Patriots - The Greatest(?)

[Prof. Mushroom]

With the Giants win over the Patriots in the SuperBowl, this raises an interesting question. Are the Patriots the best team of all time? Obviously, the Pats not completing the 19-0 season plays a massive role ,however...18 wins in a single season. Take into account their strength of schedule, records set, and other various things. To some people the answer may be obvious. No, you can't be the best without a ring - or - Of course, what other team has had 18 wins in a season. Vote and/or discuss.

[cali feeder]

Yes, they are the best, ring or not.

[ramslac05]

I concur

Although my michigan man tom brady played an absolutely disgusting game last night

[JLancer24]

1972 Dolphins - Undefeated
2008 Patriots - 18-1
1985 Bears - 18-1
1984 49'ers - 18-1
That's all I'm gonna say, if anyone really wants to argue then IM me.

[cjm3113]

Best team to not win the Superbowl? Possibly, how you could call them the best team ever is beyond me.

[Meade Lacrosse]

Not at all. And by strength of schedule, do you mean the fact that they got to play the Buffalo Bills, Miami Dolphins, and New York Jets twice each this season? Or that they struggled against Philthy and Baltimore- both of whom weren't in the playoffs, and Baltimore which finished with double-digit losses.

Perfectville still has a population of 1. Maybe if the Pats didn't run up the score so much, or cheat, then we'd pity them.

Yes, they are the best, ring or not.

They can't be the best without a ring. If you think they are better than the '72 Dolphins, then the 2008 NY Giants are the greatest team ever.

[akalata]

72 Fins. Perfectville. Population 1.

[CPLAX08]

Can't be the best without the ring. Love the pats, but the Giants totally earned their recognition last night. Tom Brady didn't have a chance yesterday.

[MaKiMaKi13]

It doesn't matter if you don't win the big one

[shogunstud31]

I don't think anybody can actually answer this question. But 18-0 is still better than 17-0 in my opinion, whether or not they lost the 19th game. So I would still take this years pats over the 72 fins. Just my opinion, I know most people would disagree.

[cjm3113]

What about the '85 Bears? Isn't 18-1 and a ring better than 18-1 with a Superbowl loss?

[jmk2910]

the pats this year are not the best team of all time, but they are the best offense of all time and they are better than the '72 dolphins. The Best team ever IMO is the '84 49ers or the '85 bears

[Meade Lacrosse]

the pats this year are not the best team of all time, but they are the best offense of all time and they are better than the '72 dolphins. The Best team ever IMO is the '84 49ers or the '85 bears

I'd have to go with you on that one, though I nod towards the Bears IMO.

[Ballinman]

not the greatest team in history

http://www.rbk.com/us/perfectville/

[navylax161]

i love them, but it doesnt mean anything without the ring. best ever is either the bears or steelers in their glory days. '03 pats should get a bit more recognition though.

[26laxman26]

I would have to say that they are up there with the best, but i dont think you can call any one team the best. i mean, a team can be awesome (like the pats) one day and then lose the next. they arent always gonna play the same, theyll have their good days and bad. and its like my dad ALWAYS tells me, any team can be beat any given day! (except the 72 dolphins!)

[micmix111]

i love them, but it doesnt mean anything without the ring. best ever is either the bears or steelers in their glory days. '03 pats should get a bit more recognition though.

Not too sure cause some reporter wrote a story saying the Patriots recorded the last practice of the Rams, and this whole Spygate thing going to the Senate really taints this teams credibility regardless of whether they did it or not for now.

[ShermanLax607]

Don't you have to win the Superbowl in order to be even remotely considered the best team ever?

Mmm 18-1 won't cut it, sorry boys.


*Change in avatar*

[Orange]

No way are they the best team ever now.

[stinch38]

they arent even close to the best team ever. my favorite team, the NY giants, put an end to that. possibly if they won in the superbowl but not anymore

[Meade Lacrosse]

There's a sudden increase of NY Giants fans.

