Titanium/ Scandium shaft Strenth, Durability

[WN5150]

Just wondering about the strenth, weight and durability of Titanium vs Scandium. Also interested in any other handle matrial that is strong, light and durable. Would also like to hear to hear of personal experinces with Titanium and Scandium shafts, both positive and negative.

[Stringer4Lax]

Okay
Titanium- Stronger than scandium but heavier. Also the Warrior Titanium series is junk dont even bother, they break within a month. The older titaniums were the strongest. If you did choose titanium i would recommend the Scorpion Tyrant or the Mohawk TI.

Scandium- VERY light while still maintaining strength. I had the STX ones are by far lighter and stronger than the Brine ones. I haven't dented mine but it is now out of my possession.
SC+TI= STX makes this shaft its very strong and also light. Never owned so not much more to say there.
Whats your price range? just so i know what other shafts you could get.

Here are some very expensive but almost indestructible shafts
Scorpion Genisys- they run about 180. 18 month warranty for attack length. www.scorpion-lacrosse.com
From what ive heard Last Stick- Its called Last Stick because they claim its the Last Stick your going to buy. Lifetime warranty. http://laststickstore.com/

[Titanoh]

If your going to get a Ti shaft, get an STX Ti, or Scorpion Tyrant.
If you want a scandium shaft, get a STX Sc+Ti or a STX scandium.
(Warriors Ti's are junk, except for the fatboy)

[CJLAX]

The Scorpion Genisys is a Scandium alloy too as Stringer has noted, but it's not a light weight scandium shaft like the STX Scandium, there is far more metal used, which contributes to its strength. This helps to make it as strong if not stronger than titanium shafts.

I think the Last Stick however is only a 6000 series alloy, and i read on one of the deleted posts on it, that its actually quite a bit heavier than most shafts! I don't think its in the scandium range of shafts, (but may have some in it somewhere)

TI shafts i would consider to be stronger than the lightweight scandiums, but then they are also heavier than them too.

[brainddeadjock]

I need to clarity shaft materials .... again!

Scandium shafts are aluminum based alloys, like steel is an iron based alloy. Scandium is a rare earth element that the Russian discover added substantial strength to aluminum alloys.

We all know that Titanium is a very strong metal that is alloyed to make some very high yield materials.

They idea that one shaft is "stronger" that another is kinda mis-leading I could design an AL600 shaft that would snap any titanium shaft in half and all of you know that paper clips are made of steel and everyone can bend those.

So what are these high yield strengths all the manufactured are marketing. Yield strength is the bend stress that the material reaches and "yields" or goes plastic, or permanently deforms. So if all shaft have the same dimensions and more importantly same wall thickness, the higher yielding or "stronger" material would required the most force to bend.

Most people think KPro shafts are stronger than KLytes, but most defensemen prefer KLyltes, why? Durability. To make KPros lighter, the wall thickness goes down or is thinner. Even though the material is "stronger" in a KPro, they bend more easily because of the reduced wall thickness. Now you can find some KPros with thick walls and some KLytes with thin walls. I have measured the thickness of several shafts of the same model and same year and found wide variations in wall thickness. I have found some Platinum alloys with thinner wall that KLytes.

Here is something that will make you all sick. The material property that determines the resistance to bending is Young's Modulus of Elasticity. For all aluminum alloys, it is about 10.5 million PSI =/- 10%. Therefore, regardless of the aluminum based alloy shaft you pick, the only real characteristic of consequence that determines the resistance to denting is wall thickness.

He who has the thicker shaft wins.

Thsi may not apply to the SC/TI shafts. I don't know if it is an aluminum based or Titanium based alloy. Based on the price I can guessing, aluminum based alloy.

Here is a elemental breakdown of the two most common Aluminum shaft alloys.

