Weekend Poll Damage 3/30

[jdturtle02]

Hey guys, just got back from College Park -- yeah, it's still a little rowdy up there -- and saw some of you already commenting about the polls. I like the idea of dropping the date and just running a continuous thread, but that may get confusing. Start it up next time, you all.

Here's my early guess how it may all shake out ... just to get this thing rolling. I'll have further comments, I'm sure. Still have to digest it all. But one thing is pretty clear, there's a couple more teams trying to get on that bus to the Final Four than there were last week.

1. Duke (10-1)
2. Syracuse (7-1)
3. Maryland (7-2)
4. Virginia (9-1)
5. Georgetown (5-2)
6. North Carolina (7-2)
7. Cornell (7-1)
8. Notre Dame (7-1)
9. Navy (8-2)
10. Drexel (8-2)

11. UMBC (5-3)
12. Johns Hopkins (3-4)
13. Army (7-2)
14. Princeton (4-3)
15. Bucknell (7-2)

[laxer6]

1. Duke (10-1)
2. Syracuse (7-1)
3. Maryland (7-2)
4. Virginia (9-1)
5. North Carolina (7-2)
6. Georgetown (5-2)
7. Cornell (7-1)
8. Notre Dame (7-1)
9. Navy (8-2)
10. Drexel (8-2)

Basically the same as yours I have UNC one spot higher though.

12. Army (7-2)
13. Bucknell (7-2)
14. Johns Hopkins (3-4)
15. Princeton (4-3)

I don't want to put Princeton this high but with Delaware losing I am not sure who can go here. I still like Army and Bucknell over Hopkins and Princeton. All of a sudden the Patriot League is looking real nice.

[jdturtle02]

Yeah ... I really think you put the top six in a bag and pick a name, with the possible exception of Duke. Everyone has a bad game or two, but the Blue Devils still look like the best to me. I'm not so sure about Princeton, but I am about Hopkins. They'll be on the winning track again soon. You look at the top six, and you're looking at the Hopkins schedule.

[laxer6]

Agreed you could close your eyes pick teams 2-6 and have a legit top 10.

[stegmakk]

I'll have to wait until Monday as my file that assigns points for Quality wins is at work...
I agree that the top 4-6 could be anyone...
Hopkins I will need to run the numbers on...14/15/or not on the top15 is my gut reaction...
if close losses counted Ohio State would be in the top 15 (5-3, all 3 losses OT - Navy, Bucknellin 3OT, UMBC in 2OT)
same deal with Albany...

[muleman]

Army, at this point, deserves to be in the top 8. They've lost two games by one goal each to Syracuse and Cornell. They've shown they can win from behind. Their defense is one of the top 5. They have one of the top goalkeepers in Adam Fullerton. They now have at least 6 shooters who are serious threats. And they're Army - they're in better shape than any other team (Navy included) so as the season goes on they will only get stronger.

We'll know soon enough - Bucknell, Navy and Duke in the next three weeks.

[lax-crazy]

nice to see Duke back at the top.



I personaly think they never should have left it lol. Even with a one goal lose

[number19pjj]

1. duke
2. syracuse
3. uva
4. umd
5. north carolina
6. georgetown
7. navy
8. notre dame
9. cornell
10.army

[DJ Death]

nice to see Duke back at the top.



I personaly think they never should have left it lol. Even with a one goal lose
they didn't lose by one goal. gtown beat them 11-7.

[lax-crazy]

they didn't lose by one goal. gtown beat them 11-7.

I ment one game

I forgot to edit it lol

[stegmakk]

The IL poll is up:
1 Syracuse 7-1
2 Duke 10-1
3 Maryland 7-2
4 Virginia 9-1
5 Georgetown 5-2
6 North Carolina 7-2
7 Notre Dame 7-1
8 Cornell 7-1
9 Navy 8-2
10 Johns Hopkins 3-4
11 Army 7-2
12 UMBC 5-3
13 Drexel 8-2
14 Princeton 4-3
15 Bucknell 7-2
16 Brown 6-2
17 Ohio State 5-3
18 Delaware 7-3
19 Hofstra 3-4
20 Loyola 4-4

Coach's Poll:

1 Syracuse
2 Duke
3 Maryland
4 Virginia
5 Georgetown
6 North Carolina
7 Cornell
8 Notre Dame
9 Navy
10 Drexel
11 Johns Hopkins
12 UMBC
13 Bucknell
14 Army
15 Princeton
16 Brown
17 Delaware
18 Ohio State
19 Denver
20 Hofstra