[cali feeder]

It doesn't matter if you don't win the big oneThey've won 3, I believe.

EDIT: I'd put money on it that this Patriots team would beat any past undefeated team.

[Meade Lacrosse]

They've won 3, I believe.

EDIT: I'd put money on it that this Patriots team would beat any past undefeated team.

In that case, the Giants would have just as much success, considering they, you know, beat the Pats.

[Eclipse]

What alot of people conveniently forget to mention about the '72 dolphins is that they only played 17 games. If the Pats had only played 17, or even 18, they too would be undefeated. If they Dolphins had played one or two more games, whose to say if they would have won them?

Can some of you also claim, that is the '72 Dolphins and the '08 Patriots were to meet on the field tomorrow, that the '72 Dolphins would win? I'm not sure if I can beleive that.

Either way, I haven't made my mind up on the issue since they lost the Super Bowl.

[laxjam16]

Did you guys see Brady and Moss connect for 80 yards?




'Cause I didn't.

[ShermanLax607]

claim, that is the '72 Dolphins and the '08 Patriots were to meet on the field tomorrow, that the '72 Dolphins would win? I'm not sure if I can beleive that.


Oh the 72 Fins that are left, of course there would be no competition. It would be in shape NFL players against old men.
OK just kidding.

But chances are you weren't alive to even see the 72 Dolphins, so I only think that someone who was alive and competent in 72 would be able to have an accurate opinion.


Also if the Pats only played 17 or 18 games they would have been undefeated? NO. This means that either one of those games would have been the Superbowl, and they would have lost. To the Giants

[swish7209]

72 Fins. Perfectville. Population 1.

yeah but think about who they were playing, compared to the people in the NFL today its not that good it would be like playing second or third stringers, i think if we could loop back in time and have the two teams play the patriots would easily win, and thats it. Stats aren't everything thats why you dont play the game on paper. And even the best loose sometimes, the dolphins lost the next season and i am pretty sure they didnt change the roster to much(why would they, they went 17-0)


Even though i hate the Pats i have to say they are the best ever

[cjm3113]

What alot of people conveniently forget to mention about the '72 dolphins is that they only played 17 games. If the Pats had only played 17, or even 18, they too would be undefeated. If they Dolphins had played one or two more games, whose to say if they would have won them?

Can some of you also claim, that is the '72 Dolphins and the '08 Patriots were to meet on the field tomorrow, that the '72 Dolphins would win? I'm not sure if I can beleive that.

Either way, I haven't made my mind up on the issue since they lost the Super Bowl.

While your argument is perfectly logical, the same thing could be said in their favor. Who is to say they wouldn't have gone 25-0 if given a 25 game season? I mean, they had won 17 games in a row. Technically, the Dolphins won the first game of their next season giving them an 18 consecutive win streak as well.

If you put any team from today on the field with the '72 Dolphins they may beat them. The players are bigger, stronger, and faster than every before. The coaching has evolved, the game has changed in so many ways it is hardly fair to even compare. The Patriots are the best team of this Era, I believe that is fair to say.

[navylax161]

The coach who led the Rams to a Super Bowl win in 2000 doesn't believe the Patriots' spying led the Rams to lose the Super Bowl in 2002.

Dick Vermeil, who coached the Rams to the title against he Titans in 2000, tells the Associated Press that he doubts any type of cheating is the reason the team lost to the Patriots when Mike Martz was the coach in 2002.

"Personally, I don't think it had any effect on the game," Vermeil said. "That stuff's been going on forever and I don't think you gain from it. But if people are doing it they must think it's making a contribution."

Vermeil was responding to the Boston Herald report that a member of the Patriots' staff taped the Rams' final walkthrough before the Super Bowl. The next day, the Patriots upset the Rams 20-17.

