"Time Has Come Today" Quiz

[eme]

You have re-started play in A's offensive end with A in possession.
A short while later you hear a ruckus from the table area and the benches...."Ref! the clock hasn-t started!!!!" For you bigshots that means the clock at the Class of 1952 Stadium. For the rest of us it means the freshman girlfriend of the goalie from Team B has dropped her Casio in the mud.

Scene 1: Play is settled at this point, A in possession

Scene 2: A is driving for the cage at this point

Scene 3: A scores. Then whistle blows.

What do you do in each scene above? Now, most of you smart fellows are going to throw NCAA 7-12 AR 60 or Federation 7-13 Situation E at me and they have the exact same wording. I want to know what "...have correct time
put back on the clock" means. Can you defend your answer with proof from the rulebook?

A Chambers Brother

[Snake~eyes]

You have re-started play in A's offensive end with A in possession.
A short while later you hear a ruckus from the table area and the benches...."Ref! the clock hasn-t started!!!!" For you bigshots that means the clock at the Class of 1952 Stadium. For the rest of us it means the freshman girlfriend of the goalie from Team B has dropped her Casio in the mud.

Scene 1: Play is settled at this point, A in possession

Scene 2: A is driving for the cage at this point

Scene 3: A scores. Then whistle blows.

What do you do in each scene above? Now, most of you smart fellows are going to throw NCAA 7-12 AR 60 or Federation 7-13 Situation E at me and they have the exact same wording. I want to know what "...have correct time
put back on the clock" means. Can you defend your answer with proof from the rulebook?

A Chambers Brother
I don't really know, I glanced in the rulebook but am not sure if theres any proof. To me "correct time" means I must have definite knowledge of how much time went off. If I saw the clock wasn't starting I guess I would start a visual count. If I didnt know then I can't take time off so I would have to just let it go and make sure the clock starts. What does everyone else think?

[Laxref_36]

Snake,

I'm with you on this one. I'd glance up at the clock to get a starting time (if visible), and start a visual count.

In scene one I'd be more inclined to kill the play if nothing is going on.

In scene two, I'd keep a visual count going till the next dead ball.

In scene three, the ball is dead and unless one of my partners had a count, or there is another clock (penalty time?), your just guessing. I'd talk to the table then adjust the clock accordingly, if you can.

Anyone else, anyone, anyone, Beuler ....

[LaxRef]

You have re-started play in A's offensive end with A in possession.
A short while later you hear a ruckus from the table area and the benches...."Ref! the clock hasn-t started!!!!" For you bigshots that means the clock at the Class of 1952 Stadium. For the rest of us it means the freshman girlfriend of the goalie from Team B has dropped her Casio in the mud.

Scene 1: Play is settled at this point, A in possession

Scene 2: A is driving for the cage at this point

Scene 3: A scores. Then whistle blows.

What do you do in each scene above? Now, most of you smart fellows are going to throw NCAA 7-12 AR 60 or Federation 7-13 Situation E at me and they have the exact same wording. I want to know what "...have correct time put back on the clock" means. Can you defend your answer with proof from the rulebook?

A Chambers Brother

I noticed the "have the correct time put back on the clock" provision the first time I read the rules. The implication--false, of course--is that you're supposed to be keeping the time on the field somehow.

I think you're supposed to guess, which doesn't make a lot of sense. In the middle of the game, it doesn't make much difference. At the end, hoo boy!

In situation 1, I'd stop the game, estimate how much time had passed--before seeing how much time is left--and have them run it off the clock. If that takes the clock to 0, the game is over.

In situation 2, the AR talks about waiting for possession and then blowing the whistle to get things sorted out. I think you blow the whistle immediately.

In situation 3, I think I'd do the same thing as in 1. If I estimate that the play took longer than the time that was remaining, no goal. Otherwise,the goal is good.


In all cases, the benefit of the doubt goes to the away team. If the home team complains, I tell them to get a competent timer next timer. I think you have to go this way, since otherwise you're just encouraging "home cooking" in close games. For example, in situation 2, if the home team was trailing or had possession, I'd likely have time run off the clock. Otherwise, I might just restart play with the clock where it was. This is not supported explicitly by anything in the rules, but I think of it as TPOAD.

BTW, the AR only talks about "after the opening faceoff." I think they purposely avoid the end-of-game situation because it's difficult to give any clear rules about a timing screw-up.

All of this is much less of an issue when the clock is visible, but in most high school and USLIA games you don't have a visible clock.

[eme]

With no clear mandate from the rulebook, I guess you can argue that play starts or the game begins with the sounding of the whistle...not with the starting of the clock. If the clock doesn't keep up with the whistle, then you have to stop and re-adjust the clock DOWN. In no case would you go back and re-set the clock to what it was when the whistle blew...if you have started play, the time has ticked down even if the clock hasn't.

Two things you can do to minimize the brou-ha-ha. One is to instruct the timer before the game to start counting to himself or aloud if the clock malfunctions. The second is to have an official keep his eye on the clock re-start in the last 2o seconds or so of a period. Just a quick glance by the off-ball official to see that the clock is moving. This is not so crucial in the middle of a period or during a blow-out game.
So, regarding the situations above
1. I'd kill play immediately. Go to table and get their/your best guess on the time remaining and re-set clock.
2. I'd let the guy in the midst of driving go to the cage and attempt a shot. When play has ended, then I'd whistle. Go to table, etc.....as above
3. Goal. Go to table and...as above

[LaxRef]

With no clear mandate from the rulebook, I guess you can argue that play starts or the game begins with the sounding of the whistle...not with the starting of the clock. If the clock doesn't keep up with the whistle, then you have to stop and re-adjust the clock DOWN. In no case would you go back and re-set the clock to what it was when the whistle blew...if you have started play, the time has ticked down even if the clock hasn't.

And, of course, the issue is that you have no idea how much time elapsed.

Two things you can do to minimize the brou-ha-ha. One is to instruct the timer before the game to start counting to himself or aloud if the clock malfunctions. The second is to have an official keep his eye on the clock re-start in the last 20 seconds or so of a period. Just a quick glance by the off-ball official to see that the clock is moving. This is not so crucial in the middle of a period or during a blow-out game.

Again, this is only practical where there is a visible clock.

So, regarding the situations above
1. I'd kill play immediately. Go to table and get their/your best guess on the time remaining and re-set clock.
2. I'd let the guy in the midst of driving go to the cage and attempt a shot. When play has ended, then I'd whistle. Go to table, etc.....as above
3. Goal. Go to table and...as above

Hmm. Two questions: how do you reconcile letting play continue when the implication of the AR is that you stop play when there is possession? And what do you do in 2 and 3 if a goal is scored, but when you estimate the time elapsed it turns out the game would have ended before the goal scored?

I think it's crucial that you stop play immediately so a goal is not scored and you keep out of having your estimate determine whether or not the goal counts (especially since most people are hoorible at estimating time; witness the number of officials who do "10-second counts" that last 20 seconds).

Also, do you handle things any differently when you think there's a chance the "malfunction" is due to the home team timer manipulating the clock while his or her team was trying to make a comeback?

[eme]

Excellent advice. I think as a rule of thumb you would indeed be better off stopping the play when the re-start is 30 seconds or less to the end of a period. In other cases (with more time in the period), you could let an imminent scoring play continue. I am not talking about a dodger here working a D man; I am speaking of an outright direct rush to the goal.