And Laxpower Poll:

1 Syracuse
2 Duke
3 Maryland
4 Virginia
5 Georgetown
6 North Carolina
7 Notre Dame
8 Cornell
9 Navy
10 Drexel
11 Johns Hopkins
12 Army
13 UMBC
14 Bucknell
15 Princeton
16 Delaware
17 Hofstra
18 Loyola
19 Denver
20 Brown

[laxmaniac101]

while 3-4 isnt great im pretty sure that Army, UMBC etc. would be 3-4 or worse if they played hopkins schedule

[stegmakk]

My Take:
1. MD
2. UVA
3. Duke
4. GT
5. Cuse
6. UNC
7. UMBC
8. Cornell
9. ND
10. Navy
11. Hopkins

Why did I put Cuse so low? Well 1-6 is a toss up. MD has two wins over top 5 teams, and one win over 6-10.
The way I see it MD has to be #1 with everyone else 2-6.
I was surprised to see Hopkins in 11 when I crunched the numbers. Their 2 wins over 11-15 teams keeps them in the hunt for mediocre teams. If either of those teams drop, so does Hopkins.
Drexel is not in mine because they only have 1 decent win over a 16-20 ranked team.

[muleman]

Hopkins schedule to-date - are you kidding?


03/01/08 vs. Princeton W, 14-9
03/04/08 vs. UMBC W, 10-8
03/08/08 at Hofstra L, 8-7 (OT)
03/15/08 vs. Syracuse L, 14-13 (OT)
03/22/08 at Virginia TV L, 12-13 (OT)
03/29/08 vs. North Carolina L, 13-8

Army lost to Cornell and Syracuse each by 1 goal. Beat Hofstra (hmmm, I think I see an L up above). Handily beat Colgate. Swamped VMI and Air Force. Beat a good Lehigh team that wouldn't quit.

And Hopkins plays some weak teams at the tail end of its schedule.

We'll know a lot more after Army plays Bucknell, Navy and Duke in the next two weeks.

[Habach]

Cuse is so overrated it makes me mad!

[jdturtle02]

Obviously I think steg-man has it right ... but putting all seriousness aside :-), I'm not surprised by either the Nike/IL, LaxPower or Coaches polls. To be honest, I was a little worried about stegmakk's computer, glad it put Hopkins at No. 11, and can definitely see Nike/IL's No. 10 and the Coaches No. 11. Looks like we're all in agreement the Jays are still very much alive.

Hang tough muleman, I'm with you on Army as a legit top ten candidate, but there's a logjam up there right now that won't be in a couple of weeks. The Black Knights have their opportunities, but that's a killer schedule, man. And congrats Drexel, consensus top ten. Now you're going to see how that makes every game a whole lot more intense! It's been fun to watch the Dragons climb that mountain over the last two years.

For what it's worth, also impressed with Brown and Ohio State. Had the Bucks at No. 16, with Brown right behind. When was the last time there were four or five bonafide contenders for the Ivy crown? This could be a great race.

[Hovallax41]

1. Duke
2. Cuse
3.Maryland
4. UVA
5.Notre Dame 5/6 is up in the air
6.North Carolina
7.Cornell
8.Army
9.Navy
10. Hopkins

[laxer6]

Hopkins being in the top 10 really does make me sick. Their defense is getting killed and they can't beat anyone. But some how they are still in the top ten every week. If they lose to Duke this week and are still at a 10-12 spot I am just going to give up on rankings. I don't care how good the teams that beat them are they are still 3-4.

[stegmakk]

There is still alot of lax to be played.
I am a big believer in ranks should be what have you accomplished, not what CAN you accomplish or what were you close to accomplishing.

OSU looks good, but like Hopkins, close losses don't count. They might impress late in the season.

Hop - I am the first to say 3-4 is not a top 10 team, however, 2 of their 3 wins ARE above 11-15 teams. Something many 6-3, 7-2 teams can't say. So I can't totally discount them...yet...

Drexel, I like em...They just have 1 win over a 15-20 team. No other ranked wins...need to show they deserve it more with some Q wins.

Army's W over Hofstra (IMHO) isn't spectacular because as mutch as I love the Dutch, they don't deserve a high ranking (see the trickle down of a lower Hopkins?) If they can beat Buck and or Navy, that will skyrocket them into top 15/10.