The 71-year-old Vermeil, who said suspicions of teams taping their opponents have gone on as long as he's been in football, said he thought any information a team could get from spying on an opponent's final practice would be limited, and that it could even be counterproductive in that it would cause the team to over-emphasize what it discovered in the walkthrough.
But, as Vermeil noted, any coach who engages in spying wouldn't do it if he didn't think he was gaining a competitive advantage from doing it.




hmmmm.....

[raykessler]

You can't be the best team ever and not win the superbowl. Proof. The St. Louis ram's from 1999-2001 (Marshall Faulk) are the only team ever to score 500 or more points three seasons in a row. Essentially up until these patriots they had the most potent offense that the NFL had ever seen. Are they even in the conversation for the great team ever? No. They are remembered for two things. One is that they upset Carolina (or the Titans) who was a heavy favorite. The other thing that they are remembered much more for is being the heavy favorite against the patriots and losing to them giving Tom Brady his first superbowl win. The Patriots now have the best offense ever, but they are not perfect, and thus are not the greatest ever.

Also building on you can't be the best team ever without the defense. Their defense was amazing and did the job well the first half of the year, but that changed. The last half of the year their defense stagnated and they stopped doing what they were doing. Example. It was only an act of God that allowed them to beat the Ravens. Yes the same Ravens team that gave what is arguably the worst team ever (Dolphins) its only win.

In summation: they are not the best team ever. They didn't have the defense to go the distance, and at the end of the year they really missed the run game that they didn't have. If they had a great running back they can stop the blitzes and keep the pressure off Brady and keep that fantastic passing attack going. So no, they are not the best team.

Something to think about: The Redskins won three superbowls in 10 years. Granted two were during strike seasons, but just because they didn't have an amazing QB doesn't mean they shouldn't get some recognition as teams like the Patriots, Stealers, and 49ers for their accomplishment.

[OwlsLax]

of course they're not. there have been many good teams in my opinion that are better than the patriots: Elway's Broncos, the old 49ers, Ditka's bears, etc.

[stinisonfire]

Also if the Pats only played 17 or 18 games they would have been undefeated? NO. This means that either one of those games would have been the Superbowl, and they would have lost. To the Giants

What would of happened if the Superbowl was in week 17?

[bethsc]

to all the Pat's fans out there, you're beloved Bellicheck has no class at all, to walk off th efield with one second left showed the world, he is a jerk. He never walked off the field when he won his previous Super Bowls. Maybe Mangini was right and maybe the Jets are better off. I for one, am glad the Gianys BEAT them, hahhahahahahahahahahhahahhaha!

[WKLAX]

not anymore

[mullengoal141]

to all the Pat's fans out there, you're beloved Bellicheck has no class at all, to walk off th efield with one second left showed the world, he is a jerk. He never walked off the field when he won his previous Super Bowls. Maybe Mangini was right and maybe the Jets are better off. I for one, am glad the Gianys BEAT them, hahhahahahahahahahahhahahhaha!

you know he clock in the stadium said 0:00 so i would have walked off too, i mean come on everybody thought it was over at that point. they had to manhandle people to walk off the field. he does the exact same thing every game whether he wins or loses. he shakes the guys hand and walks off the field immediately. every single time. sure he stays on the field when eh wins his superbowls, you stay on the field for the superbowl win, or you walk of disheartened if you lose. but every other game this season, he won, shook the hand, then bolted for the locker room.

[WinnytheSully]

What team in history has had the schedule that Pats had this year? To do as well as they did makes me think they're the best team in history.

[Prof. Mushroom]

to all the Pat's fans out there, you're beloved Bellicheck has no class at all, to walk off th efield with one second left showed the world, he is a jerk. He never walked off the field when he won his previous Super Bowls. Maybe Mangini was right and maybe the Jets are better off. I for one, am glad the Gianys BEAT them, hahhahahahahahahahahhahahhaha!
Actually, Belichick went up to the opposing coach, shook and his hand and congratulated him, and then walked off the field. The Giants swarmed the field...are you saying he should have stuck around for them to clear off when everyone thought the game was over? What was he suppose to do? It was an extremely disappointing loss. I would have been a slighty bummed out too. I sure wouldn't feel like hanging around to watch the other team celebrate. If that makes him a jerk, what are the other coaches who do the same called? It amuses me sometimes that people despise the Patriots so much, because of what? They had an exceptional season and are an elite team?

[memphislax]

I thought it was pretty dirty when Bellicheck threw out the review flag on the play where the Gaint's player was one step off the field. But thats just me. The Patriots coaching staff didnt have an answer for the Giants defense. The pass rush was amazing, and the secondary was pretty good. Yet, the Patriots still made some big plays. But I dont think it was because of coaching. Do the Patriots have the best players ever? Maybe. Do they have the best coaching staff? No. Are they the best team ever? Mmmmm...its a tough one....but...No.

You have to understand that I am biased. I am a huge Eli Manning fan. I go to Ole Miss and have watched him play in my growing up years. And Kevin Dockery (corner for the G men) went to my high school. So I was most definitely pulling for the giants

[roycegracie47]

I thought it was pretty dirty when Bellicheck threw out the review flag on the play where the Gaint's player was one step off the field. But thats just me. The Patriots coaching staff didnt have an answer for the Giants defense. The pass rush was amazing, and the secondary was pretty good. Yet, the Patriots still made some big plays. But I dont think it was because of coaching. Do the Patriots have the best players ever? Maybe. Do they have the best coaching staff? No. Are they the best team ever? Mmmmm...its a tough one....but...No.


There's nothing dirty about challenging that, same thing happened in the Skins/Bears game towards the end of the season to the benefit of the Skins. All it means is he had some very astute people up in the booth to call down to the field and point that out. Seeing as it was 4th&2 and the penalty would and did result in a 1st down, any other head coach would have thrown the same flag with that info, including asking the ref the definition of that 12th man's being inbounds. Had it been outside 4th&5 it wouldn't have made a difference other than shave a yeard or two off the punting distance and not have been worth challenging.

[riddlebox]

Absolutely not. Other teams have gone 18-1 as well. I think the patriots are like 4th or 5th best.

1. 1972 Miami Dolphins
2. 1985 Chicago Bears
3. 1984 San Francisco 49'ers
4. 2007 New England Patriots

[Meade Lacrosse]

There's nothing dirty about challenging that, same thing happened in the Skins/Bears game towards the end of the season to the benefit of the Skins. All it means is he had some very astute people up in the booth to call down to the field and point that out. Seeing as it was 4th&2 and the penalty would and did result in a 1st down, any other head coach would have thrown the same flag with that info, including asking the ref the definition of that 12th man's being inbounds. Had it been outside 4th&5 it wouldn't have made a difference other than shave a yeard or two off the punting distance and not have been worth challenging.

Exactly. Having Sharp Eyes shouldn't be punished.

[swish7209]

Exactly. Having Sharp Eyes shouldn't be punished.

I was almost positive you couldnt challenge a penalty though, can you please explain that i was very confused

[RIT37FO]

this thread title should be Giants-greatest ever

[roycegracie47]

I was almost positive you couldnt challenge a penalty though, can you please explain that i was very confused

You cannot reverse a penalty (something I think should fall under the replay rules) however certain plays which can be challenged due to their resulting in a penalty are legal and should there be indisputable evidence that the challeneg be won a penalty can be issued. That covers too many men on the field at the time of the snap, illegal foward pass, and the illegal touch of a foward pass by an inelligible reciever.

[laxmj1992]

1. They did not win a Super Bowl, so they are not the best team in the 2007-2008 season even.
2. They do not have the best record percentage-wise ever.
3. One could argue that they won by cheating.

You cannot call the Patriots the best team ever. There is no denying they are one of the best ever, but not THE best ever.