Min number Players on the Field

[Partagas]

Regardless of the number of players in the penalty box, how many players must be on the field at one time?

After an answer I will explain an actual situation that left me fuming.

I will admit I am under impression that no matter how many players are in the box a team will only be down a maximum of 2 players from the field.

Coach Schneider

[LaxRef]

Regardless of the number of players in the penalty box, how many players must be on the field at one time?

After an answer I will explain an actual situation that left me fuming.

I will admit I am under impression that no matter how many players are in the box a team will only be down a maximum of 2 players from the field.


I don't know where you got that impression, unless you watch a lot of hockey. :chuckle:

NFHS rules: A team can be down any number of players.

NCAA rules: penalties "stack"; a team can't play more than 3 down at a time.

If you were unkind to the officials based on a mistaken impression of the rules, they would probably appreciate an apology. :chuckle:

[3rdPersonPlural]

If you were unkind to the officials based on a mistaken impression of the rules, they would probably appreciate an apology. :chuckle:

Or, to speak more resonantly to the hockey coach in you

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/42/wrong02.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=2223)

[GatorsLax]

in NCAA, you keep the minimum number of players to keep from being "offside" (i.e. 4 on D half, 3 on O half)

[flagman]

3PP, thanks for the laugh, that's a classic picture!

[lehighvalleylax]

I don't know where you got that impression, unless you watch a lot of hockey. :chuckle:

NFHS rules: A team can be down any number of players.

NCAA rules: penalties "stack"; a team can't play more than 3 down at a time.

If you were unkind to the officials based on a mistaken impression of the rules, they would probably appreciate an apology. :chuckle:

Well put LR!!

[Partagas]

Thanks GatorLax.

Sorry I asked in this forum due to the presumptive sarcastic answer from the super moderator.

The exact wording by NHFSA includes that team can be down any number of players in the penalty area.

the last two words creates my confusion as I could not find on US Lacrosse the actual number and alignment required on the field or the solution if 4 from a single team are in the penalty area at any one point in time.

And in 20+ years plus being a certified offical in three sports, one actually being hockey, I am not unkind to any official no matter the situation. I am a role model for the young men I coach.

Again Thanks

[LaxRef]

Thanks GatorLax.

Sorry I asked in this forum due to the presumptive sarcastic answer from the super moderator.

The exact wording by NHFSA includes that team can be down any number of players in the penalty area.

the last two words creates my confusion as I could not find on US Lacrosse the actual number and alignment required on the field or the solution if 4 from a single team are in the penalty area at any one point in time.

And in 20+ years plus being a certified offical in three sports, one actually being hockey, I am not unkind to any official no matter the situation. I am a role model for the young men I coach.

Again Thanks

I apologize. Your comment that you were "fuming" made me assume that you expressed that frustration to the officials, when in fact that may not have been the case.

I believe this is what you're looking for:

A team is not considered to be offside when four players or more of the same
team are in the penalty area. That team is required to have three players in the
goal half of the field and the remainder of its players in the defensive half of the
field at all times. No penalty shall result from the failure of the team to have the
required number of players in the defensive half of the field when this situation
exists.

In other words, when you take players off, you can think of it as them coming off in the order:

Middie
Defense
Goalie
Attack

Here, I'm using "middie" to mean "a player free to cross midfield without being offside" and not a specific position.

So, if you're down 5 players, you play with 3 in your attack end and 2 in your defensive end (a goalie and one other player; technically doesn't have to be a defenseman, but it usually will be).

Again, my apologies.

[CardinalPuff]

http://deadasadoornail.com/deadpeople/1d578da49e38936bc3fa5ce5ca6Warren-Oates.jpg

lighten up Francis...

[OldLaxer]

So, if you're down 5 players, you play with 3 in your attack end and 2 in your defensive end (a goalie and one other player; technically doesn't have to be a defenseman, but it usually will be).

I'm always trying to rationalize the thought behind the rule so I'm not memorizing but "understanding". This is one that tripped me up because I feel like the poor goalie is going to get KILLED. Safety be damned.
Of course it is pretty rare that 4 or more will be in the box.

[Partagas]

Great explanation, LaxRef.

This isn't the way it was inforced in Florida HS which is odd. I coached teams in the TOC and actually runner-up in the Dicks TOC U17 age group. It kind of explains why some of the teams were questioning the Florida officials not calling the games the same as they were used to. I have also seen that more contact is allowed in Cali than was in Florida too.

I am not coaching in Cali. Game is different when watching as a parent versus on the sideline.

I see your point on me saying "fuming" as well. I sit in the corner of the bleachers and mumble to myself. :)

Again thanks.

[LaxRef]

So, if you're down 5 players, you play with 3 in your attack end and 2 in your defensive end (a goalie and one other player; technically doesn't have to be a defenseman, but it usually will be).

I'm always trying to rationalize the thought behind the rule so I'm not memorizing but "understanding". This is one that tripped me up because I feel like the poor goalie is going to get KILLED. Safety be damned.
Of course it is pretty rare that 4 or more will be in the box.

The point here is that if you take players off the attack end it's no penalty at all. If you were down 3 men and you knew another foul would still leave you down 3 men in your defensive end, where it matters, you could foul with impunity know that you had 3 more time-serving penalties for "free."

True, the goalie is going to get scored on, so but I don't see how he's at much additional risk: the offense will probably be better able to place the shot where the GK isn't if they don't have to deal with all those pesky defensemen!

I can only recall one instance when I had more than 3 in the box at once for field lacrosse (it was 5 in an NFHS game). I had to stack penalties once in a college game.

[Partagas]

Here is the scenario that actually happened.

