Substitution quiz

[LaxRef]

NCAA rules.

Both teams are full strength, and Team B is attacking Team A's goal. There are three attackmen (A1, A2, A3), three defensemen (B1, B2, B3) and a goalie (B4) in B's half of the field.

A1 and B1 decide to substitute and leave through the special substitution area. B5 comes immediately onto the field (legally) when B1 leaves the field. However, A4 is not ready to enter the field when A1 exits, and it takes him 20 seconds to get his gear on and enter the field. Team B maintains possession during this time.

Ruling?

[eme]

I had the exact thing happen to me in a college game lastyear...A4 was equipped, but he couldn't decide whether togo on or not and kept looking to his assistant coach for approval...I am standing right next to him as he shuttles back and forthin the box...seconds ticking by...lots of seconds.

I'll be interested inwhat the "usual suspects" say....

[Laxref_36]

I had the exact thing happen to me in a college game lastyear...A4 was equipped, but he couldn't decide whether togo on or not and kept looking to his assistant coach for approval...I am standing right next to him as he shuttles back and forthin the box...seconds ticking by...lots of seconds.

I'll be interested inwhat the "usual suspects" say....

As one of the "usual suspects", my comment centers around advantage.

If the player gains an advantage by delaying his entrance on to the field, you must make a call. Whether its to get open and create a scoring play, or throwing a check, there is a clear advantage and should not be allowed. If the player is on the field for a period of time and the defense recognizes him.
There is no advantage, no whistle play on.

suspect_36
with stripes running horizontally

any other inmates?

[rilax]

NCAA at least:
Flag down offside on team A. The delayed substitution is a silent play on even though team B has the ball. This however does not remove the responsibility of the team to adhere to the offside rule. Now hear is the kicker if A4 enters the field on team A’s offensive half of the field it now becomes an illegal substitution cause he A4 involved himself in the play. This does not get himself a second offside call though.

NFHS has the same wording just one less casebook a.r. so I would say it is the same. (In theory A.R.s are not rule changes….)

[TheKOB]

I don't understand how having less guys on the field is a penalty...or moreso, why. Could someone quote the rule book?

[rilax]

I don't understand how having less guys on the field is a penalty...or moreso, why. Could someone quote the rule book?

4-24
d. The substitute must wait until such player is off the field of play, and the substitute may not delay his entry onto the field.

A.R. 108. During a special substitution, A1 delays his entrance onto the field. The trailing official sees the delay. RULING: Play-on unless A1 is involved, technical foul. This does not remove the responsibility of a team to adhere to the offsides rule.

[LaxRef]

I don't understand how having less guys on the field is a penalty...or moreso, why. Could someone quote the rule book?

Ask and ye shall receive:

Special Substitution
SECTION 24. Substitution may take place without the necessity of waiting for suspension of play by an official. One player at a time may enter the field of play from the table area under the following conditions:

a. The player must be equipped and ready to play.
b. He may not enter the table area until his substitution is imminent.

c. The player leaving the field of play must exit via the table area.

d. The substitute must wait until such player is off the field of play, and the substitute may not delay his entry onto the field.

A.R. 108. During a special substitution, A1 delays his entrance onto the field. The trailing official sees the delay. RULING: Play-on unless A1 is involved, technical foul. This does not remove the responsibility of a team to adhere to the offsides rule.

A few points to be made here:

A team can gain an advantage via a delayed sub because the other team does not know where the tenth player is. Thus, that player can slip into the game at an opportune moment to make a check or to cut to the goal unguarded. However, TPOAD definitely comes into play here: if there's no advantage gained, there probably shouldn't be a call in this case.

The new mechanic, introduced last year, is to do a "silent play-on" if a player delays subbing, since in principle there is no advantage if the player does not become involved in the play. The official raises one arm when noticing the delay in substitution, but does not yell "Play on!" If the sub gets involved in the play, the technical foul is to be called; if not, the play on expires.

The problem with this "silent play-on" is there are so many ways a player can "be involved," and we're given no guidance on this by the rules. For example, the player coming on the field might not do anything, but he might free up someone else to get involved in the play who couldn't before because of the offsides rule. Should we call this?

In the original scenario, Rilax nailed the key point (he's starting to make a habit of this!): Team A should not be called for the delayed substitution (at least not yet; that could change depending on what A4 does when he finally enters), but they are offsides according to A.R. 108 above.

Would I call this during a game? Well, in a high school game--normally done with two-man mechanics--I doubt I'd see it. But if I did see it, what am I likely to see: I'm going to look back and see not enough men on one side of the field and I'm going to call offsides. I think this is the reason for the rule: it makes it a lot easier to make the offsides call, because you don't have to worry about why the team is offside, just whether they are.

[TheKOB]

The team would have to be pretty blind to not see the extra man coming on especially if the offense and defense are already settled. It seems like an excuse to beef up the rulebook so people think they are getting more for their money :chuckle:

The only substitution box hijinks that I've thought to use (but haven't put into practice yet) is when bringing subbing middies, have someone step over the midfield line in the middle or other end of the field and subbing to that side. The reasoning is that if the players for the other team are following my players up to the sub box when they come off to cover them, then that would leave them open. Is that illegal?

[LaxRef]

The team would have to be pretty blind to not see the extra man coming on especially if the offense and defense are already settled. It seems like an excuse to beef up the rulebook so people think they are getting more for their money

Yes, in a settled situation it's less likely to make a difference, but it can. And it can make a huge difference when the guy clearing the ball thinks he has everyone beat and some guy steps onto the field from the box and clobbers him.

The only substitution box hijinks that I've thought to use (but haven't put into practice yet) is when bringing subbing middies, have someone step over the midfield line in the middle or other end of the field and subbing to that side. The reasoning is that if the players for the other team are following my players up to the sub box when they come off to cover them, then that would leave them open. Is that illegal?

I can't picture exactly what you're describing, but it sort of reminds me of a "trick clear," where the riding team thinks the attackman can't step over the line on one side of the field but a middie on the other side steps over to free up the attackman to go over. This is legal, but you run the risk of tricking not only the other team but also the officials! If you're going to run something like this, it's wise to alert the officials before the game (and even then they might not get it right!).

[TheKOB]

I think the trick clear is what I'm drawing on. I haven't quite worked it out, which is one of the reasons I haven't tried it. The ref blowing the whistle and calling me offsides would alert the other team to my devious plot though....