a question that has puzzled me

[Tony]

ok, i would like to know if it is legal to hit a goalies stick when he clamps the ball outside of the crease while he is still inside the crease, i have never been called for it but the other team's coaches have always yelled that i can't do that, although in indoor(not box) the coach said we were allowed, is it legal to hit the keep's stick?

[cloo24]

i believe that as long as his stick is outside the crease you are allowed

[LaxRef]

ok, i would like to know if it is legal to hit a goalies stick when he clamps the ball outside of the crease while he is still inside the crease, i have never been called for it but the other team's coaches have always yelled that i can't do that, although in indoor(not box) the coach said we were allowed, is it legal to hit the keep's stick?

It's legal as long as the goalie's stick is outside the crease AND the goalie does not have possession. If either of these conditions is violated, it's illegal.

[LCNlaxman]

Possession is a pretty loose term, unfortunatly. according to the rules when the goalie is raking the ball, it is considered he has possession.

[Tony]

so if he just clamps the ball and waits for people to clear out to rake it in i'm allowed to check his stick to get the ball from him right?

[senor_k]

I think the clamp gives him possesion, so if he's standing in the crease and clamping, you cant touch him.

[LaxRef]

Possession is a pretty loose term, unfortunatly. according to the rules when the goalie is raking the ball, it is considered he has possession.

Please cite a rule to support this claim. A player has possession if he can pass, shoot, or cradle. Can you do any of these things when you have the ball clamped to the ground?

See NCAA rule 4-19:

c. The crosse of the goalkeeper, but not his body, when extended outside the cylinder above the crease area, is subject to being checked under the same circumstances as the crosse of any other player, except when the ball is in the crosse.

[AXL]

so if its under the crosse its not in the cross. so i can "check" or kick his stick if i want to?

[CoachRob]

so if its under the crosse its not in the cross. so i can "check" or kick his stick if i want to?

Correct. So long as he is NOT in possession (not able to cradle, pass or shoot the ball) his stick is fair game so long as it is OUTSIDE the line that demarcates the edge of the crease. If he is simply clamping it, whack the nuts out his stick and teach him a lesson! But once he gets control of the ball, so long as JUS ONE of his LITTLE ITTY BITTY TOES is STILL inside the crease, both he AND the crosse are OFF LIMITS!

Note that the GK cannot leave the crease entirely (his body), scoop the ball to control it, and then reenter the crease. That is illegal and is a loss of possession. NO PLAYER MAY ENTER THE CREASE WITH POSSESSION IF HE HAS GAINED POSSESSION WHILE OUTSIDE THE CREASE, NOR MAY A GK WHO GAINS POSSESSION INSIDE THE CREASE LEAVE AND THEN REENTER THE CREASE. So, if a player it ENTIRELY outside the crease with the ball, he may never enter the crease. He may PASS it into the crease, but he may not run it.

[laxgirl45]

I duno about field, but in box it's legal. as long as the goalie is out of the crease, you can hit him/her or slash their sticks.

[Section III Lax]

Anouther twist

A goalie goes out of the crease to get a loose ball
which he does. Goal after gaining control of the ball runs towards the crease and intensionally rolls the ball into the crease( the back side of the goal) runs into the crease and again picks up the loose ball runs around the cage and clears the ball to a middie at the midfeild line . Is it legal?

[LaxRef]

so if its under the crosse its not in the cross. so i can "check" or kick his stick if i want to?

The rule I quoted says you can check the stick if the ball is clamped outside the crease. You can NEVER kick the cross; it's a technical foul (interference).

[LaxRef]

so if he just clamps the ball and waits for people to clear out to rake it in i'm allowed to check his stick to get the ball from him right?

Yes. And if he just clamps the ball and doesn't try to pick it up right away, it's withholding the ball from play. See NCAA rule 6-13

SECTION 13. When a loose ball is on the ground, a player may not lie on the ball, trap it with his crosse longer than is necessary for him to control the ball and pick it up with one continuous motion, or withhold the ball from play in any other manner.

