Offensive Stalling

[NewRefInGA]

I have a couple of questions about this rule...

First, I realize that in the last two minutes of the game, the team with the lead must "keep it in".

However, in 6-10-2-b, it says "The ball goes out of the goal area in any manner except as a result of a shot on goal or deflection by the defense. ... The ball shall be recovered or awarded to defense if offense touches ball before defense gains possession."

What about a check that causes A to lose possession, the ball rolls outside of the zone, and A is the first to touch it. Is this considered a deflection by the defense?

Now, taking the final 2 minutes out of the equation.

6-10-2-a says "a stalling warning shall be made when it is obvious that a team is keeping a ball from play"

A situation like this occurred in a recent game. One team had the ball at the top of the zone, and was basically playing catch. When the count gets to 7 or 8, they step into the zone and then pass it back out. They do this repeatedly.

When, or would you ever, give the stalling warning? Also, what if they were serving a penalty (3- min non-releaseable for illegal cross, for example). It's obvious that they are stalling for time to kill the penalty.

Also, 6-10-2-a makes no mention of the score. What if the game were tied, rather than A in the lead?

With all of the other stuff I have to learn, this is probably lower on the list, than most other things, but I was curious. I am not complaining, because this situation gave me time to catch my breath, but while they were abiding by the letter of the rule, it seemed like they were violating the "spirit" of the rule.

[farside268]

I'll break my answer in to two parts:

1. Being checked out of the box when a stall warning is on is good defence by team B. Unless team B actually touches the ball before it leaves the box, it will be awarded to the defence.

2. As for the stall warning, there is definitely an element of judgement. That judgement will take into account the level of play and skill of the players. That being said, I tend to be pretty aggressive with the stall warnings with competitive teams (JV and up). I look for the opportunity early so we don't end up with a situation where a team that has been playing rather passively suddenly gets hit in the fourth quarter. However, if a team has been playing aggressively the whole game and backs off to protect a late lead, they should still expect to be warned.

[Woodenstick]

268 is on target. I would add that you can be called for stalling when you are man down. The situation you described sounds like it definitely was stalling.

[3rdPersonPlural]

One of the wise old greybeards of this forum noted a while back that the trigger for putting a stall warning was when the officials got bored.

The scenario you gave, Newlax, certainly sounds boring. However, you'd best check with your partner before making a unilateral decision to warn. This is partly because you are probably the new guy on the field, and partly because it's protocol.

Proper protocol/mechanic is to get your partners attention and cross your arms over your tummy, which is the signal for stalling. It is also the universal body language for indignant boredom, so he should get that you're hankering to get the show back on the road.

If he is suffering ennui as well, he'll reply by throwing up a warning, which you echo.

Hope that helps.

[NewRefInGA]

Thanks all. I thought I would ask the Jedi council for advice before acting on this. And yes, to definitely confer with my partner prior to making this call.

My association has a "bull session" scheduled for tonight, I'll bring it up there as well.

Now, here's another issue that I was wondering about- sort of the mirror image of the one mentioned above.

B11 gains possession in his defensive zone, he winds up and throws the ball as far as he can, to no one in particular, in fact there is not another B player in the same zip code. The ball ends up either going out of bounds, or A eventually tracks it down, and starts back the other way.

Is there a Lacrosse equivalent to "icing" in hockey? If this is done repeatedly, could this be viewed as a type of stalling? I realize that this is probably more a comment on the skill level of the teams I have been calling rather than a rules question.

[3rdPersonPlural]

That's called a Gilman clear, although Gilman used to throw to a very specific zip code and have an attackman vectored there,

It's legal. When two incompetent defenses play 'dueling Gilmans', the officials can run a lot, if they're conscientious, or just end up hanging out at their respective GLE's until the foolishness is over.

[LaxRef]

It's legal. When two incompetent defenses play 'dueling Gilmans', the officials can run a lot, if they're conscientious, or just end up hanging out at their respective GLE's until the foolishness is over.

I often consider the probability that the ball just comes right back to my end before I bust my butt as trail on a clear. The more likely it is to come back, the slower I run.

A rule of thumb on stalling that you will not ever see written down is that by the time a team has had possession for 45 seconds you should be thinking about stalling if they aren't trying to create a scoring opportunity, and if they've had it for 1:00 without doing so it should definitely be stalling. But you'll never see this written down, so you couldn't possibly know about it.

