Mitchell Report

[iplaylax22]

hey guys the mitchell report comes out tomorrow. for those of you who dont know it is a list that is gonna show up to 80 baseball players that allegedly used steroids. so who do you think will be on the list?>
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152573

[WIlax]

I figured this could be the "megathread" for this subject. Yeah its about baseball on a lacrosseforum..But its a big deal so..
Im watching the report and it seems like theyre just saying the exact same thing over and over again...steroids are bad, athletes use them. I dont see why they dont just say who used steroids and be done with it. We all know what steroids do and that people use them. And the claims that Roger Clemens used steroids didnt shock me at all, but I didnt see Andy Petitte coming.

[roycegracie47]

WIlax you were beaten to the punch but meh, merged for merging purposes..

I'm not surprised at all to see Clemens on the list either, but I wonder who else will be named. I think we all know the usual suspects will be named: Bonds, Sosa, Canseco, Macguire, Palmiero etc. Segui already admitted to use the other day, whether to spare himself if he were to show up on the list or not, but I expect to see his name. And Tejada's under the microscope as well so this may kill the O's trade to Astros.

[m2daRizzle]

the full report is on mlb.com if you want to read it.

[stinisonfire]

Ugh, it's a 400+ page report and pages 91-90something have some players mentioned. I'm too tired / lazy to read through it.

[m2daRizzle]

Ugh, it's a 400+ page report and pages 91-90something have some players mentioned. I'm too tired / lazy to read through it.

that was my thought exactly, i was hoping by me pointing that out someone else would read it and tell me what it says.

[stinisonfire]

haha I'm waiting for ESPN to say it

[Live4It]

Some things are better left unknown.

That's all I'm gonna say for now, I don't want to get into it.

[roycegracie47]

Even the table of contents doesn't really tell you where to look and at 409 pages that's a lot to skim through witht he page down button hoping to catch a name. On mlb.com one of the articles on the report's release throws out a lot of players who were named. I saw Paul Lo Duca on it who just signed a 1 year deal to the Nats.

[Live4It]

Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Fernado Vina, Paul LoDuca, Miguel Tejada, Mike Stanton, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, Mo Vaughn, Paul Lo Duca, Eric Gagne, Glenallen Hill, Gregg Zaun, Rondell White, Hal Morris, Todd Hundley, Larry Bigbie, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Mark McGwire, Matt Herges, Kevin Brown and Mike Lansing, Rafael Palmerio, Jason Giambi, Marvin Benard, Barry Bonds, Bobby Estalella, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Gary Sheffield, Randy Velarde, Jose Canseco, Albert Belle, David Justice, Troy Glaus, Gary Matthews, Jr., Rick Ankiel, Jay Gibbons, Mo Vaughn, Wally Joyner, Nook Logan, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Todd Pratt, Jack Cust, Matt Williams, John Rocker, Paul Byrd, F.P. Santangelo...

There's some of the names.

[ML_LAX09]

Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Fernado Vina, Paul LoDuca, Miguel Tejada, Mike Stanton, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, Mo Vaughn, Paul Lo Duca, Eric Gagne, Glenallen Hill, Gregg Zaun, Rondell White, Hal Morris, Todd Hundley, Larry Bigbie, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Mark McGwire, Matt Herges, Kevin Brown and Mike Lansing, Rafael Palmerio, Jason Giambi, Marvin Benard, Barry Bonds, Bobby Estalella, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Gary Sheffield, Randy Velarde, Jose Canseco, Albert Belle, David Justice, Troy Glaus, Gary Matthews, Jr., Rick Ankiel, Jay Gibbons, Mo Vaughn, Wally Joyner, Nook Logan, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Todd Pratt, Jack Cust, Matt Williams, John Rocker, Paul Byrd, F.P. Santangelo...