[LaxRef]

Anouther twist

A goalie goes out of the crease to get a loose ball
which he does. Goal after gaining control of the ball runs towards the crease and intensionally rolls the ball into the crease( the back side of the goal) runs into the crease and again picks up the loose ball runs around the cage and clears the ball to a middie at the midfeild line . Is it legal?


Of course not. Technical foul, ball goes to the offensive team.

[CoachRob]

Of course not. Technical foul, ball goes to the offensive team.

On a similar note, a player may not deliberately create a loose ball to circumvent the rules pertaining to advancing the ball beyond the defensive area line, nor into the attacking area. It's a cheap trick and won't work.

[LaxRef]

On a similar note, a player may not deliberately create a loose ball to circumvent the rules pertaining to advancing the ball beyond the defensive area line,

True, if by true you mean creating a loose ball so you can get back into the defensive area.

False, if you mean creating a loose ball to get it out of the defensive area; that's prefectly legal.

nor into the attacking area.

True, if your talking about dropping the ball outside the attack area and then picking it up, hooping to get a new count. The only things that get you a new count are the ball or player in possession touching on or inside the box, the defense gaining possession, a stoppage in play, or a loose-ball technical foul against the defense.

False, if you're talking about stopping the 10-count by putting a loose ball into the attack area.

To stop the offensive 10-count, all you need to do is get the ball to touch something on or inside the attack area or step on or inside the attack area with possession. It's perfectly legal to roll the ball in there, or even throw a bounce pass that goes into and then immmediately out of the box, to stop the count. However, in the latter case the count immediately starts again (and, if there was a stalling warning in place, a violation is called).

[CoachRob]

True, if by true you mean creating a loose ball so you can get back into the defensive area.

False, if you mean creating a loose ball to get it out of the defensive area; that's prefectly legal

True, if your talking about dropping the ball outside the attack area and then picking it up, hooping to get a new count. The only things that get you a new count are the ball or player in possession touching on or inside the box, the defense gaining possession, a stoppage in play, or a loose-ball technical foul against the defense.

False, if you're talking about stopping the 10-count by putting a loose ball into the attack area.

I'm quoting and expanding upon NFHS 6-5.17. By this ILLEGAL PROCEDURE rule, it is meant that when you are nearing the end of the 10-second count, if you have not yet left the defensive area, nor crossed over the attacking line into the attacking goal area, you may NOT deliberately create a loose ball and pick it up expecting to restart the 10-second count. Neither may you, the ball having left the defensive area, deliberately create a loose ball, pick it back up, and expect to be able to REENTER the defensive area zone. (That is reserved for only the FIRST player who NFHS 4-14: ...gains possession of the ball as the result of a loose ball or turnover, or is awarded the ball outside the defensive-clearing line to start play... [for instance, after an out of bounds or a penalty restart]. He and ONLY he may legally pass or run it back into the defensive goal area.)

If that loose ball were to CROSS over the line, then the 10 second count naturally ends and no violation exists, without regard to who gains/regains control of the ball.

But I think you knew that...

[LaxRef]

I'm quoting and expanding upon NFHS 6-5.17. By this ILLEGAL PROCEDURE rule, it is meant that when you are nearing the end of the 10-second count, if you have not yet left the defensive area, nor crossed over the attacking line into the attacking goal area, you may NOT deliberately create a loose ball and pick it up expecting to restart the 10-second count.


Sure you can! It won't restart the 10-second count, but you can do it expecting it to end the 10-second count. It's not illegal procedure to try it, though. If you try, I'll just keep my count going. There's absolutely NO reason to blow the whistle and turn the ball over if someone tries this, since there is NO advantage gained. The count keeps going, and you didn't fool anybody.

The rule you cite (6-5.17) specifically applies to creating a loose ball so you can pick it up and then run or pass it back into the defensive area OR creating a loose ball and trying to move the ball back into the defensive area while it's loose. If you do so, it will either be illegal procedure or a play-on, depending on whether the ball is loose or not when the violation occurs. All of this is analagous to trying to create a loose ball so you can take the ball back into the crease.