[stripes182]

One of the wise old greybeards of this forum noted a while back that the trigger for putting a stall warning was when the officials got bored.

HEY! My beard may be notable and obviously word of it has spread even further west, but it is DEFINITELY not gray. Let's just put it this way, when I moved to my new district (think VERY many officials), I picked my birth year as my number.

And stop making fun of my lacrosse ADD... I still live by that rule, even more so as the level of play increases. I'm still young enough to say "it's all in the flow, baby!"

[hymie]

I have a follow-up question.

I read (probably here) that the typical mechanic is to (try to) call the stall warning when the offense has the ball behind the goal. That avoids the problem of a stall warning and a violation occurring almost simultaneously.

In this situation...


One team had the ball at the top of the zone, and was basically playing catch. When the count gets to 7 or 8, they step into the zone and then pass it back out. They do this repeatedly.

Is that the offense's tough tooties if they don't bring the ball "far" into the box, or will you maybe give a "pre-stall" warning that if they do that again, they'll get a stall warning, and then it's their problem?

[LaxRef]

I have a follow-up question.

I read (probably here) that the typical mechanic is to (try to) call the stall warning when the offense has the ball behind the goal. That avoids the problem of a stall warning and a violation occurring almost simultaneously.

In this situation...



Is that the offense's tough tooties if they don't bring the ball "far" into the box, or will you maybe give a "pre-stall" warning that if they do that again, they'll get a stall warning, and then it's their problem?

If they're playing tag-up, I'll yell, "Blue is going to have to keep it in" and then put the stall on the next time they step in. This avoids the "gotcha" call.

[MElaxRef]

Proper protocol/mechanic is to get your partners attention and cross your arms over your tummy, which is the signal for stalling. It is also the universal body language for indignant boredom, so he should get that you're hankering to get the show back on the road.

If he is suffering ennui as well, he'll reply by throwing up a warning, which you echo.

Hope that helps.

A variation on the mechanic described by 3PP is useful when the players or coaches recognize the meaning of crossing your arms, that is, the stalling stops when you cross your arms.

The variation is to yell to your partner "I'm thinking about it!" or "What do you think?" If your partner gives you the nod, then put on the stall warning.

[laxfan25]

We had a discussion a while ago about the ball rolling or being passed out of the box when the offense has to keep it in, and when you should whistle and award to the other team.
The consensus seemed to be (especially in the last two minutes) that as soon as the ball leaves the box (caused by the offense) that we should whistle and award. This preserves time on the clock for the trailing team, and there is really no way the attack could gain possession anyway without the D getting it first. As an adjunct, if an attacker is cradling the ball and just touches the line we're going to have an immediate whistle, so why not do the same on a loose ball?
This quick whistle on exit is the mechanic I've been teaching my trainees - are you good with it?

[LaxRef]

We had a discussion a while ago about the ball rolling or being passed out of the box when the offense has to keep it in, and when you should whistle and award to the other team.
The consensus seemed to be (especially in the last two minutes) that as soon as the ball leaves the box (caused by the offense) that we should whistle and award. This preserves time on the clock for the trailing team, and there is really no way the attack could gain possession anyway without the D getting it first. As an adjunct, if an attacker is cradling the ball and just touches the line we're going to have an immediate whistle, so why not do the same on a loose ball?
This quick whistle on exit is the mechanic I've been teaching my trainees - are you good with it?

Yes. The wording in the rulebook needs to be cleaned up here.

[ref4ee]

We had a discussion a while ago about the ball rolling or being passed out of the box when the offense has to keep it in, and when you should whistle and award to the other team.
The consensus seemed to be (especially in the last two minutes) that as soon as the ball leaves the box (caused by the offense) that we should whistle and award. This preserves time on the clock for the trailing team, and there is really no way the attack could gain possession anyway without the D getting it first. As an adjunct, if an attacker is cradling the ball and just touches the line we're going to have an immediate whistle, so why not do the same on a loose ball?
This quick whistle on exit is the mechanic I've been teaching my trainees - are you good with it?
How would you handle the following:

Stall warning has been issued (2 min or otherwise). Offense causes the ball to leave the box on the side, but it is moving fast enough (maybe even with a bounce or two) that no one will be able to make a play on it.

