butt end question

[TheKOB]

At a recent game, we were told that metal but end caps were now illegal, which is apparently different from prior years. It also doesn't matter if they're covered by tape. Is this true?

[LaxRef]

At a recent game, we were told that metal but end caps were now illegal, which is apparently different from prior years. It also doesn't matter if they're covered by tape. Is this true?

Oh, yeah! And you can thank me for getting it added to the rulebook:

--Rule 1-19, Note 2, Crosse Construction. Change to read: “All hollow crosse handles must have their exposed ends adequately covered with plastic, rubber or tape to prevent injury. The use of metal caps (e.g., bottle caps) are prohibited.”
I also got them to add the part about rubber being legal, since it didn't say that before.

[cloo24]

how did you pull that off laxref? are you some huge lax officil and we don't even know it?

[LaxRef]

how did you pull that off laxref? are you some huge lax officil and we don't even know it?


Well, I weigh about 350. Does that make me "huge"? (Just kidding.)

At this point, I'm not very important in the grand scheme of things. However, I did submit a number of suggestions for rules changes/clarifications this year, and some were accepted.

Either that, or I'm the head of a shadow government that secretly controls everything, and I'm resposible for human complicity in alien colonization, the assination of JFK, and the fact that the Buffalo Bills never win the Super Bowl (and never will, as long as I'm alive). :chuckle:

[LCNlaxman]

nice one Laxref! :chuckle: Down with the buffalo bills!

By the way, Laxref, did YOU SPECIFICALLY ask for the "adequately taped" part to be added into the rules?

[LaxRef]

nice one Laxref! :chuckle: Down with the buffalo bills!

By the way, Laxref, did YOU SPECIFICALLY ask for the "adequately taped" part to be added into the rules?

That was already in there from previous years.

[TheKOB]

Oh, yeah! And you can thank me for getting it added to the rulebook:


I also got them to add the part about rubber being legal, since it didn't say that before.


Why? What's the point? Instead, the metal will cut through the rubber or plastic, and it will be dangerous, while the intent of the rule is to prevent it. What's the danger in a metal cap? Also, there are now a variety of items (tight butts, etc) that have metal in them. Are they illegal now as well?

That's a terrible suggestion...I remember discussing it before. Apparently that didn't convince you.

[LaxRef]

Why? What's the point? Instead, the metal will cut through the rubber or plastic, and it will be dangerous, while the intent of the rule is to prevent it. What's the danger in a metal cap? Also, there are now a variety of items (tight butts, etc) that have metal in them. Are they illegal now as well?

That's a terrible suggestion...I remember discussing it before. Apparently that didn't convince you.


Well, I didn't tell them to make it illegal. I said a lot of people were doing it, and asked if it was legal. They dediced it wasn't.

[TheKOB]

Well, I didn't tell them to make it illegal. I said a lot of people were doing it, and asked if it was legal. They dediced it wasn't.

Why shouldn't it be legal though? The point of a metal cap on a shaft is to PREVENT a stick from becoming illegal and harmful via poking through the plastic/rubber cap, which they do, and do often. As long as the cap isn't put on sharp ends out (which would be a bear to attach and an obvious USC foul, and probable ends for expulsion from whatever league they're playing in) then it's safer, not the opposite. Specifically excluding the metal cap makes it harder to stay legal, and keep the game safe...exactly the opposite of what the rules are there for.

[CoachRob]

KOB,
Rubber end caps are very inexpensive and easy to replace. If covered with tape, I see no reason they shouldn't last a whole season. If not, for around 50 cents, they can be replaced. I see this as MUCH SAFER than a metal end cap. I simply don't see a need for metal caps, for what that's worth. If they were the ONLY possible cover for the metal end, that would be one thing. But with alternatives such as rubber and plastic, I cannot agree with your when you say metal caps are superior to other forms of covers.

LaxRef's suggestions (which were around 10 pages and fully documented, I might add) were very well thought out and excellent recommendations to the committee. He is to be applauded for trying to make lax a safer AND cleaner sport.

[LatinBabe]

just a quarter in the bottom of your rubber end cap and your puncture problems will be no more.

[LaxRef]

just a quarter in the bottom of your rubber end cap and your puncture problems will be no more.

Yeah, but who's got THAT kind of money to throw around? :chuckle:

[LatinBabe]

coachrob... why did you remove my question on the tightbutt? maybe i read wrong when theKOB brought it up, but i didn't see an answer about its legality?

[LaxRef]

nice one Laxref! :chuckle: Down with the buffalo bills!


BTW, I don't know if anyone caught it, but the whole "shadow government" rant was an homage to the cigarette smoking man from the X-files.

[CoachRob]

Coachrob... why did you remove my question on the tight butt? maybe i read wrong when theKOB brought it up, but i didn't see an answer about its legality?

The stick circumference shall not exceed 3.5 inches. There are appropriate rubber and plastic end caps available to fit any size butt on the market, no matter how small.

(I have PM'd you with a detailed response to your question about removal.)

[CoachRob]

You can see the equipment LatinBabe and KOB are referring to.

This is the Brine one, check pic at bottom of first post:
http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=10618

Here is the tight butt:
http://e-lacrosse.com/stech75.html

[TheKOB]

KOB,
Rubber end caps are very inexpensive and easy to replace. If covered with tape, I see no reason they shouldn't last a whole season. If not, for around 50 cents, they can be replaced. I see this as MUCH SAFER than a metal end cap. I simply don't see a need for metal caps, for what that's worth. If they were the ONLY possible cover for the metal end, that would be one thing. But with alternatives such as rubber and plastic, I cannot agree with your when you say metal caps are superior to other forms of covers.