[CoachRob]

Sure you can! It won't restart the 10-second count, but you can do it expecting it to end the 10-second count. It's not illegal procedure to try it, though. If you try, I'll just keep my count going. There's absolutely NO reason to blow the whistle and turn the ball over if someone tries this, since there is NO advantage gained. The count keeps going, and you didn't fool anybody.

If I understand you, A2, nearing the defensive line, at 9.5 seconds, realizing he is not going to make it, can drop the ball, say "Oops!", then pick it up and get a NEW 10 seconds? In what league is THIS a rule?

If this does not fall under ...a player may not deliberately create a loose ball to circumvent the rules pertaining to advancing the ball beyond the defensive area line... then this rule simply has NO meaning.

You cannot DELIBERATELY drop the ball, pick it up, and expect a FRESH 10 seconds. You simply cannot do that. Am I misreading what you mean?

Snake, I think either LaxRef or I have lost our rocker. What do you say?

[LaxRef]

If I understand you, A2, nearing the defensive line, at 9.5 seconds, realizing he is not going to make it, can drop the ball, say "Oops!", then pick it up and get a NEW 10 seconds? In what league is THIS a rule?

If you re-read my post, you'll see I specifically said he will not get a new 10-count if he does this:

Sure you can! It won't restart the 10-second count, but you can do it expecting it to end the 10-second count. It's not illegal procedure to try it, though. If you try, I'll just keep my count going.

My point is that players can expect all kinds of things, but that doesn't affect my judgment of the play. The rules say I keep counting until a loose ball breaks the plane of the DCL, a player carries the ball out of the defensive zone with both feet, the other team gains possession, there is a loose-ball techincal against the other team, or play stops for any reason.

So B1 drops the ball and picks it up, and he expects me to start a new 10-count. He can expect that, but the rules say that's not what I'm supposed to do, so I keep counting.

If this does not fall under ...a player may not deliberately create a loose ball to circumvent the rules pertaining to advancing the ball beyond the defensive area line... then this rule simply has NO meaning.

On the contrary, this rule has a very particular meaning: it means you can't deliberately create a loose ball when you're outside the DCL so that you can "be the first person to pick up a loose ball" and then have the right to run or pass the ball back into the defensive area. That's what this rule is about.

(The NCAA has now clarified that, in addition to it not being legal to deliberately create a loose ball in order to be able to run it back into the defensive area, the loose ball must be created by contact from the other team; merely accidentally dropping the ball or a pass and then picking it up does not give you the right to run or pass back into the defensive area.)

You claim that if a player in the defensive area drops the ball deliberately and picks it up expecting a new 10-count that he is guilty of illegal procedure, and this is my big issue with your post, because it is not true. The key issue here is that--since nothing in the rules says you get a new count if the ball becomes loose while you're trying to advance past the defensive clearing line--creating a loose ball and picking it up simply cannot be considered an attempt to circumvent the rules about advancing the ball beyond the DCL. Thus, it's not a foul to deliberately create a loose bal behind the DCL and then pick it up.

But--and this is the key--the count continues. There is no advantage gained by the player doing this. In your example, the count is at 9.5, and B1 tries to get a new count by dropping the ball and picking it up. By the time he does this, the count is at 10 and I've blown the whistle.

However, suppose the count is at 6 when he deliberately drops the ball. He drops it and picks it up. Now the count is at 7, and he still has to clear the ball. You're saying I should blow the whistle and call illegal procedure on B1, but he's gained no advantage, and in fact he's wasted time that could have been used to try to clear the ball.

Just for clarity, if the rules said that you got a new count whenever the ball became loose and you picked it back up--and they don't say that--then I would agree that this would be illegal procedure, because in this case B1 would be trying to circumvent the intent of the rule by his action.

But in the case at hand, there's no rule to circumvent.

You cannot DELIBERATELY drop the ball, pick it up, and expect a FRESH 10 seconds. You simply cannot do that. Am I misreading what you mean?

