View Full Version : Tardy Substitutions
pboyd
12-28-2007, 07:53 AM
Following a time serving penalty on Team B - Team B substitutes MDD and Team A substitutes their EMO while the clock is stopped. Both Teams appear ready to play after 20-secs as your beeper goes off. You restart play and then notice that Team A's 10th player was not on the field but comes out of the table area shortly after play has started. What is the call?
LaxRef
12-28-2007, 12:23 PM
NFHS rules:
Technically, there was a foul and you didn't throw your flag. You now face the same problem you always face when you're slow to judge: do you let it go or correct your error. Probably the correct thing is a quick whistle, explain the delay of game on Team A, and award to team B. You could also call it a delayed sub on Team A, which might be easier to sell.
If you decide to pass on the call and A1 runs in unguarded and makes a play, you've really screwed over Team B.
NCAA:
Despite being asked, they haven't come out and said what to do when the beeper goes off and a team has too few players on the field. I think you treat it as any other NCAA delayed sub: silent play-on, with a turnover if Team A gains an advantage.
But I think it would be nicer if NCAA and NFHS would agree on this (and about 110 other things).
Directive noted on COC Newsletter Jan. 25, 2004 from Walt Munze:
" On horns, use your beeper and then penalize the team that is not ready when the beeper goes off. On a special substitution (on the fly during play): It's a silent play-on (arm in air) unless the late sub immediately participates in play (4-23 AR 105 in 2007 book)."
This silent play-on is used only during the run of play when a guy comes off and then his sub delays his entrance. As noted, procedure after a horn is different and even after the play resumes after a horn it is different in that no one is running off and being subbed for late...the guy is simply coming in late. Thus, it's a flag or a whistle at that point. Best bet to avoid this is to count the players and hold the subs up until the beeper goes off and then penalize immediately.
This directive and the NFHS explicit ruling on this (new this year) make NCAA-NFHS in agreement.
pboyd
12-28-2007, 01:50 PM
New NFHS Case 4.22.B makes this clear but it now requires us to track/count players on all restarts. What happened to Advantage/Disadvantage? Seems like Team A has already disadvantaged themselves by starting with only 9 players so now we penalize them with lose of possession even though their 10th player comes on immediately after whistle.
Slightly Different Scenario:Team A's 10th player steps off immediately after whistle sounds and sub momentarily delays entry - no call.
Several points about new NFHS case 4.22.B
1. Yes, after a horn, ESPECIALLY AFTER A HORN ON A PENALTY, you should count players. What better way to occupy your time for 20 seconds with your arms in the air? Keep officiating during dead balls.
2. By rule, the team has 20 seconds to sub and that is why we use a beeper.
If they are allowed 22 seconds or 26 seconds or 35 seconds to do the subbing that, by rule, they are allowed 20 seconds to do...then why wear and use a beeper at all?
3. The other team has set up their attack or their defense based on the players on the field and they have had several seconds of "down time" to assess what is in front of them. Play restarts and they react to the players out there.
A late arriving player for the other team disrupts the plan that the team had collectively or an individual player had based on what is in front of them/him
4. An astute official can save himself some grief by flipping his beeper off if he realizes that "time is getting close" and that last sub is just about entering anyway. It's what we do all the time on FOs when a player races slightly late across the field to fill that unfilled wing spot.
Your Slightly Different Scenario is indeed slightly different. It is a run-of-play situation. The 10 th guy is on the field where he should be and during play he subs off and his replacement momentarily delays entry. By 4.23 Rule we have a silent play on, etc.
LaxRef
12-28-2007, 05:44 PM
Your Slightly Different Scenario is indeed slightly different. It is a run-of-play situation. The 10 th guy is on the field where he should be and during play he subs off and his replacement momentarily delays entry. By 4.23 Rule we have a silent play on, etc.
Isn't "silent play on" an NCAA-only concept? I don't recall seeing that in NFHS.
At the present time, silent play-on is an NCAA-only concept.
PlayOn
12-30-2007, 12:25 PM
New NFHS Case 4.22.B makes this clear but it now requires us to track/count players on all restarts. What happened to Advantage/Disadvantage? Seems like Team A has already disadvantaged themselves by starting with only 9 players so now we penalize them with lose of possession even though their 10th player comes on immediately after whistle.
Slightly Different Scenario:Team A's 10th player steps off immediately after whistle sounds and sub momentarily delays entry - no call.
I was faced with this last year and made the wrong call but I'll be honest the other coach was not doing anything to help his case (he complained about every call i made the whole game and now this year he doesn't coach anymore because of his issues). Needless to say by delaying substitution the advantage is gained by giving the late team the ability to sneak a guy in late and come up behind a player with possession and set a pick or strip him. Since the offended player was never aware that the late sub was involved in the play an unfair advantage has been gained.