Pinch for Defense

[Lax4life528]

Why do so many defensemen like unpinched heads like the X2 or the proton. I mean I don't see the point of an unpinched head unless u need help catching the ball. I just don't understand? I personally prefer offensive heads that are stiff for defense. Some people say that unpinched heads have a better chance of batting down or intercepting balls, but in reality, the difference between a head like the X2 and the primer is only like half an inch. So I believe that if u can intercept a ball with an X2, u can probably do it with a primer too. What do u guys think?

[ccslax6]

What offensive head is stiffer than a Ripper?

[takin me down]

the half an inch can make a diference. also usaully pinched heads warp faster

[Titanoh]

Why use a pinched head? Those things warp like a [no profanity] after a solid check.

[jclax23]

the only thing a unpinched head can help you with is groundballs and it doesnt even help that much

[3rdPersonPlural]

the only thing a unpinched head can help you with is groundballs and it doesnt even help that much

C'mon! I'd use a goalie head on D if they let me. In games I'll knock down or deflect more feeds and passes than catch passes thrown to me, and any defenseman who finds himself dodging (which is where pinched heads shine) is a few seconds away from getting pwned.

Defensemen get passes from keepers when they are wide open, pick up ground balls, and dump to shorties rather than get into a tight spot.

Defenders need a large floppy pocket in a large stiff head. It's as simple as that.

[Titanoh]

^Thank you for putting it into words 3PP

[defense4life13]

C'mon! I'd use a goalie head on D if they let me. In games I'll knock down or deflect more feeds and passes than catch passes thrown to me, and any defenseman who finds himself dodging (which is where pinched heads shine) is a few seconds away from getting pwned.

Defensemen get passes from keepers when they are wide open, pick up ground balls, and dump to shorties rather than get into a tight spot.

Defenders need a large floppy pocket in a large stiff head. It's as simple as that.


well put^^^

[D4LIFE]

hey if a defenseman can dodge then good for them, and a pinched head makes it easier. but if u string it right a X2 or such will hold just fine for dodges, i have used X2 and i've used a helix. only reason i see X2 any better is it doesn't break.

[Crimdad]

I think you have to take the manufacturer into consdieration, smaller pinched heads are usually lighter and more prone to warping and pinching. The bigger heads are stiffer and more durable and you don't want your head bending when you throw a light poke check.

[senorlax17]

I'd have to say that it is definitely the stiffness of the head. If there was a head that was pretty pinched, but still really stiff, I would buy it. The fact is there are just not as many pinched heads that are as stiff as an X2 or Proton or something like that.

[Lax4life528]

In games I'll knock down or deflect more feeds and passes than catch passes thrown to me.

then get against a wall and learn how to catch

[Chas]

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

[RaiderLax17]

I'd have to say that it is definitely the stiffness of the head. If there was a head that was pretty pinched, but still really stiff, I would buy it. The fact is there are just not as many pinched heads that are as stiff as an X2 or Proton or something like that.

The Clutch, Franchise, Harrow Turret, and Revo Pro, are all perfect examples of very stiff and pinched heads.

[eaglelax4]

a pinched, yet stiff head does occur, but its a rare occurance
but think about it from the offenses point of view: would you like a defense man to have a weaker head? YES, the head basically softens the blow of the check that way, making the offense-man go unphased, so you gotta hit stick
with a stiffer head, even if you dont hit stick, it still ruffles their feathers

[Lax4life528]

a pinched, yet stiff head does occur, but its a rare occurance
but think about it from the offenses point of view: would you like a defense man to have a weaker head? YES, the head basically softens the blow of the check that way, making the offense-man go unphased, so you gotta hit stick
with a stiffer head, even if you dont hit stick, it still ruffles their feathers

the clutch, the franchise, the revo pro are very stiff and very pinched

[Eagle Middie]

Its all preferance.

Not that I wouldnt want a brine clutch or a helix on my pole, but I can get a brine ripper for 75% less with the same stiffness and even stiffer. Plus have it forever. And it meets 09 specs. I dont think D men realy care. As long as it works and powers through all the abuse we put it through. Why spend $$$ when you are going to absolutely destroy the thing. The cheapos happen to be wide.

