Two pushes from behind

[laxsavage]

Ok, so ball is on the ground, A1 pushes from behind, a play-on is called, as A2 scoops the ball he gets hit, putting him in the turf, from behind (pretty mean hit, probably doesn't merit an illegal body check, but mean nonetheless) by B1 and whistle is blown because possession was gained by team A. So, team B gets possession because of the original push, but that doesn't give B1 permission to run over A2. Anywho, what would you do in said situation? Do you give B1 a warning and just tell him to cool it?

[LaxRef]

I'd have to see it--and it depends on whether it was before or after the whistle--but assuming A1 picks up the ball and the push is in progress by the time you blow the whistle, I think your options are:

1) Push by B1 ends the play-on.
2) Illegal body check by B1
3) USC by B1

This is one of those situations where you really would like some middle ground. The only other option I can think of is that if the timing warrants, you could sell it as a dead-ball push on B1 and turn the ball back over to Team A. But if it's all part of the play and there was no whistle, you may just have to let it go. The rules can't cover everything!

[laxsavage]

That's what i figured, push was while A2 was scooping so whistle hadn't been blown. I just wanted to see if there was something I may have missed, thanks LR.

[3rdPersonPlural]

I am surprised that LaxRef didn't also mention that your scenario is reason #814 not to let a play on go on too long.....:grin:

As to what I would do, the crux of the matter is weighed in your sense of fairness. Call a personal on B1 if it seemed to be 'significantly' more egregious than A1's push, or if the B1 push seemed equal to the A1 push, award the ball by alternate possession and tell the players to cool it. It's not by rule, but if you do it quick enough, it's fair and the coaches won't figure it out until the game is back on.

The best advice (when dealing with this ugly corner of the rules) is to do what you think is fair, sell your call, and whistle it back in fast.

[Lax Fan26]

... from behind (pretty mean hit, probably doesn't merit an illegal body check, but mean nonetheless)...

A push is with the gloves or forearm. A body check is body to body impact. You shouldn't call a body check a push nor a push a body check, regardless of meanness.

If you had a push with the gloves or forearms that was excessive or completely out of control, call your push (play-on for loose ball, flag for possession) and then you can call unneccessary roughness or USC if you thought it was retaliatory.

A body-to-body check must either be legal or be an Illegal Body Check. Flag it early (don't try to talk players out of it or scold them) and you will clean up the game.

[LaxRef]

A push is with the gloves or forearm.

Not quite:

Pushing is permitted from the front or side when an opponent has possession of the ball or is within 5 yards of a loose ball. In this case, pushing must be done with either closed hand, shoulder or forearm and both hands must be on the crosse.

[Lax Fan26]

LR, how do you distinguish a shoulder "push" from a body check?

[LaxRef]

LR, how do you distinguish a shoulder "push" from a body check?

A push is exerting pressure after contact is made and is not a violent blow.

Sorry, should have included that part before.

[laxfan25]

I agree that I have called pushes that are delivered with more than the hands, in most cases what raises the bar is the severity of the hit, tempered by the level of play (MS/HS/College). Typically if the guy gets "flattened" I'm going with the IBC.

[Woodenstick]

A push is with the gloves or forearm. A body check is body to body impact. You shouldn't call a body check a push nor a push a body check, regardless of meanness.

If you had a push with the gloves or forearms that was excessive or completely out of control, call your push (play-on for loose ball, flag for possession) and then you can call unneccessary roughness or USC if you thought it was retaliatory.
****


Sorry 26, I don't really agree with this. If a player drills another player in the back using his forearm or glove, I may be calling an IBC. Same if the contact is to the head or neck. If the reason I am making the call is because the contact is to an illegal spot, and not because it is unnecessarily rough, then the call should be IBC. In other words, your glove and forearm are part of your body.....

[LaxRef]

See the following:

Unnecessary roughness includes the following:
a. An excessively violent infraction of the rules against holding and pushing
(see Rules 6-4 and 6-10).