That's NOT what I'm saying. He does NOT get a new count. You said that he can't drop the ball and pick it up expecting to get a new 10-second count, and I said sure he can. He can expect me to award his team 10 goals every time his team completes a pass, but that's not going to happen either.

Lest you think I'm being overly nitpicky, my real exception was your claim that if he did create a loose ball to try to get a new 10-count he would be guilty of illegal procedure. That's simply not true.

[Snake~eyes]

Snake, I think either LaxRef or I have lost our rocker. What do you say?
Well I think you are both trying to say the same thing.

[CoachRob]

Originally Posted by CoachRob
If I understand you, A2, nearing the defensive line, at 9.5 seconds, realizing he is not going to make it, can drop the ball, say "Oops!", then pick it up and get a NEW 10 seconds? In what league is THIS a rule?
----------------
If you re-read my post, you'll see I specifically said he will not get a new 10-count if he does this:

that's true, you didn't say that. I read that into what you posted.


Originally Posted by LaxRef
Sure you can! It won't restart the 10-second count, but you can do it expecting it to end the 10-second count. It's not illegal procedure to try it, though. If you try, I'll just keep my count going.
------------------
My point is that players can expect all kinds of things, but that doesn't affect my judgment of the play. The rules say I keep counting until a loose ball breaks the plane of the DCL, a player carries the ball out of the defensive zone with both feet, the other team gains possession, there is a loose-ball technical against the other team, or play stops for any reason.

So B1 drops the ball and picks it up, and he expects me to start a new 10-count. He can expect that, but the rules say that's not what I'm supposed to do, so I keep counting.

I think you left out if B1 is fouled by A2 (pushed, or some other person foul), and fails to cross the DCL w/in 10 seconds, the whistle blows. Technical foul against B1 to end the slow whistle, team B keeps possession and the ball is moved to midfield for a time-serving penalty against team A.



Originally Posted by CoachRob
If this does not fall under ...a player may not deliberately create a loose ball to circumvent the rules pertaining to advancing the ball beyond the defensive area line... then this rule simply has NO meaning.
--------------
On the contrary, this rule has a very particular meaning: it means you can't deliberately create a loose ball when you're outside the DCL so that you can "be the first person to pick up a loose ball" and then have the right to run or pass the ball back into the defensive area. That's what this rule is about.

(The NCAA has now clarified that, in addition to it not being legal to deliberately create a loose ball in order to be able to run it back into the defensive area, the loose ball must be created by contact from the other team; merely accidentally dropping the ball or a pass and then picking it up does not give you the right to run or pass back into the defensive area.)

I don't follow NCAA rules but that is an excellent clarification that may be part of the 2005 NFHS rules out in late November.

You claim that if a player in the defensive area drops the ball deliberately and picks it up expecting a new 10-count that he is guilty of illegal procedure, and this is my big issue with your post, because it is not true. The key issue here is that--since nothing in the rules says you get a new count if the ball becomes loose while you're trying to advance past the defensive clearing line--creating a loose ball and picking it up simply cannot be considered an attempt to circumvent the rules about advancing the ball beyond the DCL. Thus, it's not a foul to deliberately create a loose bal behind the DCL and then pick it up.

But--and this is the key--the count continues. There is no advantage gained by the player doing this. In your example, the count is at 9.5, and B1 tries to get a new count by dropping the ball and picking it up. By the time he does this, the count is at 10 and I've blown the whistle.

However, suppose the count is at 6 when he deliberately drops the ball. He drops it and picks it up. Now the count is at 7, and he still has to clear the ball. You're saying I should blow the whistle and call illegal procedure on B1, but he's gained no advantage, and in fact he's wasted time that could have been used to try to clear the ball.

Just for clarity, if the rules said that you got a new count whenever the ball became loose and you picked it back up--and they don't say that--then I would agree that this would be illegal procedure, because in this case B1 would be trying to circumvent the intent of the rule by his action.

But in the case at hand, there's no rule to circumvent.