LaxRef's suggestions (which were around 10 pages and fully documented, I might add) were very well thought out and excellent recommendations to the committee. He is to be applauded for trying to make lax a safer AND cleaner sport.


Just because they can be replaced for cheap (I don't like spending that kind of money on a .50 cent butt cap, and then having it shipped to SC) doesn't mean there aren't other advantages. Why should our choices be limited to rubber and plastic? I like the grip when I put tape around it, which is much different from what you attempt to do with a plastic or rubber.

As for being safe, aren't we whacking each other with sticks made....<gasp> out of metal?

Safer and cleaner? How? I don't see how limiting our options helps us out. If you don't play actively how can you know what I"m talking about?

[CoachRob]

Just because they can be replaced for cheap (I don't like spending that kind of money on a .50 cent butt cap, and then having it shipped to SC) doesn't mean there aren't other advantages. Why should our choices be limited to rubber and plastic? I like the grip when I put tape around it, which is much different from what you attempt to do with plastic or rubber.

Safer and cleaner? How? I don't see how limiting our options helps us out. If you don't play actively how can you know what I"m talking about?

Well, first off, tape is NOT illegal. So, you can still put tape on the grip to your liking.

Second, I do agree that metal end caps are not necessarily a safety issue. However, I have seen some players use some awfully sharp/dangerous looking plugs that really had no place on a lax field. While the rest of the shaft is made of metal, these are smooth since the player does not want to be sliding his hands up/down/over rough surfaces.

Third, "safe and cleaner" was referring to the whole lot of LR's suggestions to the rules committee, not specifically to this initiative only.

Fourth, neither do I smoke, but I know it ain't too GOOD for you.

Fifth, I have my crosse in my hands for nearly the whole of practice five days/week for four months, so it's not like I am unfamiliar with the feel of a lacrosse stick.

Sixth, well, there is no sixth.

I understand your point KOB, but I simply feel there are other options to cover the butt end of a stick. It's only my opinion, and in the proper hands a metal cap is probably as safe as a rubber one, while you don't have to agree with it, the rules guys have decided to adopt this measure. So we all have to live with it for the time being.

There are plenty of rules I don't agree with, but I only coach the game.

[TheKOB]

Well, first off, tape is NOT illegal. So, you can still put tape on the grip to your liking.

Second, I do agree that metal end caps are not necessarily a safety issue. However, I have seen some players use some awfully sharp/dangerous looking plugs that really had no place on a lax field. While the rest of the shaft is made of metal, these are smooth since the player does not want to be sliding his hands up/down/over rough surfaces.

Third, "safe and cleaner" was referring to the whole lot of LR's suggestions to the rules committee, not specifically to this initiative only.

Fourth, neither do I smoke, but I know it ain't too GOOD for you.

Fifth, I have my crosse in my hands for nearly the whole of practice five days/week for four months, so it's not like I am unfamiliar with the feel of a lacrosse stick.

Sixth, well, there is no sixth.

I understand your point KOB, but I simply feel there are other options to cover the butt end of a stick. It's only my opinion, and in the proper hands a metal cap is probably as safe as a rubber one, while you don't have to agree with it, the rules guys have decided to adopt this measure. So we all have to live with it for the time being.

There are plenty of rules I don't agree with, but I only coach the game.


Makes sense, although I don't think that if there's a reason against something, then there shouldn't be a rule against it. I figure a guy can make a plastic butt end just as dangerous as a metal one...especially seeing how metal ones have to be attached somehow, and the act of attaching them via tape makes it so that the jagged edges are covered. I've encountered several cheaters who, when pushing an opponent with one arm, leave about an inch of the shaft stuck out so to leave a nice circular bruise. I guess I figure that no matter what the rules are, there's always going to be hacks out there who try to cheat and injure. I don't see why this clarification had to go into the books in the first place.

I'm mostly irritated that now I have to redo all 9 of my shafts and do away with my Killians and Guinness beer bottle caps...something that's a tragedy, I think we can all agree. Is this "clarification" for high school, NCAA, men's club, etc? Who does it apply and not apply to?

[LaxRef]

I'm mostly irritated that now I have to redo all 9 of my shafts and do away with my Killians and Guinness beer bottle caps...something that's a tragedy, I think we can all agree. Is this "clarification" for high school, NCAA, men's club, etc? Who does it apply and not apply to?

It's NCAA, but I'm sure it will quickly filter down to NFHS.

[LatinBabe]

Second, I do agree that metal end caps are not necessarily a safety issue. However, I have seen some players use some awfully sharp/dangerous looking plugs that really had no place on a lax field. While the rest of the shaft is made of metal, these are smooth since the player does not want to be sliding his hands up/down/over rough surfaces.

like j-walking... making people go the long route to protect those stupid enough not to look both ways before crossing. under most circumstances, metal endcaps are not a problem, but if used incorrectly, like crossin the street, it is dangerous to yourself (getting crosse removed or cutting your own hands) or to others....(hitting a pedestrian does do damage to the car, so my analogy is atleast OK.)

[Snake~eyes]

You can see the equipment LatinBabe and KOB are referring to.

This is the Brine one, check pic at bottom of first post:
http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=10618

Here is the tight butt:
http://e-lacrosse.com/stech75.html
Only thing to be careful about those caps is that it appears that it is going to extend the length of your lacrosse stick, so you better make sure you still meet the required length.

[cloo24]

does this rule apply to High schools in NH