There's some of the names.

i thought you didn't want to get in it? :)

[laxmiddi307]

Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Fernado Vina, Paul LoDuca, Miguel Tejada, Mike Stanton, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, Mo Vaughn, Paul Lo Duca, Eric Gagne, Glenallen Hill, Gregg Zaun, Rondell White, Hal Morris, Todd Hundley, Larry Bigbie, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Mark McGwire, Matt Herges, Kevin Brown and Mike Lansing, Rafael Palmerio, Jason Giambi, Marvin Benard, Barry Bonds, Bobby Estalella, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Gary Sheffield, Randy Velarde, Jose Canseco, Albert Belle, David Justice, Troy Glaus, Gary Matthews, Jr., Rick Ankiel, Jay Gibbons, Mo Vaughn, Wally Joyner, Nook Logan, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Todd Pratt, Jack Cust, Matt Williams, John Rocker, Paul Byrd, F.P. Santangelo...

There's some of the names.

Im surprised at a few. Chuck Knoblauch is a big surpeise to me. He use to be my favorite player.

[hvlax26]

So far no Sammy Sosa, thats all I'm worried about.

[hvlacrosse311]

Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Fernado Vina, Paul LoDuca, Miguel Tejada, Mike Stanton, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, Mo Vaughn, Paul Lo Duca, Eric Gagne, Glenallen Hill, Gregg Zaun, Rondell White, Hal Morris, Todd Hundley, Larry Bigbie, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Mark McGwire, Matt Herges, Kevin Brown and Mike Lansing, Rafael Palmerio, Jason Giambi, Marvin Benard, Barry Bonds, Bobby Estalella, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Gary Sheffield, Randy Velarde, Jose Canseco, Albert Belle, David Justice, Troy Glaus, Gary Matthews, Jr., Rick Ankiel, Jay Gibbons, Mo Vaughn, Wally Joyner, Nook Logan, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Todd Pratt, Jack Cust, Matt Williams, John Rocker, Paul Byrd, F.P. Santangelo...

There's some of the names.

Hahah same name as one of my best friends, interesting

Im happy this happened and that all these people are being busted. It truly is Americas game now, i mean just look at all the lying and corruption. The only thing i dont get is why you would take steroids for a sport where half the time your standing around and then if your lucky someone will hit a ball that may come your way, just doesnt make sense to me.

[flyersrule9733]

wow some major names there

[lax21goalie2008]

I searched the entire report for Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz using ctrl+f, and neither of them showed up. I'm glad.

[Live4It]

i thought you didn't want to get in it? :)

I don't want to get in to my opinions, I just listed naems that were in the report.

Hahah same name as one of my best friends, interesting

Im happy this happened and that all these people are being busted. It truly is Americas game now, i mean just look at all the lying and corruption. The only thing i dont get is why you would take steroids for a sport where half the time your standing around and then if your lucky someone will hit a ball that may come your way, just doesnt make sense to me.
This is why I don't want to get in to it. I disagree with you 110%.

[stinisonfire]

Miguel Tejada, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Gary Sheffield, Albert Belle I could all see.. but Eric Gagne? That man looks like he hasn't seen a gym in years.

[lax21goalie2008]

Miguel Tejada, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Gary Sheffield, Albert Belle I could all see.. but Eric Gagne? That man looks like he hasn't seen a gym in years.

Roger Clemens looks like he hasn't seen a gym in years, as well.

[Brandon303]

Miguel Tejada, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Gary Sheffield, Albert Belle I could all see.. but Eric Gagne? That man looks like he hasn't seen a gym in years.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Damn, I was actually proud of the fact that he is Canadian but I have no respect for cheaters.

As long as Rick Nash (along with pretty much every former/upcoming Team Canada player for the NHL) aren't juicers, I'm happy.

[Brandon303]

Roger Clemens looks like he hasn't seen a gym in years, as well.
That's usually when you can tell that someone has stopped using the juice. I actually noticed that Eric Gagne has gotten alot smaller this season then he was the past couple seasons. Like he was never ripped but he was a big guy.

[Lax'N'Roll]

I searched the entire report for Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz using ctrl+f, and neither of them showed up. I'm glad.


That is because Mitchell works for the redsox

[Meade Lacrosse]

I don't want to get in to my opinions, I just listed naems that were in the report.


This is why I don't want to get in to it. I disagree with you 110%.

I respect your decision to stay out of this, but I'd be very curious to hear your opinion.