No, what I'm saying is that if you deliberately drop the ball, and then pick it up expecting to get a new 10-second count, the count would continue, and after 10 seconds have expired, having not crossed the DCL or entered the attacking goal area, you are guilty of illegal procedure. Loss of possession. Maybe I didn't write it as clearly as I should have?? Sorry 'bout that.



Originally Posted by CoachRob
You cannot DELIBERATELY drop the ball, pick it up, and expect a FRESH 10 seconds. You simply cannot do that. Am I misreading what you mean?
---------------------
That's NOT what I'm saying. He does NOT get a new count. You said that he can't drop the ball and pick it up expecting to get a new 10-second count, and I said sure he can. He can expect me to award his team 10 goals every time his team completes a pass, but that's not going to happen either.

Lest you think I'm being overly nitpicky, my real exception was your claim that if he did create a loose ball to try to get a new 10-count he would be guilty of illegal procedure. That's simply not true.

Agreed. A player can expect anything. I guess I didn't clarify enough. We do agree in each issue I think, as Snake says.

In summary, you get a 10 second count. If you drop the ball on your own, the count continues. Assuming no fouls, etc, if you don't get over the DCL or into the attacking goal area, technical violation, loss of possession.

If you try to circumvent the rules by dropping it, then picking it up and going back across the DCL, it is also a technical violation, loss of possession in the very same manner as failing to cross the DCL within 10 seconds is.


NOTE: For young lax players the world over: Don't attempt any of these maneuvers at home without proper adult supervision! Doing so can pose a real and substantial hazard. Namely, LaxRef will toot his whistle until you submit to the Force of the Dark Side! :beard:

[LaxRef]

I think you left out if B1 is fouled by A2 (pushed, or some other person foul), and fails to cross the DCL w/in 10 seconds, the whistle blows. Technical foul against B1 to end the slow whistle, team B keeps possession and the ball is moved to midfield for a time-serving penalty against team A.

Well, technically I didn't leave this out, since I was giving the conditions that stopped the count. Although I suppose I should have added "or the count reaches 10," since that certainly stops it. :chuckle:

But, as you say, a technical foul by the offense ends a flag down but they will maintain possession and get a new count when play restarts.

No, what I'm saying is that if you deliberately drop the ball, and then pick it up expecting to get a new 10-second count, the count would continue, and after 10 seconds have expired, having not crossed the DCL or entered the attacking goal area, you are guilty of illegal procedure. Loss of possession. Maybe I didn't write it as clearly as I should have?? Sorry 'bout that.

It sounded like you were saying that it would be illegal procedure to drop the ball and pick it up because of the rule about trying to circumvent the rules about the DCL, which is why I was confused.

Agreed. A player can expect anything. I guess I didn't clarify enough. We do agree in each issue I think, as Snake says.

In summary, you get a 10 second count. If you drop the ball on your own, the count continues. Assuming no fouls, etc, if you don't get over the DCL or into the attacking goal area, technical violation, loss of possession.

This is all the same even if you don't drop it on your own (i.e., the riding team "helps" you drop it).

If you try to circumvent the rules by dropping it, then picking it up and going back across the DCL, it is also a technical violation, loss of possession in the very same manner as failing to cross the DCL within 10 seconds is.

That's right. Although I wonder how they really want us to call this. Should we be calling it illegal re-entry or just a vanilla illegal procedure if they intentionally drop the ball, pick it up, and head back past the DCL? I'd probably call it illegal re-entry and clarify if the coach said anything about the ball becoming loose.

[CoachRob]

It sounded like you were saying that it would be illegal procedure to drop the ball and pick it up because of the rule about trying to circumvent the rules about the DCL, which is why I was confused.

I did make it sound that way. Sorry, you read it correctly, I wrote it incorrectly, and you SHOULD have been confused.

We have plenty of players that drop the ball during a dodge or just make a handling error who then pick it back up and cross w/in 10 seconds. That's of course legal, and thank goodness for that. On our middle school team, it is rare for them to actually hold the ball for 10 seconds WITHOUT mishandling it. The only people who make more errors than my players is ME and our coaching staff (we're all newbies unfortunately).