7075 (C405, Axe, Kryptolyte, F-22, Ignite Supra)

Aluminum Balance
Chromium 0.18 - 0.28
Copper 1.2 - 2
Iron 0.5 max
Magnesium 2.1 - 2.9
Manganese 0.3 max
Other Each 0.05 max
Others Total 0.15 max
Silicon 0.4 max
Titanium 0.2 max
Zinc 5.1 - 6.1

7050 Aluminum (CU31, Platinum Alloy, STX Zirconium & Sabre)

Aluminum Balance
Chromium 0.04
Copper 2.0 - 2.6
Iron 0.15 max
Magnesium 1.9 - 2.6
Manganese 0.10 max
Other Each 0.05 max
Others Total 0.15 max
Silicon 0.12 max
Titanium 0.06 max
Zinc 5.7 - 6.7
Zirconium 0.08-0.115

My guess is that the "Scandium" shafts are a tweaked version of CU31 recipe and the SC/TI shafts are a tweaked C405 recipe.

[brainddeadjock]

Titanium has a Young's Modulus of 15-17 million, but titanium is also denser, i.e. heavier. But substantially more dent resistant.

All things being equal, a titanium shaft with the same wall thickness of any aluminum alloy will be more dent and bend resistant, but heavier. You have to make a value decision. Weight or durability. Most of the time Titanium shaft are about 30% thinner, so they weigh about the same as an aluminum shaft, are more dent resistant, but cost a lot more.

But don't get a super thin walled shaft, like the higher end
Warrior shafts. The walls are so thin, the shafts are not durable and tend to snap or bend.

Warrior only has a 30 day warranty on their Titanium poles, STX and Brine have 6 month warranty, and Gait may still have a 12 month warranty.

Based on this info, and add in the short warranty, if I were to buy any Titanium pole, I would buy a Gait or STX over any Warrior or Brine. Brine will most likely be shortening their Ti-Pole warranty soon too.

For the most bang for you buck, get a CU31 based pole. I would only buy any of the other types of shaft if they are on sale (cheap!!!!!) or some other type of deal/trade. I usually buy C405 shafts since they are very common and you can get deal on them all the time.

[gtodude]

sc+ti is the greatest shaft ever, with a clutch it is the weapon that will destroy anyone, nuff said.

[bethsc]

I need to clarity shaft materials .... again!

Scandium shafts are aluminum based alloys, like steel is an iron based alloy. Scandium is a rare earth element that the Russian discover added substantial strength to aluminum alloys.

We all know that Titanium is a very strong metal that is alloyed to make some very high yield materials.

They idea that one shaft is "stronger" that another is kinda mis-leading I could design an AL600 shaft that would snap any titanium shaft in half and all of you know that paper clips are made of steel and everyone can bend those.

So what are these high yield strengths all the manufactured are marketing. Yield strength is the bend stress that the material reaches and "yields" or goes plastic, or permanently deforms. So if all shaft have the same dimensions and more importantly same wall thickness, the higher yielding or "stronger" material would required the most force to bend.

Most people think KPro shafts are stronger than KLytes, but most defensemen prefer KLyltes, why? Durability. To make KPros lighter, the wall thickness goes down or is thinner. Even though the material is "stronger" in a KPro, they bend more easily because of the reduced wall thickness. Now you can find some KPros with thick walls and some KLytes with thin walls. I have measured the thickness of several shafts of the same model and same year and found wide variations in wall thickness. I have found some Platinum alloys with thinner wall that KLytes.

Here is something that will make you all sick. The material property that determines the resistance to bending is Young's Modulus of Elasticity. For all aluminum alloys, it is about 10.5 million PSI =/- 10%. Therefore, regardless of the aluminum based alloy shaft you pick, the only real characteristic of consequence that determines the resistance to denting is wall thickness.

He who has the thicker shaft wins.

Thsi may not apply to the SC/TI shafts. I don't know if it is an aluminum based or Titanium based alloy. Based on the price I can guessing, aluminum based alloy.

Here is a elemental breakdown of the two most common Aluminum shaft alloys.

7075 (C405, Axe, Kryptolyte, F-22, Ignite Supra)

Aluminum Balance
Chromium 0.18 - 0.28
Copper 1.2 - 2
Iron 0.5 max
Magnesium 2.1 - 2.9
Manganese 0.3 max
Other Each 0.05 max
Others Total 0.15 max
Silicon 0.4 max
Titanium 0.2 max
Zinc 5.1 - 6.1

7050 Aluminum (CU31, Platinum Alloy, STX Zirconium & Sabre)

Aluminum Balance
Chromium 0.04
Copper 2.0 - 2.6
Iron 0.15 max
Magnesium 1.9 - 2.6
Manganese 0.10 max
Other Each 0.05 max
Others Total 0.15 max
Silicon 0.12 max
Titanium 0.06 max
Zinc 5.7 - 6.7
Zirconium 0.08-0.115

My guess is that the "Scandium" shafts are a tweaked version of CU31 recipe and the SC/TI shafts are a tweaked C405 recipe.

Great Post! But I just realized I am going to hate Chem./Physics in HS. after reading this one?

[Lax4life528]

I need to clarity shaft materials .... again!

Scandium shafts are aluminum based alloys, like steel is an iron based alloy. Scandium is a rare earth element that the Russian discover added substantial strength to aluminum alloys.

We all know that Titanium is a very strong metal that is alloyed to make some very high yield materials.

They idea that one shaft is "stronger" that another is kinda mis-leading I could design an AL600 shaft that would snap any titanium shaft in half and all of you know that paper clips are made of steel and everyone can bend those.

So what are these high yield strengths all the manufactured are marketing. Yield strength is the bend stress that the material reaches and "yields" or goes plastic, or permanently deforms. So if all shaft have the same dimensions and more importantly same wall thickness, the higher yielding or "stronger" material would required the most force to bend.

Most people think KPro shafts are stronger than KLytes, but most defensemen prefer KLyltes, why? Durability. To make KPros lighter, the wall thickness goes down or is thinner. Even though the material is "stronger" in a KPro, they bend more easily because of the reduced wall thickness. Now you can find some KPros with thick walls and some KLytes with thin walls. I have measured the thickness of several shafts of the same model and same year and found wide variations in wall thickness. I have found some Platinum alloys with thinner wall that KLytes.

Here is something that will make you all sick. The material property that determines the resistance to bending is Young's Modulus of Elasticity. For all aluminum alloys, it is about 10.5 million PSI =/- 10%. Therefore, regardless of the aluminum based alloy shaft you pick, the only real characteristic of consequence that determines the resistance to denting is wall thickness.

He who has the thicker shaft wins.

Thsi may not apply to the SC/TI shafts. I don't know if it is an aluminum based or Titanium based alloy. Based on the price I can guessing, aluminum based alloy.

Here is a elemental breakdown of the two most common Aluminum shaft alloys.

7075 (C405, Axe, Kryptolyte, F-22, Ignite Supra)

Aluminum Balance
Chromium 0.18 - 0.28
Copper 1.2 - 2
Iron 0.5 max
Magnesium 2.1 - 2.9
Manganese 0.3 max
Other Each 0.05 max
Others Total 0.15 max
Silicon 0.4 max
Titanium 0.2 max
Zinc 5.1 - 6.1

7050 Aluminum (CU31, Platinum Alloy, STX Zirconium & Sabre)

Aluminum Balance
Chromium 0.04
Copper 2.0 - 2.6
Iron 0.15 max
Magnesium 1.9 - 2.6
Manganese 0.10 max
Other Each 0.05 max
Others Total 0.15 max
Silicon 0.12 max
Titanium 0.06 max
Zinc 5.7 - 6.7
Zirconium 0.08-0.115

My guess is that the "Scandium" shafts are a tweaked version of CU31 recipe and the SC/TI shafts are a tweaked C405 recipe.
Good facts and a great post. Kind of goes against ur username though.