Convention News/Notes???

[shrekjr]

Anyone have anything good from the convention this weekend for those of us who couldn't make it?

[dislaxxic]

There were WAY more girls there than ever before!! Sure is nice since they combined the mens and womens conventions into one!! :love:

Oh! and i LEARNED a whole lot too! The Convention details are available on CD ROM thru US Lacrosse...they taped and recorded a lot of the sessions, and the powerpoint presentations of each speaker are apparently also included...

[eme]

Ploaref, Laxref36 and yours truly were there. We attended the ncaa rules clinic in the morning. They went over the new rules and no surprises. They won't be doing the experimental flag down rule (but we knew that).
No center X on the field...replaced by a 4" square box in the center of the field for the FO. Sticks outside the box, ball in center, stick heads lined up with ball in center of stick and officials should alter their cadence on whistle.

Lots of worry about new TO rule...how is trail going to see single side official signal when ball in the attack area? Officials keep going up and down with arm to make sure the whole world knows the ball is in...should be interesting.
On clears the trail goes arm up in the air, then hits beeper for 20 second count. If riding team gets it, then loses it, then clearing team gets it again, circle arm to indicate new 20-second count.
No NCAA rulebook in sight
We all went to Federation rules meeting as well.
1. New helmet rule. No penalty to be assessed.Try to catch this and sweatpants and compression shorts, etc. before the game begins.
2. Lots of discussion on coaches To to challenge a judgment call. Language also added to include judgment call or missed call. Laxref36 and I presented our work on mechanics for doing this procedure...crowd seemed to like it. I have a copy of this if someone wants it.
3. There seems to be momentum for a National rules interpreter for hs but it isn't going to happen this year. Each state rules interpreter is going to have to make decisions for his area.
4. bait/taunting are now USL penalties. IN other words, no conduct foul for player-to-player shenanigans.(sp?)
5. Reinforced idea that teams must warm up in their half of the field..no circling field and going thru the other team, etc.
6. Reinforced that Plunger Move and head-off-the-stick on-a shot would be adjudicated as per ncaa guidelines.

I am sure I have forgotten something

[shrekjr]

Thanks for the update. That's what I was looking for.

[rilax]

2. Lots of discussion on coaches To to challenge a judgment call. Language also added to include judgment call or missed call. Laxref36 and I presented our work on mechanics for doing this procedure...crowd seemed to like it. I have a copy of this if someone wants it.


i would like to see it.

[eme]

give me an email address and I'll fire it off

[LaxRef]

No center X on the field...replaced by a 4" square box in the center of the field for the FO. Sticks outside the box, ball in center, stick heads lined up with ball in center of stick and officials should alter their cadence on whistle.

I'm curious how the 4"x4" box is supposed to show up in the center of a 4"-wide line if the home team doesn't have two colors. This will be another NFHS-NCAA rule difference, I suppose, albeit one with no penalty.

On clears the trail goes arm up in the air, then hits beeper for 20 second count. If riding team gets it, then loses it, then clearing team gets it again, circle arm to indicate new 20-second count.

And, I suppose, simultaneously doing a 4-second goalie count with the third arm? :chuckle:


We all went to Federation rules meeting as well.
1. New helmet rule. No penalty to be assessed.Try to catch this and sweatpants and compression shorts, etc. before the game begins.

Call me crazy, but I don't see the point of having unenforceable rules. They already let the HS coaches get away with illegal fields and illegal uniforms (but not, as you pointed out to me, illegal-color compression shorts!).

[Laxref_36]

I'm curious how the 4"x4" box is supposed to show up in the center of a 4"-wide line if the home team doesn't have two colors. This will be another NFHS-NCAA rule difference, I suppose, albeit one with no penalty.



And, I suppose, simultaneously doing a 4-second goalie count with the third arm? :chuckle:




Call me crazy, but I don't see the point of having unenforceable rules. They already let the HS coaches get away with illegal fields and illegal uniforms (but not, as you pointed out to me, illegal-color compression shorts!).

It was my understanding that the four by four box was only in NCAA play. The colors have to contrast. Sticks must be up to the line but not touching.
If the field does not meet specifications in NCAA play there are severe penalties (3min and additional 30 for delay).

I agree that the NFHS doesn't penalize. The NFHS rule book is inconsistent regarding field markings. The field diagram on page 5 (although no page number exists on this page), shows goal areas and defensive areas as being defined by solid lines. The field description on Page 8 Rule 1 Section 2 Article 3 b describing those same goal area states:" Contrasting colored lines running parallel to the sidelines. A broken line (1 yard solid, 1 foot open, etc.) shall be used when a contrasting color is unavailable." If the rule book can't get it right, how can I expect the high schools in my area to get it right?

[eme]

I'm curious how the 4"x4" box is supposed to show up in the center of a 4"-wide line if the home team doesn't have two colors. This will be another NFHS-NCAA rule difference, I suppose, albeit one with no penalty.



