Time Out Difference NCAA/Federation

[eme]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that in NCAA play if the equipment check request and/or the number of long crosses request by a coach is denied (i.e. everything is legal), then they lose a TO that half if they have one remianing (technical foul if they don't). BUT they don't get to take the TO: play re-started immediately.

The same is true for the above situations in Fderation play.

What IS different in this new Federation rule 7-13 is that the coach gets the remainder of his two-minute TO whether or not the officials have misapplied a rule.

Scene 1: Coach requests double horn at dead ball because he feels the refs have misapplied a rule. "Sir, that slash should have been one minute instead of a two-min. penalty!"
"Sorry, coach, that's a judgement call that can't be appealed. You are charged a TO and you may take the rest of it now...."

Scene 2: Coach request double horn at dead ball. "Sir the ball should be re-started at midfield and not outside our defensive box."
"Let me check with my partner, Coach, and we'll get right back to you."
Brief Ref conference ensues at Center x.
"Coach, you are correct. We will re-start immediately at midfield."
OR
"Coach, you are incorrect. You are charged a TO and you have the rest of the TO which is about a minute..."

[CoachRob]

That is correct. When a team is charged a time-out for long crosse count/illegal crosse checks, the team does NOT get the remainder of the time for a team meeting.

With new rule 7-13, the team DOES get the remainder of the 2:00 for a team time-out.

...If there was no error made in the application of the rule, the time-out will be charged to the requesting team; should there be time remaining for the charged time-out, the coach may utilize the amount remaining.

[LaxRef]

That is correct. When a team is charged a time-out for long crosse count/illegal crosse checks, the team does NOT get the remainder of the time for a team meeting.

Still, I'm surprised more coaches don't use the equipment check to get a "free" timeout while maybe also getting a 1:00 or 3:00 NR penalty out of it. Or, after using the "free" one, I'm surprised they don't put a timeout on the line to check someone since it takes at least a minute or so to get the guy over and check his gear, and you can use that for a quick conference with the team.

I wonder if this is one of those "coaches' fraternity" things where it's an unwritten rule that you don't request stick checks (I know in the now-defunct NHL a coach got a lot of heat for requesting a stick check in a playoff game and getting a power-play for his team out of it).

Personally, if I'm coaching, anytime a goal is scored by the other team late in a tight game I'm calling for an equipment check on the player scoring the goal, because if the stick is illegal the goal comes off the board and my team goes man-up. Of course, I'm not coaching, so this never comes up!

[monmlax]

so if i am a coach and request a stick check under ncaa rules:
stick illegal- 1st time no time out or is it still a time out charged to my team

[Laxref_36]

so if i am a coach and request a stick check under ncaa rules:
stick illegal- 1st time no time out or is it still a time out charged to my team


It doesn't matter how many stick checks a coach gets right. If the stick is iILLEGAL the team that requested the equipment is NOT charged with a timeout.

All that matters is the number of stick checks that find a LEGAL stick. The first time that happens there is no charged timeout. The second time a LEGAL stick is found a timeout is charged, and each subsequent time a LEGAL stick is found a timeout is charged. If a team has used up its allotted timeouts, then you apply the technical foul procedure for delay of game.

[LaxRef]

It doesn't matter how many stick checks a coach gets right. If the stick is iILLEGAL the team that requested the equipment is NOT charged with a timeout.

All that matters is the number of stick checks that find a LEGAL stick. The first time that happens there is no charged timeout. The second time a LEGAL stick is found a timeout is charged, and each subsequent time a LEGAL stick is found a timeout is charged. If a team has used up its allotted timeouts, then you apply the technical foul procedure for delay of game.

What they don't make clear is, if I ask for 5 stick checks in the first period, and all sticks are legal, do I lose timeouts from the second half or do I lose two timeouts from the first half and get two technical fouls? I would think the latter, but I don't believe it's completely spelled out.

[monmlax]

that rocks because we have an 11 man roster so like LaxRef said I can use it as a time out. Thanks guys

[LaxRef]

that rocks because we have an 11 man roster so like LaxRef said I can use it as a time out. Thanks guys

That's brutal! I wouldn't want to play lacrosse with essentially no subs.

Another way to deal with a short bench is to rotate a middie in at goalie between periods and have the goalie play middie for a period. That way you don't have one guy standing for the whole game and everyone else running.

[Laxref_36]

What they don't make clear is, if I ask for 5 stick checks in the first period, and all sticks are legal, do I lose timeouts from the second half or do I lose two timeouts from the first half and get two technical fouls? I would think the latter, but I don't believe it's completely spelled out.
Laxref,

As any team is only entitled to two timeouts per half, once you've used them up, everything else is a technical foul. In this case you would lose the first error without cost, then the two timeouts and there would be two technical fouls (delay of game).

Laxref_36

[Laxref_36]

That's brutal! I wouldn't want to play lacrosse with essentially no subs.

Another way to deal with a short bench is to rotate a middie in at goalie between periods and have the goalie play middie for a period. That way you don't have one guy standing for the whole game and everyone else running.


Another way of dealing with a short bench is to use your starting attack as your second midfield line and use the first midfield line as your attack. It give the middies a couple of moments to rest when they're at attack and your attack is playing in your defensive half. All in all, I'd much rather play with 18, 19 guys.

[shrekjr]

In one of my son's games last year early in the fourth quarter, the other team called for a stick check on a player that scored a goal whose stick had been checked and found legal just a few minutes earlier between periods because it was the tying goal and they were hoping to have the goal overturned and keep the lead. Knowing (hoping) the stick was still legal, my son's coach then asked for a stick check on the other team's leading scorer for the night because he knew the worst that could happen would be to cost him a time out, and the best that could happen would be for his team to be a man up with the scored tied. The other player was found to have an illegal stick, 3 minute non-releasable, and my son's team scored two goals during that three minute period and went on to win the game. Lucky call, but brilliant move in a close game with nothing really to lose.

[LaxRef]

In one of my son's games last year early in the fourth quarter, the other team called for a stick check on a player that scored a goal whose stick had been checked and found legal just a few minutes earlier between periods because it was the tying goal and they were hoping to have the goal overturned and keep the lead. Knowing (hoping) the stick was still legal, my son's coach then asked for a stick check on the other team's leading scorer for the night because he knew the worst that could happen would be to cost him a time out, and the best that could happen would be for his team to be a man up with the scored tied. The other player was found to have an illegal stick, 3 minute non-releasable, and my son's team scored two goals during that three minute period and went on to win the game. Lucky call, but brilliant move in a close game with nothing really to lose.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't call for equipment checks. Or something.

I find it vaguely amusing when a coach calls for an equipment check hoping to find an illegal stick and it turns out that the stick is legal, but the kid isn't wearing a legal mouthpiece, helmet, etc.

[LaxRef]

As any team is only entitled to two timeouts per half, once you've used them up, everything else is a technical foul. In this case you would lose the first error without cost, then the two timeouts and there would be two technical fouls (delay of game).

I'm sure that's what they intended. But this is what the rule says:

A team shall be limited to four team non-consecutive timeouts per game, with no more than two to be taken in any half, and one per each sudden-victory period. No timeout may exceed two minutes.

So, you can't take more than two in a half, but you could make the argument that you still have timeouts, they just can't be taken until the second half. If they had changed the language under equipment checks to read "remaining in the half" it would be clearer.

This was admittedly more confusing when they still had the 20-second timeout, since they had to dance around to make it clear you could take the 20 in either half.

And yes, I know I'm being picky, but given my background in logic I don't really have much choice. :grin: