Throwing Crosse

[pboyd]

Goalkeeper B1 has clearing pass intercepted by A1. A1 sees open goal and shoots - B1 throws his crosse at the ball. What is the call? Is it different for NCAA and NFHS?

[eme]

I was just noting the same thing today in the NCAA 2008 under Illegal Pcocedure. There, merely throwing the crosse, is IP. But then there's a sentence about it being USC if you throw it at the ball or at another player.
My first thought was "why isn't this in the USC section?" After some thought, I decided that "any act considered unsportsmanlike" in the USC section covered it

NFHS just has the throwing of the crosse being IP. No mention of an USC.
But that doesn't prevent you from going to USC in the scenario you have above. I certainly would do so. And remember to withhold your whistle
on such a play even though your first reaction is to blow it...the ball may keep bouncing into the goal.

[stripes182]

Goalkeeper B1 has clearing pass intercepted by A1. A1 sees open goal and shoots - B1 throws his crosse at the ball. What is the call? Is it different for NCAA and NFHS?

Here goes my snap judgment:

The crosse makes contact with ball/player/anything else that interferes with the play = flag down, USC when ball is dead (there is the Fed./NCAA difference for me).

The crosse flies through the air harmlessly, with no impact on the play = Play on, goal counts or ball awarded to Team A outside the box (depends on whether the shooter can hit the net).

It seems like that would be the fair call, and it's operating within the rules to the point that I could sell it to the coaches/my assignor. Any questions, comments or criticisms?

[eme]

B1 is not just throwing his crosse off the field or to a teammate or in frustration against his bench, whatever....
he is throwing the crosse at the ball in the attempt to prevent a goal. Whether the crosse hits the ball is irrelevant...it's USC (explicit in NCAA rules) and implicit in NFHS under ("any act considered unsportsmanlike...")

[3rdPersonPlural]

B1 is ....throwing the crosse at the ball in the attempt to prevent a goal. Whether the crosse hits the ball is irrelevant...it's USC .....implicit in NFHS under ("any act considered unsportsmanlike...")

Perhaps we have different internal definitions of USC. If the keeper throws the stick and misses by a mile, I'd call Illegal Procedure. Tech foul wiped out by the goal, or 30 seconds if the guy misses.

Has anybody addressed the possibility that the stick connects and deflects the shot? I'd call a USC there, but if the EMO doesn't manage to score, I'd still feel sort of unbalanced.

Thoughts?

[Woodenstick]

I mostly agree with eme. A serious attempt to stop a ball by throwing the stick should be USC even if it misses, as this is a serious violation of sportsmanship that must be stomped on to prevent reoccurance. A successful stop of a ball entering the net could be a flagrent (ejection) foul to balance the goal prevented, especially in a critical point in the game. If the score was 15-0 and the stick thrown out of fustration, then I would think a 2 minute USC. As you stated, a 1 minute USC isn't compensation for a lost goal.

[PlayOn]

You can't throw your stick ever in NFHS. It's dangerous play and definitely a USC. Especially if you are throwing it straight up in the air.

If a goalie threw his stick in front of the goal to prevent a shot from going in and it actually worked I think this would still be illegal because the player is essentially playing without a crosse. You cannot be involved in a play if you do not have possession of your stick. Although technically the crosse is playing without a player but I digress.

[wolfenburg]

Under ILF Rules it is always an USC foul if any player throws his Stik (no matter what reason for). (exaption, an broken Stick is not a Stick and you may remove it from the game).

What I was thinking of, weather it is USC if a player outside the field throws his stick to prevent a ball going far far away.

[3rdPersonPlural]

You know, I've never had a player throw a stick before. I revise my estimate. USC all the way.

Dunno what I was thinkin'

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

Been enjoying my time off from work, and have been avoiding eme's and LR's thinking questions....

