some sort of jail for at least 3-5 weeks.

[Brandon303]

Without reading much of the thread, I'm going to say charge the PARENTS for arson, 'cause they're damn idiots for leaving their kid unsupervised in a forest with a fire source.

Why are people like that allowed to breed...
So, you're saying that when you have kids you are going to supervise them 100% of their childhood, causing them to never get into mischief.

...Yeah right, good luck with that (and watch your kids hate you and want to rebel). We aren't talking about the "most hated family in the USA" here (the family who protests at soldier's funerals, etc..). These parents aren't inbred swine who aren't worthy to live in today's society, unlike the family mentioned above. This is your average Joe family. You should definately reconsider talking so much smack about the parents when no one even knows anything about them at all.

There is certainly no real proof that the parents are to blame here.

[atm 1892]

So, you're saying that when you have kids you are going to supervise them 100% of their childhood, causing them to never get into mischief.

...Yeah right, good luck with that (and watch your kids hate you and want to rebel). We aren't talking about the "most hated family in the USA" here (the family who protests at soldier's funerals, etc..). These parents aren't inbred swine who aren't worthy to live in today's society, unlike the family mentioned above. This is your average Joe family. You should definately reconsider talking so much smack about the parents when no one even knows anything about them at all.

There is certainly no real proof that the parents are to blame here.

I totally agree. As much as we would all like to blame the parents, it's just not a logical argument. There is no way a parent could possibly keep an eye on their kid for every second of every day. It's just not possible.

[laxmj1992]

I want your honest opinion here.
What do you propose happens to this kid in terms of punishment?

I mean like honestly, what can the government do to a 7 year that won't piss the entire country off (because people will not be pleased if this kid gets sent to juvie or whatever, which won't happen but I'm just proving a point)?

I am not sure what should happen to him, but I think something serious should. Maybe juvie until he can go to jail, then jail for life, not really sure. If this kid does not get punished the country will get pissed off also. No matter what action the government takes, a good portion of the country will be mad at the outcome.

[smalbikpro]

its not like he went to the people's houses and went at them with a flamethrower, so he doesn't deserve any punishment really, nor will he probably get one. i would imagine sooner or later you may see him on a news channel giving an apology speech.

[Brandon303]

its not like he went to the people's houses and went at them with a flamethrower, so he doesn't deserve any punishment really, nor will he probably get one. i would imagine sooner or later you may see him on a news channel giving an apology speech.
Totally agree. This kid will not get punished and will likey give (without being told to) a public apology.

[HCrum05]

I am not sure what should happen to him, but I think something serious should. Maybe juvie until he can go to jail, then jail for life, not really sure. If this kid does not get punished the country will get pissed off also. No matter what action the government takes, a good portion of the country will be mad at the outcome.

That's ridiculous. This is a little kid, and it was an accident. I guess if you have a car accident and people in the other car are killed, we should send you to jail even though it was an accident. Oh, and according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, the fire he started didn't kill anyone. It injured two firefighters and one civilian.

[pantherLax]

Oh, and according to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, the fire he started didn't kill anyone. It injured two firefighters and one civilian.

Can you bring up a link for that, because the other two links posted say otherwise.
And also, the fire he started could have caused another fire that killed people, which would put him at blame for the deaths.

[atm 1892]

I am not sure what should happen to him, but I think something serious should. Maybe juvie until he can go to jail, then jail for life, not really sure. If this kid does not get punished the country will get pissed off also. No matter what action the government takes, a good portion of the country will be mad at the outcome.

Please tell me you're kidding.

[Bretmac]

he shouldn't be punished i will admit to playing with fire when i was little....hes a seven year old kid have you guys ever seen a seven year old kid there probably at the most curious age in their life all the questions they ask, he was just curious and was testing his curiosity and a bad thing happend its a tragedy but what are you gonna do ruin the kids life i mean come on

[bonebrakr12]

So, you're saying that when you have kids you are going to supervise them 100% of their childhood, causing them to never get into mischief.

...Yeah right, good luck with that (and watch your kids hate you and want to rebel). We aren't talking about the "most hated family in the USA" here (the family who protests at soldier's funerals, etc..). These parents aren't inbred swine who aren't worthy to live in today's society, unlike the family mentioned above. This is your average Joe family. You should definately reconsider talking so much smack about the parents when no one even knows anything about them at all.

There is certainly no real proof that the parents are to blame here.

lighten up man.did you know that cali lived in well um Cali. He might have been in contact with the fire, not sayin he did but he might have. and dont blame the parents for all this. they didnt intend for their kid to kill and destroy people and places...unless theyre crazy freaks.

[cali feeder]

So, you're saying that when you have kids you are going to supervise them 100% of their childhood, causing them to never get into mischief.

...Yeah right, good luck with that (and watch your kids hate you and want to rebel). We aren't talking about the "most hated family in the USA" here (the family who protests at soldier's funerals, etc..). These parents aren't inbred swine who aren't worthy to live in today's society, unlike the family mentioned above. This is your average Joe family. You should definately reconsider talking so much smack about the parents when no one even knows anything about them at all.

There is certainly no real proof that the parents are to blame here.

I didn't say that anywhere. I just think anyone stupid enough to leave an unknowing, curious young child in a FOREST with means to make FIRE should be punished.

I said nothing about protecting them 100% of the time. But be smart and keep an eye on them when they've got a blatant opportunity to start a damn fire, that's what I'm saying. Don't blow what I said out of proportion next time.

EDIT: And yeah, I've got friends and relatives who lost homes.

[stinisonfire]

This is your average Joe family. You should definately reconsider talking so much smack about the parents when no one even knows anything about them at all.

There is certainly no real proof that the parents are to blame here.

Except they left a 7 year old kid w/ the ability to make a fire.. in a dry forest which has had problems w/ fire in the past.

[Brandon303]

Without reading much of the thread, I'm going to say charge the PARENTS for arson, 'cause they're damn idiots for leaving their kid unsupervised in a forest with a fire source.

Why are people like that allowed to breed...

I didn't say that anywhere. I just think anyone stupid enough to leave an unknowing, curious young child in a FOREST with means to make FIRE should be punished.

I said nothing about protecting them 100% of the time. But be smart and keep an eye on them when they've got a blatant opportunity to start a damn fire, that's what I'm saying. Don't blow what I said out of proportion next time.

EDIT: And yeah, I've got friends and relatives who lost homes.

So, what did you mean by this? You're saying the parents are to blame because they weren't supervising their child. You can't watch over your kid all the time. Children will make mistakes, children will do wrong, children will cause mischief. It's a shame that this kid's curiousity got way out of hand, but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes as no one is perfect. I'm pretty sure the parents didn't give their kid a lighter and sent him into the forest for the day. I'm quite positive if they knew their kid had something to start a fire with in the forest, they would have quickly gone to get him.

I think you're blowing what I've been saying out of proportion this time, because I've just been questioning what you've been saying.

And by the way, I'm sorry to hear you have friends/family that were affected by these fires, it is certainly a tragedy that will have changed many family's lives forever. Just to note, I am in no way attacking you, we just have conflicting opinions on this matter.

[cali feeder]

Yes, the parents are to blame because they weren't supervising the child in the middle of a forest with means to start a fire.

I'm not saying kids should be watched all the time, but in circumstances where the kid has potential to cause destruction like that, a close eye needs to be kept. That's like leaving a kid at home with an open fire pit or something like that. There's a good chance something won't happen, but a great enough chance to where it's something you just don't do.

Thanks, it is indeed a tragedy. I know you're not attacking me, and I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm just passionate about my opinion haha.

[Brandon303]

Yes, the parents are to blame because they weren't supervising the child in the middle of a forest with means to start a fire.

I'm not saying kids should be watched all the time, but in circumstances where the kid has potential to cause destruction like that, a close eye needs to be kept. That's like leaving a kid at home with an open fire pit or something like that. There's a good chance something won't happen, but a great enough chance to where it's something you just don't do.

Thanks, it is indeed a tragedy. I know you're not attacking me, and I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm just passionate about my opinion haha.
Well, I certainly can see where you're coming from and you do make valid points. All I'm saying is that it is possible that the parents aren't the people to lay ALL the blame on.

And I definately agree you have a little more "emotion/opinion" on this subject as it obviously has hit you a little harder living in Cali, then it's hit me living all the way up here in Ontario.

[Garor]

7 year olds don't have a full understanding of their actions. I volunteer and work with 7 year olds. Some of them don't get that if you hit someone, you hurt them. They don't have a full understanding of their actions.

And what, you take this 7 year old and do what? You lock him in jail? You put his family in jail? That doesn't make sense. It's a terrible tragedy, and sometimes you just need to step back, and do nothing.

[cali feeder]

Well, I certainly can see where you're coming from and you do make valid points. All I'm saying is that it is possible that the parents aren't the people to lay ALL the blame on.

And I definately agree you have a little more "emotion/opinion" on this subject as it obviously has hit you a little harder living in Cali, then it's hit me living all the way up here in Ontario.

Yes, there is the possibility that the parents aren't all to blame, and that's probably true.

I probably do have some more bias on the subject because of my location.

[faceofflax15]

Yes, the parents are to blame because they weren't supervising the child in the middle of a forest with means to start a fire.

I'm not saying kids should be watched all the time, but in circumstances where the kid has potential to cause destruction like that, a close eye needs to be kept. That's like leaving a kid at home with an open fire pit or something like that. There's a good chance something won't happen, but a great enough chance to where it's something you just don't do.

Thanks, it is indeed a tragedy. I know you're not attacking me, and I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I'm just passionate about my opinion haha.
Well, your saying that the parents should keep an eye like a hawk on their child not at all times, just while in the forest WITH means for a fire? You think they honestly knew that their age 7-tween child had a mean to start a fire? I'm yet to know of anyone who hasn't gotten in trouble for most ages under 14 for having them at all. Odds are the kid saw them, got bored, grabbed them while the parents were doing one of their thousands of jobs as parents and housemakers, climbed ontop of stuff to get it, and shoved it in his pocket never to be seen again..

[lax@wwu21]

I probably do have some more bias on the subject because of my location.

I was just going to point that out.

Just because he's seven, doesn't mean he is completely ignorant of his actions. I mean, seriously, who doesn't know matches light stuff on fire?

I won't be surprised if there is some sort of public apology (but is there really one needed?).

7 year olds don't have a full understanding of their actions. I volunteer and work with 7 year olds. Some of them don't get that if you hit someone, you hurt them. They don't have a full understanding of their actions.

Its called bad parenting. Sure, everyone has hit someone else and caused them pain. That is when the parent steps in and explains with words (or corporal punishment) that what they had done was wrong. Plain and simple. The society we have ended up living in has empowered kids more and more to the point where it is impossible to discipline unruly children without having to worry about getting slapped with an abusive parent charge.

I didn't like getting swats/spankings when I was a kid, so I didn't do what I had done again. My brother and I turned out fine. If you look back a few generations, kids were getting punished at school for back talk and such. That is absurd by today's "modern empowerment" standards.

Lack of discipline and instruction by parents has led to the poor social conditions we have now.

[Brandon303]

Its called bad parenting. Sure, everyone has hit someone else and caused them pain. That is when the parent steps in and explains with words (or corporal punishment) that what they had done was wrong. Plain and simple. The society we have ended up living in has empowered kids more and more to the point where it is impossible to discipline unruly children without having to worry about getting slapped with an abusive parent charge.

I didn't like getting swats/spankings when I was a kid, so I didn't do what I had done again. My brother and I turned out fine. If you look back a few generations, kids were getting punished at school for back talk and such. That is absurd by today's "modern empowerment" standards.

Lack of discipline and instruction by parents has led to the poor social conditions we have now.
I totally agree with how societies have become so anti-discipline in a way that really works. I mean like how many school shootings/bomb threats were there back in the 50s? None!

Now there is more than one bomb threat every week (somewhere in America, hell even up here in Canada) and a mass shooting like every year (there's a nasty trend starting here). I think it definately has to do with the teachers having the lack to do anything to punish their students. If they had the power they did back 60 years ago, bullies wouldn't be such a problem and half the crap (shootings, bomb threats and such) wouldn't have ever happened.

[Spartan]

I think both he and his parents should receive severe punishment. People get the death penalty for killing like 10 people, but he should not receive any penalty for killing thousands? It is their entire family's fault, they deserve to go to jail for life at the minimum.

your kidding me right? first only 7 people were killed out of the 24 fires, and second, his whole family going to jail far life is not happening.

[Spartan]

you guys might be missing the point..... it says in one article he was under 13, and in another that he was 7-10. I say that if he was 11 or older, he needs some sort of punishment.if he was 10, he needs to go and apologize. if younger, something less severe. There is nowhere that actually says that he is 7 years old for sure.

[Brandon303]

you guys might be missing the point..... it says in one article he was under 13, and in another that he was 7-10. I say that if he was 11 or older, he needs some sort of punishment.if he was 10, he needs to go and apologize. if younger, something less severe. There is nowhere that actually says that he is 7 years old for sure.
Yeah, I think half the problem is that no one has any straight facts about this.

[SwRLaX10D]

Last I checked, arson was illegal. Now, I know he's just a kid and he fessed up, but that doesn't let him off the hook. Far from it, as a matter of fact. Community service or juvie, I say

[Chas]

Just shoot him.

[faceofflax15]

Community service would be fair.

[MainLax28]

Last I checked, arson was illegal. Now, I know he's just a kid and he fessed up, but that doesn't let him off the hook. Far from it, as a matter of fact. Community service or juvie, I say

Last time I checked arson needed an intent, and was not an accident.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=arson

By the way the kid is 10 for all purposes from here on out. That is what they said on fox a couple nights back.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Last I checked, arson was illegal. Now, I know he's just a kid and he fessed up, but that doesn't let him off the hook. Far from it, as a matter of fact. Community service or juvie, I say

this isnt arson. arson is deliberate.

[SwRLaX10D]

my bad. It was late and I was tired when I posted. However, he should still recieve some form of punishment, as long as it just isnt a slap on the wrist or a warning. Im glad some people are agreeing with my community service idea