That's right. Although I wonder how they really want us to call this. Should we be calling it illegal re-entry or just a vanilla illegal procedure if they intentionally drop the ball, pick it up, and head back past the DCL? I'd probably call it illegal re-entry and clarify if the coach said anything about the ball becoming loose.

Does it matter? Either is simply a loss of possession without any penalty time. For all intents and purposes, does it really make a difference?


Question 1: B1 purposely lets the ball drop as 10 seconds are nearly up. A2, who was not noticed by B1 (A2was running behind B1), tries to scoop the ball but does NOT gain control of the loose ball. B1 then scoops it right back up. Does the 10 second count continue or get reset? I would think it is a fresh 10, but the rules are not really clear so far as I can tell. I have seen refs call it both ways. If not touched the count continues; the gray area is if team A makes a play for and touches it.

Question 2: Same scenario, but this time A2 plays the MAN (B1) hoping that a teammate gets the loose ball (it's legal as B1 is w/in five yards of a loose ball). B1 slips past A2, scoops it and starts upfield again. Is THIS a fresh 10? I say no, but am not sure. A2 never touched the ball in this case. Don't really know what the ruling is. Let me know what you think.

We teach our kids NOT to try to get a loose ball if it's clear the 10 seconds will expire before our opponent crosses the DCL, since if we miss the scoop, it may give them a fresh 10 second count. (Of course it's hard for them to know when the 10 seconds are close to expiring, so that's a problem.)
:dummy:

[LaxRef]

Does it matter? Either is simply a loss of possession without any penalty time. For all intents and purposes, does it really make a difference?

Probably not, but I always want to do things as technically correctly as possible. For example, it doesn't really matter if you call it interference or illegla procedure if someone kicks the crosse, but I want to call it the right one (interference).

Question 1: B1 purposely lets the ball drop as 10 seconds are nearly up. A2, who was not noticed by B1 (A2was running behind B1), tries to scoop the ball but does NOT gain control of the loose ball. B1 then scoops it right back up. Does the 10 second count continue or get reset? I would think it is a fresh 10, but the rules are not really clear so far as I can tell. I have seen refs call it both ways. If not touched the count continues; the gray area is if team A makes a play for and touches it.

Count continues.


Question 2: Same scenario, but this time A2 plays the MAN (B1) hoping that a teammate gets the loose ball (it's legal as B1 is w/in five yards of a loose ball). B1 slips past A2, scoops it and starts upfield again. Is THIS a fresh 10? I say no, but am not sure. A2 never touched the ball in this case. Don't really know what the ruling is. Let me know what you think.

Count continues.

The rules say the count continues on a loose ball and the count ends if the other team gains possession. I don't see any justification for ending the count.

BTW, if the count expires while the ball is loose, it's a play-on.


We teach our kids NOT to try to get a loose ball if it's clear the 10 seconds will expire before our opponent crosses the DCL, since if we miss the scoop, it may give them a fresh 10 second count. (Of course it's hard for them to know when the 10 seconds are close to expiring, so that's a problem.)
:dummy:

Well, it's too bad you've had to adjust your team philosophy because some officials are calling it wrong.

[LCNlaxman]

sorry to interrupt but what does DCL mean? i'm not too clear on that.

[CoachRob]

I agree. But after "fighting the good fight" with so many refs (and never getting an USC or other foul, mind you!), I simply gave up and started this policy. We would get the ball, but they'd have at least five seconds to set up their defense and of course the ball would be moved outside the box.

[CoachRob]

sorry to interrupt but what does DCL mean? i'm not too clear on that.

Defensive Clearing Line. It is the line 35 yards from the end line, and 20 yards from the center line, and helps define the attacking goal areas and defensive zones.

And it's NEVER an interruption. This is an educational forum. Ask any lax related question you want. If we can answer it, we certaintly will. If we DON'T know the answer, we'll make it up! (Or, perhaps we'll LOOK it up; whichever is easier.) :chuckle: :thumbsup:

[LaxRef]

I agree. But after "fighting the good fight" with so many refs (and never getting an USC or other foul, mind you!), I simply gave up and started this policy. We would get the ball, but they'd have at least five seconds to set up their defense and of course the ball would be moved outside the box.