[mnlax9]

as long as no big name twins players are there im good

[iplaylax22]

I searched the entire report for Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz using ctrl+f, and neither of them showed up. I'm glad.

i couldnt agree more. those are the 2 guys i was really hoping wouldnt be on there

[lax21goalie2008]

That is because Mitchell works for the redsox

Then I guess you didn't see in the report about a Red Sox player having steroids in his car, and got pulled over by cops.

[cali feeder]

Here's all 89 players. Every team has at least one player on the list.

Manny Alexander
Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mark Bell
Gary Bennett
Marvin Bernard
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Ricky Bones
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Alex Cabrera
Jose Canseco
Ken Caminiti
Mike Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Paxton Crawford
Jack Cust
Chris Donnells
Brendan Donnely
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jay Gibbons
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
Wally Joyner
Mike Judd
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews Jr.
Mark McGwire
Cody McKay
Kent Merker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Armando Rios
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Derrick Turnbow
Ismael Valdez
Randy Velarde
Mo Vaughn
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodward
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

[OC Lax17]

The only people that floored me were Andy Pettitte and David Bell. Pettitte because I always liked him and he never seemed like a cheater. David Bell because he seems like such a wimp.

[roycegracie47]

I'm still a little surprised that Sammy Sosa's name is not on the list considering he was essentially lumped into the debate by association of Bonds & McGwire regarding the home run chase and the "steroid era." The report does indicate that more players who weren't named can and will be implicated as well, or it could be he was just being treated as guilty by association.

[iplaylax22]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646

excellent link: tells the name of each player, a little paragraph about each one and how there linked to steroids

[egrlax10]

rick ankiel is so disappointin. he was the feel good story of the baseball season. i went to a brewers game at miller park against the cardinals, and when ankiel went to bat, he got a standing ovation from the brewers fans. then to find out he had steroids, its so disappointin to find out that people you thought were great role models really werent.

[Live4It]

Stop calling them cheaters, these guys are A.Trying to make a living, and B.Still respectable people. With that many people on the list, it shouldn't even be considered cheating, at least one person for each team used it, cheating is when someone has an unfair advantage, well, if both teams use it, there's no advantage is there? And how about not naming any redsox? Yea, there definitly is some redsox that use.

This whole Mitchell report is total BS, it ruined people's reputations, and should never have had been released to the public. Some of these players are good people, alot of them do a good amount of charity work, aren't at all cocky players, they were just trying to help their teams, sure, it wasn't legal, but everyone makes mistakes, give them a break, and either way, tehy are still making contact with a 95 mph fastball, which isn't helped much by steroids, and the pitchers are still placing pitches perfectly for a strikeout. And if they think releaseing this report is gonna better baseball, guess what? It's not, it didn't help it by realesing these names, it hurt it. And there's also no 100% gurantee that all the people listed even used it.

[speedyMcFunland]

well im not gonna read it but does this mean jail time for any of these guys, being fired... does it mention consequences at all. Also I dont wanna say I totally agree with live4it cause they all technically cheated unfortunately they make their living playing a game that has rules and they broke them. However I do agree that releasing it to the public was not necessary, and it will not make for better baseball one of the things that saved baseball after the player strike in 94 was a huge increase in the home-runs being hit and the beginning of the steroid era.

[hvlacrosse311]

Stop calling them cheaters, these guys are A.Trying to make a living, and B.Still respectable people. With that many people on the list, it shouldn't even be considered cheating, at least one person for each team used it, cheating is when someone has an unfair advantage, well, if both teams use it, there's no advantage is there? And how about not naming any redsox? Yea, there definitly is some redsox that use.

This whole Mitchell report is total BS, it ruined people's reputations, and should never have had been released to the public. Some of these players are good people, alot of them do a good amount of charity work, aren't at all cocky players, they were just trying to help their teams, sure, it wasn't legal, but everyone makes mistakes, give them a break, and either way, tehy are still making contact with a 95 mph fastball, which isn't helped much by steroids, and the pitchers are still placing pitches perfectly for a strikeout. And if they think releaseing this report is gonna better baseball, guess what? It's not, it didn't help it by realesing these names, it hurt it. And there's also no 100% gurantee that all the people listed even used it.

So are drug dealers, but that doesnt mean that its right. Both are illegal, and it doesnt matter that every person on each team has used it. It violates Federal Law and MLB Policy, I think every person on here should be stripped of all their records and fined. I think its pitiful that this many players have used or are using steroids. It completely ruins the game and tarnishes the MLB forever, people will talk about this for years to come. I would have at least some respect for the players on that list if they had come out and admitted to using steroids and not denied it everytime they were asked about it. And how can you say theyre not cheaters? I really want to hear that one.

The only people i feel bad for is the family members and teammates of the men listed.

[ColtsLax]

Since it wasnt technically illegal at the time a lot of these guys did it, so i kind of give them a pass. But it doesnt matter, because the best player in baseball isnt on there, Derek Jeter, he is the symbol of baseball

[roycegracie47]

My main opinion of this is why compile the report and then say don't punish them? Part of the basis is to goad Selig into action as the report essentially outlines years of inaction and blind eyes to the matter. Cheating is cheating no matter how many are taking part. I can understand that some mayhave been taking certain things BEFORE they were made illegal and if the time frame shows they stopped that's one thing. But it's quite another to continue the use of illegal performance enhancers to "win the hearts of America." The whole idea of referring to this time as the Steroid Era not becuase of the tarnish but in a passing "that was how the game was played" mindset is what is putting the strain on people's respect for baseball. Some form of punishment needs to be meted out, and I can see it at least being needed on a case by case basis as far as what is done, what records will be affected (and they should be asterisked) and what money should be fined.

[faceofflax15]

Stop calling them cheaters, these guys are A.Trying to make a living, and B.Still respectable people. With that many people on the list, it shouldn't even be considered cheating, at least one person for each team used it, cheating is when someone has an unfair advantage, well, if both teams use it, there's no advantage is there? And how about not naming any redsox? Yea, there definitly is some redsox that use.

This whole Mitchell report is total BS, it ruined people's reputations, and should never have had been released to the public. Some of these players are good people, alot of them do a good amount of charity work, aren't at all cocky players, they were just trying to help their teams, sure, it wasn't legal, but everyone makes mistakes, give them a break, and either way, tehy are still making contact with a 95 mph fastball, which isn't helped much by steroids, and the pitchers are still placing pitches perfectly for a strikeout. And if they think releaseing this report is gonna better baseball, guess what? It's not, it didn't help it by realesing these names, it hurt it. And there's also no 100% gurantee that all the people listed even used it.

That is the single best post I have ever read. I applaud you.


I was surprised A-Rod wasn't on there.

Now on one hand, I understand why they are trying to eliminate 'roids from the games, but what they seem to fail to understand is that those same "roids that are supposedly ruining the game," only cause players to become better, creating for a better, more exciting game. You can't try to tell me that the home-run race between sosa and McGuire and then Bonds breaking that, wasn't exciting and brought fans in the seats, which inevitably helped our economy..?

And another point on the same hand, when you are paying 100 bucks for a ticket, I don't care if they take supplements that make them grow wings, I want to be entertained...

[Live4It]

So are drug dealers, but that doesnt mean that its right. Both are illegal, and it doesnt matter that every person on each team has used it. It violates Federal Law and MLB Policy, I think every person on here should be stripped of all their records and fined. I think its pitiful that this many players have used or are using steroids. It completely ruins the game and tarnishes the MLB forever, people will talk about this for years to come. I would have at least some respect for the players on that list if they had come out and admitted to using steroids and not denied it everytime they were asked about it. And how can you say theyre not cheaters? I really want to hear that one.

The only people i feel bad for is the family members and teammates of the men listed.

A lot of these guys used HGH, at the time most of these people did it, it wasn't against MLB rules. I'm gonna use Andy Pettitte as an example, since he realesed a statement this morning, he used HGH 2 times, twice, in 2002, to help him recover from an injury, not to improve performance, but to get back to help his team, he did two days, and felt it was wrong, even though it wasn't against the rules, he thought it felt wrong and stopped, and his stats were nearly identical that season before and after the alleged use. So you're saying that he should be stripped of all his records, stats, and everything he's done, all his great postseason games, most of them before 2002, and be punished?

Do you even follow baseball, or let alone watch it? I have strong doubts that you do.

[Wooks]

Jose Guillen? Noooooo!

If A-rod was on there, I would've laughed and danced simultaneously. If Ken Griffey or the Big Unit was on there, I would have cried.

Guess which team I like?

[neuqualax5]

I'm still a little surprised that Sammy Sosa's name is not on the list considering he was essentially lumped into the debate by association of Bonds & McGwire regarding the home run chase and the "steroid era." The report does indicate that more players who weren't named can and will be implicated as well, or it could be he was just being treated as guilty by association.

sosa's still a cheater. no one mistakes a corked bat for a real bat.
even though im a die-hard chi sox fan, i kind of expected frank thomas to be in there. pretty shocked he wasnt.

[cali feeder]

he used HGH 2 times, twice, in 2002, You know who cheated LESS than twice but still got fined? The Patriots...

So you're saying this one should be excused? The Patriots "cheated" once and couldn't even take advantage of the film. These guys did it over years, and definitely benefitted from it. Why shouldn't they be punished?

My point is that they cheated, no matter how you look at it. So what if Pettitte was trying to help his team by recovering quicker? Most other players had to recover from injury the LEGAL way. This isn't something where you can "make a mistake". If I socked a guy in the face in the middle of a lax game and took him out for the rest of the game, thus giving us an advantage, does that count as just a mistake? No. You can't do that once, or 100 times.

"roids that are supposedly ruining the game,"Ruins the honesty and integrity of the game. These select few give themselves an illegal advantage over every player in the league, and look what they do? They set records with it. Tell me how thats fair, and tell me how that isn't cheating every other player out of a shot at the record books, fame, etc.

These fools deserve to get their reputation ruined. They cheated their way into the record books and into the hearts of millions of people. Do you want your kid saying, "Daddy, give me steroids so I can be amazing like Barry Bonds!" No, you don't.

And yes, every person on this list used. Mitchell isn't dumb enough to risk millions of dollars going around accusing people like that. If they really didn't, they'd immediately take him to court and sue him, and I doubt Mitchell wants that. The real question is who isn't on that list that used.

[faceofflax15]

You know who cheated LESS than twice but still got fined? The Patriots...

So you're saying this one should be excused? The Patriots "cheated" once and couldn't even take advantage of the film. These guys did it over years, and definitely benefitted from it. Why shouldn't they be punished?

My point is that they cheated, no matter how you look at it. So what if Pettitte was trying to help his team by recovering quicker? Most other players had to recover from injury the LEGAL way. This isn't something where you can "make a mistake". If I socked a guy in the face in the middle of a lax game and took him out for the rest of the game, thus giving us an advantage, does that count as just a mistake? No. You can't do that once, or 100 times.

Ruins the honesty and integrity of the game. These select few give themselves an illegal advantage over every player in the league, and look what they do? They set records with it. Tell me how thats fair, and tell me how that isn't cheating every other player out of a shot at the record books, fame, etc.

These fools deserve to get their reputation ruined. They cheated their way into the record books and into the hearts of millions of people. Do you want your kid saying, "Daddy, give me steroids so I can be amazing like Barry Bonds!" No, you don't.

And yes, every person on this list used. Mitchell isn't dumb enough to risk millions of dollars going around accusing people like that. If they really didn't, they'd immediately take him to court and sue him, and I doubt Mitchell wants that. The real question is who isn't on that list that used.
First, not all of those players set records.. 5 have set records out out 89. If 'roids automatically make you break records like you say, why didn't all 89 of them break records?
I'm sure lots of them will sue MLB and Mitchell.



And you, personally can't attack Pettite for you arguments, what he did, at the time, was in no way illegal or cheating.

[cali feeder]

First, not all of those players set records.. 5 have set records out out 89.And....? 5 different players could have their names in the record book.

If 'roids automatically make you break records like you say, why didn't all 89 of them break records?"They", meaning those who set records. Even those who didn't were still considered very good players.

I'm sure lots of them will sue MLB and Mitchell.Any player who is unfairly on that list would have IMMEDIATELY come out and said it and began the legal process. No logical reason not to.

And you, personally can't attack Pettite for you arguments, what he did, at the time, was in no way illegal or cheating. How? HGH wasn't legal, was it? If it was, wouldn't every other player have used it too?

Anyways...HGH is not approved for any PED use, nor for injury recovery.And here's my source for that...http://www.ajmc.com/files/articlefiles/A102_oct04IntroS416.pdf

I fail to see your argument here.

[faceofflax15]

And....? 5 different players could have their names in the record book.

"They", meaning those who set records. Even those who didn't were still considered very good players.

Any player who is unfairly on that list would have IMMEDIATELY come out and said it and began the legal process. No logical reason not to.

How? HGH wasn't legal, was it? If it was, wouldn't every other player have used it too?

Anyways...And here's my source for that...http://www.ajmc.com/files/articlefiles/A102_oct04IntroS416.pdf

I fail to see your argument here.

HGH was not banned by the MLB at the time. A lot of those players were not considered very good players at all.. Maybe 15 were very notable players.

[cali feeder]

HGH was not banned by the MLB at the time. A lot of those players were not considered very good players at all.. Maybe 15 were very notable players. So it wasn't banned at the time. Then why isn't he suing his arse off and why isn't Mitchell running for cover? There's legitimate reason behind the accusation.

Doesn't matter who was good and who wasn't. They cheated. Lets say the average running back of a D2 college football team took steroids and still wasn't that good. Do we let him off the hook, because he wasn't that good, not paving any new records, nor boosting his team to victory? No, you prosecute (I use that term loosely) him because he cheated, and did something illegal.

[faceofflax15]

So it wasn't banned at the time. Then why isn't he suing his arse off and why isn't Mitchell running for cover? There's legitimate reason behind the accusation.

Doesn't matter who was good and who wasn't. They cheated. Lets say the average running back of a D2 college football team took steroids and still wasn't that good. Do we let him off the hook, because he wasn't that good, not paving any new records, nor boosting his team to victory? No, you prosecute (I use that term loosely) him because he cheated, and did something illegal.

Why isn't he sueing? He has no grounds to sue.. Mitchell said he used HGH, Pettite used HGH, which wasn't banned..






I honestly, don't understand why you care to prosecute players who use performance enhancing drugs, in the end, regardless of the performance enhancments, it's still who's more athletic and who wants it more.

[cjm3113]

I honestly, don't understand why you care to prosecute players who use performance enhancing drugs, in the end, regardless of the performance enhancments, it's still who's more athletic and who wants it more.

That's like saying Bonds would have set the home run record even if he didn't take performance enhancing drugs because he wanted it more..

[iplaylax22]

You know who cheated LESS than twice but still got fined? The Patriots...

So you're saying this one should be excused? The Patriots "cheated" once and couldn't even take advantage of the film. These guys did it over years, and definitely benefitted from it. Why shouldn't they be punished?

My point is that they cheated, no matter how you look at it. So what if Pettitte was trying to help his team by recovering quicker? Most other players had to recover from injury the LEGAL way. This isn't something where you can "make a mistake". If I socked a guy in the face in the middle of a lax game and took him out for the rest of the game, thus giving us an advantage, does that count as just a mistake? No. You can't do that once, or 100 times.

Ruins the honesty and integrity of the game. These select few give themselves an illegal advantage over every player in the league, and look what they do? They set records with it. Tell me how thats fair, and tell me how that isn't cheating every other player out of a shot at the record books, fame, etc.

These fools deserve to get their reputation ruined. They cheated their way into the record books and into the hearts of millions of people. Do you want your kid saying, "Daddy, give me steroids so I can be amazing like Barry Bonds!" No, you don't.

And yes, every person on this list used. Mitchell isn't dumb enough to risk millions of dollars going around accusing people like that. If they really didn't, they'd immediately take him to court and sue him, and I doubt Mitchell wants that. The real question is who isn't on that list that used.

Couldn't take advantage of it? There undefeated I think they take advantage of everything they can

[cali feeder]

Couldn't take advantage of it? There undefeated I think they take advantage of everything they can You do realize they confiscated the film before they even got a chance to use it...Nice one.

He has no grounds to sue..Libel and false light. Perfect grounds to sue, if I'm not mistaken.

[iplaylax22]

You do realize they confiscated the film before they even got a chance to use it...Nice one.

Libel and false light. Perfect grounds to sue, if I'm not mistaken.

wow.. im an idiot i totally forgot... You're right