View Full Version : Participating w/o Crosse Situation
A1 nears midfield with ball in his stick. He is checked legally by B1 and both players end up on the ground. A1's stick lands ahead of both players with ball still in it.
With no one around him, A1 jumps up, picks up his stick and continues down the field.
Participating in play without a crosse? Or is A1 entitled to go and retrieve his stick...that just so happens to have the ball in it...with no one around him.
massref
04-13-2008, 08:21 AM
It would be a hard sell to Not allow it especially with no one around. Even with others around, as long as he doesn't participate in play/interfere with others playing if they are near he is allowed to get his stick otherwise there would be a rule that says a player can't pickup a dropped stick until a dead ball occurs. I must have seen this at least 6 times in the games yesterday on ESPNU with no call being made.
flagman
04-13-2008, 08:23 AM
I would allow A1 to retrieve his stick "with no one around him", which fortunately for him just so happens to have the ball in it.
flagman
04-13-2008, 08:24 AM
...otherwise there would be a rule that says a player can't pickup a dropped stick until a dead ball occurs.
What rule is this please?
massref
04-13-2008, 08:25 AM
What rule is this please?
That's my point, it is NOT a rule.
flagman
04-13-2008, 08:54 AM
otherwise there would be a rule...
Ahhh, good point, my bad.
Consider the original situation posted by EME, but this time A1's stick had landed over the midline and he is one of three attackmen on his half of the field. Is he allowed to reach over and retrieve his stick without being offside?
A1 nears midfield with ball in his stick. He is checked legally by B1 and both players end up on the ground. A1's stick lands ahead of both players with ball still in it.
With no one around him, A1 jumps up, picks up his stick and continues down the field.
Participating in play without a crosse? Or is A1 entitled to go and retrieve his stick...that just so happens to have the ball in it...with no one around him.
I can't find an AR that talks about this situation. But I believe somewhere we had this question on the test and the correct ruling is that a player may not pick up his stick with the ball in it. IP
I also believe a player may check or kick the stick to dislodge the ball.
CardinalPuff
04-13-2008, 09:48 AM
I can't find an AR that talks about this situation. But I believe somewhere we had this question on the test and the correct ruling is that a player may not pick up his stick with the ball in it. IP
I also believe a player may check or kick the stick to dislodge the ball.
beat me to it....IP...
LaxRef
04-13-2008, 10:24 PM
This is on-point:
A.R. 46. A1, in a crowded scrimmage area, drops his crosse with the ball in it. (1) A1
tries to retrieve his crosse. (2) A2 or B1 kicks the crosse on the ground to try to gain access
to the ball. (3) A2 or B1 uses his crosse to try to gain access to the ball. RULING: If the
ball is stuck in the crosse, immediate whistle and award the ball to Team B. Otherwise:
(1) Illegal procedure on A1 for participating in the play without equipment. (2) No foul.
(3) No foul.
The only fly in the ointment in the Op was that the stick with the ball in it and the player who retrieved it were both all alone...there was no "crowded scrimmage area" in sight.
LaxRef
04-14-2008, 08:13 AM
The only fly in the ointment in the Op was that the stick with the ball in it and the player who retrieved it were both all alone...there was no "crowded scrimmage area" in sight.
This was extremely poor wording on the part of the author of this A.R. :whyme:
I'm trying to get that first part deleted. In any case, I think we can infer from this that picking up a stick with the ball in it is still "participating in the play" without one's crosse since it affects the ball.
ref4ee
04-14-2008, 10:03 AM
This was extremely poor wording on the part of the author of this A.R. :whyme:
I'm trying to get that first part deleted. In any case, I think we can infer from this that picking up a stick with the ball in it is still "participating in the play" without one's crosse since it affects the ball.
I have asked this same question of several of my fellow officials and we seem to have settled on allowing the player to pick up the crosse, if he is the only one around. He is not in a "crowded scrimmage" area at this point. If there are others that could make a play on him or the ball, then you have a potential IP / play on situation.
So seems like we have different people doing it different ways.
Woodenstick
04-14-2008, 10:40 AM
Since the AR does not address our exact situation, it seems to me we should look to WHY players may not participate without a crosse. I believe that this comes from requiring all players to have 2 hands on their stick when engaging in checking, which is a safety rule. Similarly, a player with no crosse must avoid body contact or getting in the way of others (which is basically how I define "participating in play"). Again, this is a safety or fairness rule, a player with no crosse or one hand on the crosse would have an advantage checking others. In contrast, a player could pick up his lost stick with no ball in it if he avoids contact/interfering with others near the ball. So it seems to me that the spirit and purpose of the rule would permit a player to pick up the crosse with a ball in it if no one else is around.
flagman
04-14-2008, 10:52 AM
....it seems to me that the spirit and purpose of the rule would permit a player to pick up the crosse with a ball in it if no one else is around.
I believe that is the correct interpretation and besides the A.R. specifically states "in a crowded scrimmage area", which is not the case in this situation as described. I'm letting him pick up the crosse with the ball in it, according to rule.