And, I suppose, simultaneously doing a 4-second goalie count with the third arm? :chuckle:




Call me crazy, but I don't see the point of having unenforceable rules. They already let the HS coaches get away with illegal fields and illegal uniforms (but not, as you pointed out to me, illegal-color compression shorts!).
Regarding that mechanic for the trail to start the 20-second count.
Goalie makes save. Trail raises arm, does a little circle with it up in the air to make it different from play-on signal (I guess it's much like the MLL signal for starting a shot clock). Drops arm, starts beeper..count is now at 2 for 4-sec. stuff...keep counting until goalie gets out of crease...no more counting...
Beeper continues..clear continues. Opps...ball on ground..picked up by riding team. Beeper shut off. Oopppss.clearing team gets it again...arm up in air with a little circle and then drops to start beeper..no more counting. Ooppss..ball goes loose and out of bounds off of riding team. Beeper shut off.
Re-start with full arm windup as per usual..raise arm up in air with a little cirlce and that's all I can think of now...

I have a question since I can't look it up in the 2005 rulebook. When, exactly, does 20-second count stop? Is it the old rule whereby both feet have to be over midline (and single side picks up 10-seco. count?)

[Laxref_36]

We used this mechanic in fall ball this year. The single side official raised his hand to let the trail know that the ball had been cleared and immediately starts a ten second count.

I think we would need to use the two feet in contact rule. If you are use the old defensive line clearing rule, that leads to stalling, which is what this rule is supposed to eliminate. The old rule had the end of the zone as a plane and once you've broken the plane you have met the criteria for clearing the ball and the twenty second count is off.

The problem with this is that a team that wants to stall the ball, they can do so by merely stepping one foot over the midline and then go back to their goalie for another twenty second count. The provision of once clearing the defensive line (ten second count) and then a violation occurs is no longer in effect.

As always I'm willing to listen to anyone elses interpretation. In short fellas I'm guessing!

[shrekjr]

The problem with this is that a team that wants to stall the ball, they can do so by merely stepping one foot over the midline and then go back to their goalie for another twenty second count. The provision of once clearing the defensive line (ten second count) and then a violation occurs is no longer in effect.
No, as I understand it, the 20 second clearing count continues until the 10 second count begins. So if the 10 second count has begun, a team can still throw the ball back to its goalie, but the 10 second count still continues. In other words, a team only gets one 20 second count per possession, and the "over/back" in the defensive zone has been eliminated.

Somebody who has been to the meetings step in and let me know if this is correct. Our meetings are this weekend.

[eme]

There are no "multiple tries" on the 20-second clear...they go up and then the ten-second ofensive count begins...once that ofensive count begins they can go anywhere they want with the ball as long as they bring it into their attack zone in 10 seconds.

Until I see the new rulebook I am going with last year's two feet over the midline rule...20 seconds continues until two feet are over...whereupon a 10-second count ensues.

[rilax]

There are no "multiple tries" on the 20-second clear...they go up and then the ten-second ofensive count begins...once that ofensive count begins they can go anywhere they want with the ball as long as they bring it into their attack zone in 10 seconds.

Until I see the new rulebook I am going with last year's two feet over the midline rule...20 seconds continues until two feet are over...whereupon a 10-second count ensues.
I would also assume that a team could bring the ball into the goal area and then pass the ball out past mid field into their defensive half there is only 10 seconds to bring it back into the goal area.

[shrekjr]

I would also assume that a team could bring the ball into the goal area and then pass the ball out past mid field into their defensive half there is only 10 seconds to bring it back into the goal area.
That is correct.

[LaxRef]

If the field does not meet specifications in NCAA play there are severe penalties (3min and additional 30 for delay).

IIRC, the NCAA rules change document indicated that they were going to do away with the 3:00 + 0:30 + faceoff for illegal field and replace it with 3:00 + possession. But I suppose we'll see when (if?) we get the 2005 rulebook.

[rilax]

2. Lots of discussion on coaches To to challenge a judgment call. Language also added to include judgment call or missed call. Laxref36 and I presented our work on mechanics for doing this procedure...crowd seemed to like it. I have a copy of this if someone wants it.




Should have asked this before but was rereading this and remind me of something. Sounds like coaches can also challenge judgment calls or missed calls or am I reading it wrong. (hope I am reading it wrong)

Thanks

[eme]

coaches cannot challenge jugment calls or missed calls.

[LaxRef]

Should have asked this before but was rereading this and remind me of something. Sounds like coaches can also challenge judgment calls or missed calls or am I reading it wrong. (hope I am reading it wrong)


I think eme misspoke when he said "judgment call." He must have meant "rule interpretation."

Of course, I suppose they can call a TO to challenge a judgment call, but theey're just going to lose their timeout since I'm not going to listen.

[Laxref_36]

The officials will always "Listen" to a request. Once the Double Horn invoking 7-13 is blown, the officials MUST come to the table on that dead ball. My response to the coach would be (if the play is not a misapplication of the rules), "Coach that's not reviewable. You have 'x' amount of time left on your time out." After you make your decision, anounce it, and get to the faceoff spot don't hang around. Let the Coach, coach their team.

Coachs can challege any call, but judgement calls and missed calls get the "nonreviewable" response immediately.