I think this is the kind of thing you take to the league or officials organization. You just say, "Hey, we've noticed some officials are calling it this way, and we think it should be that way. If we're right, please communicate this to the officials."

Your policy makes sense, but it could also be costing you some good shots in unsettled situations.

[CoachRob]

Well, as a first year coach of a first year program, i just figured they were right, so I didn't make a big issue of it. This year, it will be a bit different. I plan to attend the ref classes starting in January (our local LOA holds weekly classes at a local high school for three months) and take the officiating exam so that I can be an official next season. Plus, it can't hurt to know the refs...

[Laxref_36]

Coach Rob,

Really interesting comments. I'm disappointed that the officials are consistently calling the 10 second count incorrectly, as I'm one of MANY who are responsible for training officials so they get it RIGHT! I concur with LAXREF that you should not be changing coaching technique because of mistakes by officials. Long term it does not help you or the players, and that's the real reason we are ALL here.

To avoid this or any other mis-interpretation of the rules, I would talk to the assignor of officials, and send a note to the local officials organization. Helping them get it right makes for better officials, better coaching, better players, and better lacrosse.

[CoachRob]

Coach Rob,
To avoid this or any other mis-interpretation of the rules, I would talk to the assignor of officials, and send a note to the local officials organization. Helping them get it right makes for better officials, better coaching, better players, and better lacrosse.

I'm new at lax having started coaching and reading the rulebook for the very FIRST time just nine months ago (when my son asked me to help form a middle school lacrosse team so that he could play). So, I didn't feel comfortable disputing this issue last year. But this year, I'll have firmer footing as I now understand the rules probably better than most of the coaches and at least a few of the refs. I will also be meeting the refs when I take the ref's course to become licensed.

[Snake~eyes]

I'm new at lax having started coaching and reading the rulebook for the very FIRST time just nine months ago (when my son asked me to help form a middle school lacrosse team so that he could play). So, I didn't feel comfortable disputing this issue last year. But this year, I'll have firmer footing as I now understand the rules probably better than most of the coaches and at least a few of the refs. I will also be meeting the refs when I take the ref's course to become licensed.
So you're going to officiate right? If not good luck battling the refs as a coach trying to tell them how the 10 second count should be done. :concerned

[CoachRob]

So you're going to officiate right? If not good luck battling the refs as a coach trying to tell them how the 10 second count should be done. :concerned

I may consider becoming a ref. But I do want to go to the LOA meetings to see what they are learning so that I know what to expect during the season.

[LaxRef]

So you're going to officiate right? If not good luck battling the refs as a coach trying to tell them how the 10 second count should be done. :concerned

Did I tell you guys about the coach that went nuts because their opponent took "way more than 10 seconds" to get the ball across midfield after they'd crossed the DCL, and that I wasn't even counting. The coach swore to me that other officials--including the head honcho--had called them for this.

Finally, I figured out that in those situations they must have crossed midfield and brought the ball back over, so they DID get a failure to advance call in zone 2, but only because they never advanced into zone 4.

[CoachRob]

Did I tell you guys about the coach that went nuts because their opponent took "way more than 10 seconds" to get the ball across midfield after they'd crossed the DCL, and that I wasn't even counting. The coach swore to me that other officials--including the head honcho--had called them for this.

Jeepers, I hope that nutty coach wasn't ME?!?!?!? Was he a really good looking, smart, intellectual type who wore a jacket and tie on the sideline? :bartmoon:

[LaxRef]

Jeepers, I hope that nutty coach wasn't ME?!?!?!? Was he a really good looking, smart, intellectual type who wore a jacket and tie on the sideline? :bartmoon:

Yes, it was! So I guess it wasn't you. :chuckle:

[JsB90790]

so if its under the crosse its not in the cross. so i can "check" or kick his stick if i want to?
you are NOT allowed to kick his stick. that is the same thing as steping on the cross. i no situation are you allowed to kick a cross in general.