I mean its a stupid pinch. Put some extra time on the stick and you wont need the "improved acuracey and ball control of a "narrow" throat"

[j45k]

defensemen throw a lot of checks, and that means a lot of wear on the head. the wider the head is, the less likely it is to warp, and a wide head is usually more stiff. also, even 1/4 or 1/2 an inch matters. it just gives you more of a chance to pick a pass off. its a game of inches.

[crazylax13]

lax4life do u play D or longpole mid because a half inch does matter a lot. That half inch could seperate a goal from a batted down pass and also i found that comment about learning to catch... if you do play with a longpole you'll understand and if you do and you can catch well great for you but some people just like using a wide head cause it's easier so let it be it comes down to preferance. i like the wider heads because my head does warp so a less stiff head wont fit the bill and the more pinch head would probably end up illeagle half way through the year

[cfranks]

i like to carry it up past midline but i also was a kick returner in football so i got a lil shake and bake

[3rdPersonPlural]

then get against a wall and learn how to catch

Lord, child, I'll catch just about anything thrown TO me, but defenders are usually most active when the other team has the ball and passes are intended to go to someone else.

Next time you play a game, count how many times you took a swipe at a pass not intended for you, and how many times you caught a nice clean pass thrown TO you.

My guess is that it will be 10 or 20 to 1. That argues for a bigger butterfly net.

I think that it was EagleLax who noted that we play a game of inches. I tip a lot of passes and feeds ((thrown by and to the other team) because I watch my opponent's eyes. A bigger mesh surface is better than a smaller one in this case.

Now, let's stipulate that a pinched head on a shorty shaft is the optimal tool for getting INTO tight spots, and ANYTHING on a long pole is a disaster waiting to happen. OK. So putting a pinched attack head onto a d-pole is sort of like putting a gymkhana chassis under a Semi Tractor. The whole is way less than the sum of the parts, and it simply don't work.

Defensemen run OUT of trouble, not into it. There is no reason ever for a pole to negotiate his way through a double team. A defender's stick requirements are to (1)catch everything thrown to him, (2) catch some stuff thrown past him, (3) get every ground ball on the first pass, and (4) be able to make an accurate pass to an open shortie as soon as possible.

That's about it. Note that dodging into and through tight spots is not part of the program. So why do you want to compromise 1, 2, and 3 to have the fantasy that wicked dodges are part of your mission.

Go play middie.

[bonebrakr12]

i am a lsm, dman, and d mid( barely but if needed). i use a proton power and a helix...pinch comes in handy when im dodging, showing off my stick. my next head is going to be the ecxalibur, because 3pp just convinced me lol, not really but in a small way.

[SuperDuper46]

The Clutch, Franchise, Harrow Turret, and Revo Pro, are all perfect examples of very stiff and pinched heads.

exactly and ive used both of them in games and ive used heads like a av8 and the new xcalibur and i prefer using the pinched heads and have nocked down just as many passes and got more goals with the pinched ones which can change the momentum of a game. i personally cant stand playing with unpinched heads on d and i think they even put your at a dissadvantage

[RaiderLax17]

i am a lsm, dman, and d mid( barely but if needed). i use a proton power and a helix...pinch comes in handy when im dodging.

I'm with you here. I used a G-Force with rubber for a year before that broke (that was my favorite head ever). Now, I've got a G-Force with no rubber, a Revo Pro, and a Harrow Turret. It helps that I've got the hand-eye coordination from playing goalie in hockey for years, but I've got the most blocked passes, by far, on my team.

[spike191]

I play LSM for my team, i have used pinched heads for a while. Many on my team are warrior junkies who use pinched heads, and my coach just gave a D-man a P2 because he warped his evo pro. This is Highschool varsity, poles don't do that much dodgeing. In my opinion i carry the ball alot more then the other poles, but if i didn't i would be useing something wider. the pinch has very few good atributes.

[tkdlaxer]

I don't know how relevant it is since I'm an attackman, but I might help throw this into perspective. I have been using an original Edge for attack. The only pinch that is on it is one to take out a reverse flair it came with.

Before that I had been using a clutch, I personally think it makes catching and intercepting things much easier, not to mention ground balls (this thing is a vacuum). Plus it has the same ball control my clutch had, it is just wider; much wider.

The way I see it if I can have the same hold with more surface area, why not. I'd consider myself good with stick skills, catching, throwing and other basic mechanics. I'd also consider myself a good stringer. Its mostly the pocket that gives you ball control and hold, so why not use a wide head to get more umph from your interceptions, ground balls, catches and checks.

Oh and 3PP with a real nice pocket theres no reason a wide head can't dodge just as well as a pinched one, which in my mind gives even more reason to stick with them.

Its all about practice, thats what makes you better. Having a nice pocket strung to be a virtual part of you is just a big help.

[gripitandripit]

Play with what you want, but a wide(r), stiffer, slightly heavier head will always make for a superior long pole. You can string more than enough hold into a wide head for dodging and moving with the ball, so that argument is bunk.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Oh and 3PP with a real nice pocket theres no reason a wide head can't dodge just as well as a pinched one, which in my mind gives even more reason to stick with them.



Well that's correct. I still contend that defenders who try to dodge are a liability at the higher skill levels and if they regularly succeed they are mis-deployed. They ought to be shorties.

Might I add that dodging with a pole is more about arm strength than that little sliver of extra hold that a well strung pocket in a pinched head gives you over a well strung pocket in a standard head. However, if a slightly larger head will turn intercepts that you knock down into catches, tips into knock downs, and misses into tips, the value of a bigger net becomes apparent.

[gripitandripit]

Well that's correct. I still contend that defenders who try to dodge are a liability at the higher skill levels and if they regularly succeed they are mis-deployed. They ought to be shorties.



I'm with you on this one 100% but I think you might be starting a semantic argument with yourself. I think (and hope) when these kids are talking about a long pole "dodging" they're talking about that one move that creates some space for an easy clear. Other than that, your liability comment is absolutely correct. If, as a long pole, you're dodging and juking through crowds an a regular basis you need to get your head up and find the open man.

[tkdlaxer]

Well that's correct. I still contend that defenders who try to dodge are a liability at the higher skill levels and if they regularly succeed they are mis-deployed. They ought to be shorties.

Might I add that dodging with a pole is more about arm strength than that little sliver of extra hold that a well strung pocket in a pinched head gives you over a well strung pocket in a standard head. However, if a slightly larger head will turn intercepts that you knock down into catches, tips into knock downs, and misses into tips, the value of a bigger net becomes apparent.

I'll concede to that, I play with my wide head on a shortie, so I wouldn't know what its like on a longpole. I do think though that for feeders or any kind of defensive players a wider head is a great option.

[D4LIFE]

another factor that a pinch head inproves is keeping the ball in the same spot in your stick when u throw it. i noticed that even though my X2 is strung with the same amount of hold as the helix and dodges just fine, when u make passes under presure the ball is more likely to be oddly set in the stick, causing bad passes. another thing is runing through checks, cause with the helix i could take checks on my stick more without losing ball, it just would stay in place better when atempting to cradle threw single checks. with the X2 when u take those checks the ball tends to move more and then if i get a second check when the balls not set well its knocked out.

pinched heads help when passing unde presure, nobody has mentioned that advantage for the pinch.

[gripitandripit]

another factor that a pinch head inproves is keeping the ball in the same spot in your stick when u throw it. i noticed that even though my X2 is strung with the same amount of hold as the helix and dodges just fine, when u make passes under presure the ball is more likely to be oddly set in the stick, causing bad passes. another thing is runing through checks, cause with the helix i could take checks on my stick more without losing ball, it just would stay in place better when atempting to cradle threw single checks. with the X2 when u take those checks the ball tends to move more and then if i get a second check when the balls not set well its knocked out.

pinched heads help when passing unde presure, nobody has mentioned that advantage for the pinch.

I understand what you're saying but you're making bogus arguments. First of all, the only thing that causes a bad pass is the player holding the stick. Secondly, a good defenseman won't find himself in the positions you're talking about. If you're under so much pressure that you're dodging and running through checks, somebody is open and it's your job to get your head up and find them, not to try and make a hero play.

[mercenary]

well im good so i need to dodge im buying a clutch
i usually knock down passes with the face of my stick, not the throat. does work

[middyman911]

The head that you use is all about what you like about it. I was at the Washington College v. Cortland game today and poles had both pinched and unpinched heads.

[Tehb2]

I'd think wider heads are good if you want to knock down passes. The article in US Lacrosse mag on Lade said he used an old edge to knock down passes, and I have witnessed his great knock-down skills.

Most defensemen I know use really deep pockets so the attackmen can't knock the ball out since they have so much extra poll.