Scenario 1: Immediate whistle for delay. Award to defensive team with a quick restart.

Scenario 2: Let it go out of bounds on the sideline. Allow a horn and restart within 20 seconds.

The letter of the law would argue toward Scenario 1, while the spirit of Scenario 2 is to give the, now new, offensive team the opportunity to get the right players on the field.

How would you handle it?

[CardinalPuff]

How would you handle the following:

Stall warning has been issued (2 min or otherwise). Offense causes the ball to leave the box on the side, but it is moving fast enough (maybe even with a bounce or two) that no one will be able to make a play on it.

Scenario 1: Immediate whistle for delay. Award to defensive team with a quick restart.

Scenario 2: Let it go out of bounds on the sideline. Allow a horn and restart within 20 seconds.

The letter of the law would argue toward Scenario 1, while the spirit of Scenario 2 is to give the, now new, offensive team the opportunity to get the right players on the field.

How would you handle it?

recently happened in a game....A1 whistled a pass through the crease and out of bounds on the fly....didn't even have time to raise my hand or even shout "play on".....

it wasn't the easiest sale but i did not allow the horn.

[LaxRef]

recently happened in a game....A1 whistled a pass through the crease and out of bounds on the fly....didn't even have time to raise my hand or even shout "play on".....

it wasn't the easiest sale but i did not allow the horn.

I've been convinced to treat this situation as the ball going OOB being the action ending the play-on, thus allowing the horn. The rules are vague on what to do when there is a foul and an OOB.

[scott68111]

I've been convinced to treat this situation as the ball going OOB being the action ending the play-on, thus allowing the horn. The rules are vague on what to do when there is a foul and an OOB.


Based on the above, tonight I had a play-on loose ball push, the offending team then immediately kicked the ball OOB. The other team was in position to immediately restart so we rolled with the quick restart, no horn, no one complained but after the game my partner (senior official in our area) asked why I went with the quick restart on the OOB and no horn, told him based on the loose ball push, team B would have been disadvantaged by allowing the horn. He said OK, nobody *****ed, Team B missed the shot on the break and had no one backing up the short so Team A got the ball back. Your thoughts on this???

[LaxRef]

Based on the above, tonight I had a play-on loose ball push, the offending team then immediately kicked the ball OOB. The other team was in position to immediately restart so we rolled with the quick restart, no horn, no one complained but after the game my partner (senior official in our area) asked why I went with the quick restart on the OOB and no horn, told him based on the loose ball push, team B would have been disadvantaged by allowing the horn. He said OK, nobody *****ed, Team B missed the shot on the break and had no one backing up the short so Team A got the ball back. Your thoughts on this???

What you did is actually the opposite of what I was saying: I think, since it's vague, you're better off allowing the horn in these situations. The rules say:

Substitution of players may be made when play has been
suspended by the officials, except as stated in Section 22 of this rule.
Before being eligible to enter the field of play, a substitute must:

a. Wait until a goal is scored, a time-serving penalty is reported, or the
timekeeper sounds the horn after a sideline out of bounds, indicating to
the officials a substitution is desired.

It doesn't say you can't get a horn if the sideline OOB ends a play-on.

[itsthatkid]

Not to digress, but I have a question and do not think it deserves a thread.

For the last two years I've had the same coach. When he wants to set up an offense or just slow it down a lot, he will have me go to the top of the box or sometimes outside the box and just stand there. Personally I always thought it was stalling, as I'm not looking to pass, or making a move. I just stand there and if the D guy comes out, I dodge, but if not I chill there for a bit.

I've never been called for it or even warned, so I'm sort of confused as to if it is grounds for a stalling call or not.

[LaxRef]

Not to digress, but I have a question and do not think it deserves a thread.

For the last two years I've had the same coach. When he wants to set up an offense or just slow it down a lot, he will have me go to the top of the box or sometimes outside the box and just stand there. Personally I always thought it was stalling, as I'm not looking to pass, or making a move. I just stand there and if the D guy comes out, I dodge, but if not I chill there for a bit.

I've never been called for it or even warned, so I'm sort of confused as to if it is grounds for a stalling call or not.

It depends how long you do it. Eventually, that should draw a stall warning.