NFHS Language Clarification

[PlayOn]

Crosse Prohibitions

1.8.C Instructs that if, during a routine equipment inspection, a crosse has strings over 6 inches in length that the official first instructs the player to cut the strings and then if the player refuses a 1NR is enforced.

My question is if this happens during a requested stick check by the opposing team after a goal are we to first instruct the player to trim the strings and then if he refuses overturn the goal and enforce the penalty or is this penalty automatically enforce in this scenario?

Also does having strings over 6 inches in length require that a goal be removed in a situation like this (apposing team requests check after goal)?

I thought it does but now I'm confused.

[eme]

The easiest way to explain this is to understand that the 6" string procedure (request player to fix; if not fixed or it appears later 1 min NR) falls under Unsportsmanlike conduct and not under Illegal Crosse.
USC penalties have no bearing on goals being wiped off the board....except for adjusting a crosse after a goal and after the ref asks for the stick. See page 54 NFHS 2008 Rulebook 5-4-Situation D.
Without having seen the 2008 NCAA book, I am going to say the above is all true is well...in addition to even adjusting the crosse after a goal whether or not the official has asked to check it. I may be wrong on that...

[LaxRef]

I agree with eme here, at least for NFHS. I still want to see final NCAA wording before I draw any conclusions.

[PlayOn]

I know that you guys do have something to do with the writings of these rules so when you say that a rule is intended to be enforced under a particular area I take it seriously but in this case I can find nothing to indicate that this rule falls under USC guidelines. Perhaps if the playerd refused the to cut the strings would garner a USC however if I am performing a stick check after a goal, there is nothing to indicate that having strings over 6 inches in length is not an illegal stick.

On page 15 Section 8 under Crosse Prohibitions it is explicitly stated that "Any strings or leathers are limited to a hanging length of 6 inches."

Page 20 1.8.C under situations and rulings says that in this cirumstance the offending player will be instructed to cut the strings to proper length or face a 1 min NR.

On page 33 Section 9 Art 2 k, under Goal Not Counted, "When a players crosse is found to be illegal, or if the scoring player adjusts the crosse after the offcial requests it.... the goal will be over turned.

These are the only 3 areas in the rule book i could find that related to my orginal question in terms of enforcement.

Given that this issue falls under Crosse Prohibitions, is not addressed in any way in Unsportsmanlike Conduct section of personal fouls, and is enforced if not corrected with 1 min NR I would have to say that in a requested stick check situation after a goal is scored this is an illegal crosse and the goal is overturned. Then the kid can avoid additional penalty time if he cuts the strings.

This situation needs some authentic clarification because if a coach is telling me i should overturn a goal based on an illegal crosse which this is, how am i supposed to explain that it isn't when in fact there is no spot in the rulebook that says otherwise. Procedurally this creates potential for a massive snafu where neither team will fairly come out on top here especially if you say that the goal should only be overturned if the kid opts to not cut the strings thus invoking the Time Serving foul. You can't have a personal foul that gives the player the option to overturn it after it's been called because the act of playing with an illegal/unsportsmanlike crosse has already occurred which is the whole point of a stick check after the goal. With an illegal pocket, another correctable offense, the goal is still overturned in this situation but the crosse can come back in to the game if the problem is corrected. What is the difference? Rules cannot be flexible like this.

Does nobody else see the very serious ommision/loophole here?

[eme]

If you look at page 52 of the NFHS book you have the section called "Illegal Crosse." The first sentence says you cannot use a crosse that does not conform to specs. So, thus, page 20 1.8 Situation Ruling (c) backs this up when it says get the 7" strings off the field and you cannot use that stick until you fix the strings. Having "too long" strings is not an advantage; it really is a safety/annoyance issue (stepping on them, whipping in people's faces, getting caught in someone's helmet, etc.)
"Illegal crosse " page 52 goes on to declare that deep pockets and sticks altered to gain an advantage (short, narrow, long, pinched, cambered,huge ball stop, ball painted into strings, adjustable handle, etc.) get a 1 min. or 3-min penalty. And page 33 Goal Not Counted (k) says if a scoring player's stick is illegal then that goal is erased.

So... the 7" string is a crosse that does not meet specifications. It is not an illegal stick that was altered to gain an advantage.

Now, about that 1 min. NR penalty that is assessed if you tell the 7" stick to go and it reappears without a change. The stick is not the issue here but the unsportsmanlike act of bringing it back into the game. Hence that act falls under Page 53 USC Article 1 (c) "...or any other act considered unsportsmanlike by the officials."

So, your answer to the coach is: "Coach, the stick does not conform to specifications, and by rule we will make sure it does in the future. But it is not an illegal stick that offers an advantage. Goal stays on the board."

My other alternative is find me a sentence that I can insert into next year's rulebook that clears up the issue without such a long-winded answer.

[LaxRef]

My other alternative is find me a sentence that I can insert into next year's rulebook that clears up the issue without such a long-winded answer.

Change the start of Rule 1 Situation 1.8 from "During a routine equipment inspection at the opposing coach’s request," to "During an equipment inspection," so it covers all inspections.

[Woodenstick]

I think that there is a difference between an "illegal" stick and one that does not meet specifications.

Rule 5-4 states that "A player may not use a crosse that does not meet specifications. Use of an illegal crosse carries a 1 to 3 minute NR penalty." Note two different policies, one for not meeting specs, one for "illegal" sticks.

Under Rule 1-7, articles 3 and 4, ball stops and butt ends are required, but a crosse lacking these "shall not be considered illegal." Instead the sticks are just removed from the game until corrected.

The ruling under Rule 1-8 states that there is no penalty for using a crosse with long strings. Therefore, long strings do not make a stick "illegal" or else Rule 5-4 would mandate a 1 to 3 minute penalty. Such a stick is only in the "not meeting specs" category. The same is true for a crosse with no butt end or ball stop.

Goals come off the board only if the crosse is "illegal." So not butt end, no ball stop or long strings, you are not in the "illegal" category, you are in the not meeting specs category, so goal counts and no penalty.

Obviously, this follows eme's policy of focusing on sticks that are illegal and offering an advantage. But I think that the distinction is in the rules, if not always clearly expressed.

[eme]

I agree with what you have said except for ball stops. New this year is Page 13
1-6 Art. 2 "A ball stop is not required..."

[Woodenstick]

I agree with what you have said except for ball stops. New this year is Page 13
1-6 Art. 2 "A ball stop is not required..."

Oops! So other than the fact that ball stops are not required at all, I nailed it when I said ball stops come under the do not meet specs rule...:banghead:

[PlayOn]

Thanks guys this was very helpful.