What I think is MOST surprising...all 3 poll groups agree on 1-6 exactly.

[laxer6]

I am very surprised that Syracuse was #1 in all 3 polls. I thought some where Duke would have the number 1 slot.

[helix28]

The IL poll is up:


Coach's Poll:


And Laxpower Poll:

hi, can someone clear this up for me? i dont understand why syracuse is number one when they have one lose like duke and virginia yet duke has played 11 games and virgINa HAS played 10 and cuse has only played 8. Im willing to bet alot of money that syracuse would lose another game if they played three more games from their schedule standpoint. So back to my question why are they number one and played 3 games less then duke?

[spenny]

Hopkins being in the top 10 really does make me sick. Their defense is getting killed and they can't beat anyone. But some how they are still in the top ten every week. If they lose to Duke this week and are still at a 10-12 spot I am just going to give up on rankings. I don't care how good the teams that beat them are they are still 3-4.


going 3-4 against Princeton, UMBC, Hofstra, Syracuse, Virginia and North Carolina is not the same thing as going 3-4 against Sienna, Sacred Heart, Canisius, Bellarmine, VMI, Wagner and Robert Morris.

the polls reward teams that play tough schedules. whats the point of winning if all your wins come against unranked teams?

[helix28]

hi, can someone clear this up for me? i dont understand why syracuse is number one when they have one lose like duke and virginia yet duke has played 11 games and virgINa HAS played 10 and cuse has only played 8. Im willing to bet alot of money that syracuse would lose another game if they played three more games from their schedule standpoint. So back to my question why are they number one and played 3 games less then duke?

[jdturtle02]

I think spenny said it as well as anyone could ... no one can watch every game, but the voters study the games, cover the games and coach the games. I've seen Hopkins against Princeton, No. 1 Syracuse and No. 4 Virginia, and despite the record (3-4), the Jays were better or equal to all of them on game day. To me, an overtime win is not the same thing as "beating" an opponent, I'm old school enough (sorry stegmakk) to call it what it is -- even. I think the Jays' ranking is justified based on performance against the nation's top teams ... but they need to make a statement soon.

Helix28, if your question is rhetorical I'll feel a little stoopid later, but the polls are a week-by-week assessment, not necessarily a season-long overview (that's for the NCAA Selection Committee). Where these teams start each week has a significant impact on where they end up after the weekend's final horn sounds.

Nike/IL -- Had Duke and Syracuse tied for No. 2 last week. The Orange beat Loyola and Hobart -- two traditional powers -- by a combined 26-13; Duke beat Harvard and Dartmouth -- good wins, but not quite on the same level -- by a combined 26-12. I can understand the nudge for the northern region's top franchise. Next closest runner is Cornell at No. 8/7, and they're not grabbing any votes from the Orange.

Coaches -- Had Syracuse at No. 2 and Duke at No. 3 last week, they simply bumped them up. Am surprised somewhat by the big edge in the Orange's No. 1 votes though, 8-3. I expect that to change over the next few weeks ... maybe. Duke will be facing Hopkins, Virginia, Army and at least one (probably two) top ten foes in the ACC Tournament. Syracuse will take on Princeton and Cornell. From here on out, Duke has far more opportunities to impress the voters, but also far more serious challenges to withstand.

LaxPower Forum -- I don't have a clue.

[laxer6]

I understand Hopkins has hands down the toughest schedule in the nation but they only have one quality win. Bucknell doesn't really have a quality win but they are 7-2 with those 2 losses coming to top 10 programs. I am not saying Bucknell has a program like Hopkins but I feel the polls are keeping them in due to the fact that they are Johns Hopkins.

[stegmakk]

I understand Hopkins has hands down the toughest schedule in the nation but they only have one quality win. Bucknell doesn't really have a quality win but they are 7-2 with those 2 losses coming to top 10 programs. I am not saying Bucknell has a program like Hopkins but I feel the polls are keeping them in due to the fact that they are Johns Hopkins.

I thought that too at first. I mean I think their playoff chances are all but gone : http://laxspot.com/blogs/thoughts_from_a_dinosaur/index.php?pst_id=100209
However as of right now Hopkins DOES have TWO quality wins (#12UMBC & #15Princeton).
Bucknell only has OSU (#18).
Same reason I discounted Drexel 's only W over Hofstra
FWIW...In my poll I didn't rely on SOS unless it was a tie breaker.