As half time started the referees picked two sticks to check. Team A's player had an illegal stick and Team B player did not. BEFORE players took field for second half Coach A then called for stick check on Team B. Team B player's stick was illegal. Now both coaches started calling random players until both teams ended up with 4 players in the penalty area for illegal sticks or asking for a stick check that ended up not being illegal.

All 8 penalites before either team fielded players for the second half although team A's original penalty was really for a first half offnse and he was on the field at the end of the half.

Team B was given the ball as a free clear to start the second half. Team B went down and scored. On the face off neither team had any midfield, kept 3 attack and they lined up just like a normal face off with no one in the attack boxes except the remaining defenders. Basically you had 3 middies and 2 defenders plus goalie on each team.

At the penalty end you had 8 players rushing the field. Team B sent all their players on the field from their own half. It seems virtually impossible that at least one of them wasn't offsides for entering on the wrong side of the half.

The whole sequence was crazy.

[LaxRef]

Here is the scenario that actually happened.

As half time started the referees picked two sticks to check. Team A's player had an illegal stick and Team B player did not. BEFORE players took field for second half Coach A then called for stick check on Team B. Team B player's stick was illegal. Now both coaches started calling random players until both teams ended up with 4 players in the penalty area for illegal sticks or asking for a stick check that ended up not being illegal.

All 8 penalites before either team fielded players for the second half although team A's original penalty was really for a first half offnse and he was on the field at the end of the half.

Team B was given the ball as a free clear to start the second half. Team B went down and scored. On the face off neither team had any midfield, kept 3 attack and they lined up just like a normal face off with no one in the attack boxes except the remaining defenders. Basically you had 3 middies and 2 defenders plus goalie on each team.

At the penalty end you had 8 players rushing the field. Team B sent all their players on the field from their own half. It seems virtually impossible that at least one of them wasn't offsides for entering on the wrong side of the half.

The whole sequence was crazy.

This is why I wrote the rule limiting stick checks to 1 per team per dead ball. NCAA included that rule, while NFHS did not.

[GatorsLax]

This isn't the way it was inforced in Florida HS which is odd.

I can't say for sure about refs anywhere else, but most of the refs I've come across as a HS player, MCLA player, and coach in Florida are not as experienced as we'd like. Many of them have little to no experience playing the game, and are usually football officials looking to keep the extra cash flowing in the "offseason." I'm just glad to have someone there to do the job. As long as they can run a clean game, I'm fine with them. And hopefully part of a "clean game" involves not needing to send more than 3 guys to the box at once.

[wolfenburg]

I don't know where you got that impression, unless you watch a lot of hockey. :chuckle:

NFHS rules: A team can be down any number of players.
:

I just wonder how you play with -1 Players on the field. (11 players in the penalty box) :chuckle: And in addition how you dress this negative player as a goalie.

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

Here is the scenario that actually happened.

As half time started the referees picked two sticks to check. Team A's player had an illegal stick and Team B player did not. BEFORE players took field for second half Coach A then called for stick check on Team B. Team B player's stick was illegal. Now both coaches started calling random players until both teams ended up with 4 players in the penalty area for illegal sticks or asking for a stick check that ended up not being illegal.

All 8 penalites before either team fielded players for the second half although team A's original penalty was really for a first half offnse and he was on the field at the end of the half.

Team B was given the ball as a free clear to start the second half. Team B went down and scored. On the face off neither team had any midfield, kept 3 attack and they lined up just like a normal face off with no one in the attack boxes except the remaining defenders. Basically you had 3 middies and 2 defenders plus goalie on each team.

At the penalty end you had 8 players rushing the field. Team B sent all their players on the field from their own half. It seems virtually impossible that at least one of them wasn't offsides for entering on the wrong side of the half.

The whole sequence was crazy.

Most coaches honor an unwritten rule about not calling stick checks on another team, though they certainly are allowed this. I do not recall a situation where a coach called for a stick check after having his player penalized during a routine check, but once again this is allowable. Sounds like in your game the coaches got carried away after the first illegal stick was flagged. Good lesson for the rest of us to prepare for this possibility.

[LaxRef]

I just wonder how you play with -1 Players on the field. (11 players in the penalty box) :chuckle: And in addition how you dress this negative player as a goalie.

You have to buy his equipment from "Antimatter Lacrosse." :laugh:


Actually, once you get to 10 players serving penalties at once, there's a bit of a conundrum (3PP got me hooked on that word): you have to have a legally-equipped goalie on the field to play in NCAA and NFHS. But there's a good chance you've called of the game long before you get to the point of having 10 guys in the box at once.

[Woodenstick]

If you go more than 6 players down, you have to move your goalie to attack, since you need three players in the attack zone and you need a goalie on the field. Hopefully the other team can score on the empty net. I have seen some teams that would have trouble doing it.

[gallbladder]

Had a humorous situation last week. Team A's coach calls for equipment check on Team B player late in the 4th quarter. All's good, no penalty.

Coach B then calls for "retaliatory" equipment check on Team A player. Uh oh, head's too narrow, 3 min UR.

So, original equipment check by Coach A backfired. Best part---the illegal stick was his son's!

[LaxRef]

Had a humorous situation last week. Team A's coach calls for equipment check on Team B player late in the 4th quarter. All's good, no penalty.

Coach B then calls for "retaliatory" equipment check on Team A player. Uh oh, head's too narrow, 3 min UR.

So, original equipment check by Coach A backfired. Best part---the illegal stick was his son's!

I have seen the "backfire" situation a great many times. People who live in glass houses. . . .

[3rdPersonPlural]

there's a bit of a conundrum (3PP got me hooked on that word):

Hey, homie, the first ones free. You want more, you gotta bring your game checks.......:nut: