Cage is moved and Then Goal is Scored

[eme]

Since it's off-season and no one has games to go to...here is another Quiz.

Attackman A legally bodychecks Defenseman B so that he staggers into the unsecured goal and moves it off the goal line. Just after this, attackman A2 fires the ball into the net.

Your call? Your reasons ? Your backup, if any. from the rulebook?

[LaxRef]

Since it's off-season and no one has games to go to...here is another Quiz.

Attackman A legally bodychecks Defenseman B so that he staggers into the unsecured goal and moves it off the goal line. Just after this, attackman A2 fires the ball into the net.

Your call? Your reasons ? Your backup, if any. from the rulebook?

I had something similar happen in the state high school tournament. The were using collapsible goals--provided by the league--and one of them wasn't locked properly. When the goalie moved to cover the post, his shoulder bumped the goal and the laft side of the goal flopped back (so the top left corner of the goal was back about 8-12" from where it should have been). I blew the whistle immediately, and the attackman with the ball turned around and shot; of course, the ball went in. No goal. It was after the whistle, and I had to blow the whistle because the whole "breaking the plane of the goal/crossing the goal line" is now ill-defined.

I don't have any rule backup for this ruling, other than you can't play without the goals being set up properly.

Care must be taken to assure that the defense isn't doing it on purpose; if you think they are, call a USC foul. (BTW, I still contend that the situation in NCAA Rule 4, AR 113, should be "flagrant misconduct" and an ejection, not a mere 3:00 USC. What can be more flagrant than pulling the goal over your head to prevent a goal?).

BTW, I'm assuming in your scenario the ball was loose when the bodycheck took place and then A2 scooped and shot the ball.

[Snake~eyes]

Care must be taken to assure that the defense isn't doing it on purpose; if you think they are, call a USC foul. (BTW, I still contend that the situation in NCAA Rule 4, AR 113, should be "flagrant misconduct" and an ejection, not a mere 3:00 USC. What can be more flagrant than pulling the goal over your head to prevent a goal).
I guess NFHS doesn't share the ejection in the caseplay? I'd be tempted to eject someone for it in NFHS.

[eme]

There is nothing in either rulebook that covers this rare occurance. However, I will relay to you what Roy Condon said to the opposing coach after a similar situation happened in a game he was doing. Cage had moved off line somewhat (obviously not upside down or totally askew...but off line somewhat). Coach, of course said it couldn't be a goal because the cage had moved.

Roy said," Coach, I know the cage moved...but the goal line never did. It's a goal."

[LaxRef]

There is nothing in either rulebook that covers this rare occurance. However, I will relay to you what Roy Condon said to the opposing coach after a similar situation happened in a game he was doing. Cage had moved off line somewhat (obviously not upside down or totally askew...but off line somewhat). Coach, of course said it couldn't be a goal because the cage had moved.

Roy said," Coach, I know the cage moved...but the goal line never did. It's a goal."

I agree that you could allow the goal if you hand't blown the whistle. But if the goal moved significantly, wouldn't you blow the whistle to stop play and get it fixed?

And do you agree it should be an ejection instead of a 3:00 USC for pulling the goal down over your head to prevent a goal.

[CTLaxer]

Our league mandates that the home team secure all goals to the ground so they cannot be accidentily dislodged during play. It is enforcable by penalty I believe. Can't say i've ever seen a goal secured to the ground, nor have i seen a team get a penalty for it, but apparently the rule exists though i seem to not be able to find it at the moment.

[eme]

On grass fields goals should be secured with 6" sleeve extending down into ground. But most high-schools don't have 'em nor can you do anything but have flatiron goals on artificial turf fields.

If you have blown the whistle, of course a goal can't be allowed after that moment. I am talking about a bang-bang play..cage moves slightly and then while your whistle is heading to your lips there's a shot and the ball is in the net. Of course, given more time, you'd kill the play asap especially since attack has possession (remember it was the clumsy D man who moved the cage so I would really like to give the ball back to the attack...if ball was loose I would wait until there is a possession before killing the play.)

The rule on 3-min penalty for goalie or defense pulling goal over his head is very explicit. It's an AR. When it's that explicit in the rulebook, it would be hard to sell an ejection.

[LaxRef]

On grass fields goals should be secured with 6" sleeve extending down into ground. But most high-schools don't have 'em nor can you do anything but have flatiron goals on artificial turf fields.

If you read the NCAA rules carefully, they require a flat-iron goal used on a natural surface to be anchored to the ground. Obtuse-angle and 90-degree-angle goals need not be. I never understood why they make that distinction. Furthermore, I'm amazed at how few people--officials and coaches--in the midwest are aware of this rule.

Also, I don't see where it says you have to have a flat-iron goal on an artificial surface.

If you have blown the whistle, of course a goal can't be allowed after that moment. I am talking about a bang-bang play..cage moves slightly and then while your whistle is heading to your lips there's a shot and the ball is in the net. Of course, given more time, you'd kill the play asap especially since attack has possession (remember it was the clumsy D man who moved the cage so I would really like to give the ball back to the attack...if ball was loose I would wait until there is a possession before killing the play.)

I guess I can see that.


The rule on 3-min penalty for goalie or defense pulling goal over his head is very explicit. It's an AR. When it's that explicit in the rulebook, it would be hard to sell an ejection.

Oh, I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying is, don't you think that pulling the goal over one's head to prevent a goal *should* be listed in the rulebook as a case of flagrant misconduct and an ejection? I mean, if that's not flagrant misconduct, I guess I just don't know what is.

You're right, if it happens, you have to go with the AR. I just think it's not enough of a penalty.

[eme]

you are right...all goals on natural grass should be anchored, but I have never seen a penalty given or heard of one given for those that aren't.
Goals on artificial surfaces are not anchored...except on very windy days I have seen sandbags plunked on each side to hold 'em down.

[LaxRef]

you are right...all goals on natural grass should be anchored, but I have never seen a penalty given or heard of one given for those that aren't.
Goals on artificial surfaces are not anchored...except on very windy days I have seen sandbags plunked on each side to hold 'em down.

In Minnesota, we used to penalize for flat-iron goals that weren't anchored, but I'm not working there anymore. Personally, I think the round-pipe goals are more likely to move, so I think if they're going to require any goals to be anchored it should be all of them or just the round-pipe ones.

[azlaxref1]

Our league mandates that the home team secure all goals to the ground so they cannot be accidentily dislodged during play. It is enforcable by penalty I believe. Can't say i've ever seen a goal secured to the ground, nor have i seen a team get a penalty for it, but apparently the rule exists though i seem to not be able to find it at the moment.

Arizona uses the same NFHS rules that everyone else uses...Rule 1-3 ART. 2.a (last sentence) and ART. 3. We have never had to enforce the penalty because the mere warning (threat) of a 3-min NR penalty causes anchors to magically appear...there is no definition of what an anchor is...I've seen coat hangers used.