Had a stick launch straight up in the air in a HS varsity game last spring. It was across the field from me in the attack zone, so I could not tell if the stick was thrown on purpose to block the ball (which was being passed to the clump of 6 players where the stick went up and a player was falling back). Coach on the sideline behind me starting to complain and ask for at least an IP. I did not call it right away since the stick may have went up due to a collision between the many players going for the ball. My partner came over and from his angle also felt it was accidental, so we did not call a penalty on this.

Bottom line for me, if the player purposely throws the crosse at the ball, then at least IP and a serious consideration for USC.

[eme]

2008 NFHS Rules page 76 7.9 Situation C. Explicit call is USC

2008 NCAA Rules page 91 AR 39. Explicit call is USC

[CardinalPuff]

throwing stick in the air: IP

if it comes down: USC

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

USC it is then by the rules!

Does the altitude matter? Certainly attitude does!

[lehighvalleylax]

2008 NFHS Rules page 76 7.9 Situation C. Explicit call is USC

2008 NCAA Rules page 91 AR 39. Explicit call is USC

NFHS

Two actions discussed in this situation. Discusses goalkeeper fouling players OR throwing his crosse.

Throwing crosse is SPECIFICALLY mentioned as a TECHNICAL FOUL on page 58 5-2-b-1 - Illegal actions with a crosse - A player shall not:
Throw his crosse under any circumstances.

[3rdPersonPlural]

I think that throwing the crosse in an effort to make a play is USC, and throwing it in frustration, as part of a celebration, or to another player is a technical.

But I'm not certain.

[lehighvalleylax]

I think that throwing the crosse in an effort to make a play is USC, and throwing it in frustration, as part of a celebration, or to another player is a technical.

But I'm not certain.

for NFHS

Nowhere in the personal foul section does it discuss throwing your crosse, only under IP - technical fouls. The only possible USC foul would be if it was done repeatedly.

[3rdPersonPlural]

for NFHS

Nowhere in the personal foul section does it discuss throwing your crosse, only under IP - technical fouls. The only possible USC foul would be if it was done repeatedly.

If you have the 2008 NFHS book, see page 76 7.9 Situation C. Explicit call is USC.

In the 2007 rule book, it's page 76, 7.9 Situation C

[laxfan224]

According to NCAA 6.6.b.1 (Illegal Procedure section) it says

b. Illegal actions with crosse - A player shall not :
1 . Throw his crosse. Throwing his crosse at the ball or another player shall be deemed unsportsmanlike conduct.

In the unsportsmanlike conduct section it does not state anything about a thrown crosse. So are we saying that because it states in the illegal procedure section that its USC that we call it an USC?

I am not debating it. I would call it an USC because it creates an unsafe situation.

[eme]

There are many things not listed in the USC section. Picking up a corner pylon and throwing it another player is not listed, etc.
In addition, there are other rules in the book where USC is called for that are not listed explicitly in the USC section of the book. For example, page 50 AR 82 if a goalie intentionally tells a ref his equipment is broken (when it isn't), it's a 2-minute USC.
In short, the list of USC fouls listed in the book under the USC section is NOT all-inclusive. It couldn't possibly be.
You have cited the proper rule in NCAA. Throwing the crosse is IP. Throwing the crosse AT the ball or another player is USC.

[laxfan224]

Thanks!

Nothing is better than watching bowl games and reading/highlighting in my 2008 rules book.

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

Welcome, LF224!

[stripes182]

There are many things not listed in the USC section. Picking up a corner pylon and throwing it another player is not listed, etc.
Is this an example from prior experience, or have some of my classmates leaked the happenings of my last alumni game to the officials' community? I also took a shot at Happy Gilmore's record, but I was tackled before I could get the second skate off...

You have cited the proper rule in NCAA. Throwing the crosse is IP. Throwing the crosse AT the ball or another player is USC.

I see the difference, now. My "snap judgment" was made in the spirit of keeping the game moving. I suppose my quest for eternal flow will see a few more whistles along the way. Trying to prevent a goal by throwing the cross is unsportsmanlike, and I agree it should be penalized as such.
For all of you D-1'ers, it's thirty-one days until Boston. I get the idea that these rules puzzles are going to be very handy to keep up on in the next six weeks!