Stalling/Shot Question

[eme]

Team A has been warned to "Keep it in." A1 shoots and the ball (1) rolls on the ground just inside the attack area or (2) comes to a complete stop on the ground in the attack area. A2 attempts to scoop up the ball in both (1) and (2) above and knocks the ball outside the attack area. What are your calls?

[LaxRef]

Team A has been warned to "Keep it in." A1 shoots and the ball (1) rolls on the ground just inside the attack area or (2) comes to a complete stop on the ground in the attack area. A2 attempts to scoop up the ball in both (1) and (2) above and knocks the ball outside the attack area. What are your calls?

In both cases, I'd call "Play on!" and give B a few seconds to recover the ball, then blow the whistle and award the ball to B if B was unable to pick it up. The rules are unlcear what ends the stalling situation--well, unlcear is generous, since it isn't mentioned at all--but in my mind the stalling warning is in effect until there is a change of possession. In other words, a shot doesn't cancel the stall warning AFAIC.

In fact, the entire stalling rule is a mess. As I've pointed out before, it literally says that stalling shall be called if the ball goes out of the attack area in any manner. Not "when there's a stalling warning and the ball goes out in any manner," but whenever the ball goes out.

Here's what the rule says:

It shall be the initial responsibility of the team in possession to move the ball into its offensive half of the field. A team in possession of the ball in the attack area cannot be penalized for stalling. When there is possession in the offensive half of the field, stalling shall be called under the following conditions:

(1) A team in possession of the ball in its attack area may be warned to “keep it in.” This warning shall be made when it is obvious that a team is keeping the ball from play. After being warned, the team runs or passes the ball out of its attack area.

(2) The ball goes out of the attack area in any manner, except as a result of a shot on goal or a deflection by the defensive team. In that situation, the ball must be recovered by or awarded to the defensive team if the offensive team touches the ball before the defensive team gains possession.

(3) During the last two minutes of regulation play, when offensive stalling rules are in effect for the team that is ahead.

Presumably, they mean for (2) to only be in effect if the team has been warned, but that's not the way it's structured, and the content of (3) makes it clear that (2) is not just the next step after (1).

[shrekjr]

Yeah, what LaxRef said.

[eme]

(2) The ball goes out of the attack area in any manner, except as a result of a shot on goal or a deflection by the defensive team. In that situation, the ball must be recovered by or awarded to the defensive team if the offensive team touches the ball before the defensive team gains possession

The mangled stalling rule(s) are pretty clear that a shot can leave the attack area...no stall called on attacking team.

My initial situation had two scenes.
In scene one the ball came to rest on the ground in the attack area. At that moment, lying still, it is no longer a shot (as per definition). I'd say if A then nudges it out..."Play On!" in the hope that B recovers..if not..award to B.

Now scene 2 is trickier. The ball is bouncing/rolling/moving toward the edge of the box area. Think back to what you would do if the shot was doing that toward the endline (in a no-stall-warn-on play) and A touches it/tries to pick up, etc....you would award to A because it is still a shot. (See Rule 4-6 AR 37 in the 2004 book) Now, do you apply that same definition here, inside the box, as the ball moves/bounces/rolls toward the attack area line?

[Laxref_36]

(2) The ball goes out of the attack area in any manner, except as a result of a shot on goal or a deflection by the defensive team. In that situation, the ball must be recovered by or awarded to the defensive team if the offensive team touches the ball before the defensive team gains possession

The mangled stalling rule(s) are pretty clear that a shot can leave the attack area...no stall called on attacking team.

My initial situation had two scenes.
In scene one the ball came to rest on the ground in the attack area. At that moment, lying still, it is no longer a shot (as per definition). I'd say if A then nudges it out..."Play On!" in the hope that B recovers..if not..award to B.

Now scene 2 is trickier. The ball is bouncing/rolling/moving toward the edge of the box area. Think back to what you would do if the shot was doing that toward the endline (in a no-stall-warn-on play) and A touches it/tries to pick up, etc....you would award to A because it is still a shot. (See Rule 4-6 AR 37 in the 2004 book) Now, do you apply that same definition here, inside the box, as the ball moves/bounces/rolls toward the attack area line?

eme,

The official must make a determination whether or not the ball would have left the attack area on it's own volition. If the offensive player helps the ball leave the area when it wouldn't normally have, turnover, play on. If the ball based on the shot would have left the box on its own, I would allow play to continue.

Laxref_36

[eme]

The official must make a determination whether or not the ball would have left the attack area on it's own volition. If the offensive player helps the ball leave the area when it wouldn't normally have, turnover, play on. If the ball based on the shot would have left the box on its own, I would allow play to continue


Laxref--36..the above is a GREAT Answer, one I can use on shots all over the field going out of bounds...I am going to write it down in my rulebook...

[LaxRef]

The mangled stalling rule(s) are pretty clear that a shot can leave the attack area...no stall called on attacking team.

You're right; I should have included that part. But the rule is still horrible: the attacking just can't carry or pass the ball out of the attack area at any point during the entire game without being called for stalling :chuckle:

My initial situation had two scenes.
In scene one the ball came to rest on the ground in the attack area. At that moment, lying still, it is no longer a shot (as per definition). I'd say if A then nudges it out..."Play On!" in the hope that B recovers..if not..award to B.

Now scene 2 is trickier. The ball is bouncing/rolling/moving toward the edge of the box area. Think back to what you would do if the shot was doing that toward the endline (in a no-stall-warn-on play) and A touches it/tries to pick up, etc....you would award to A because it is still a shot. (See Rule 4-6 AR 37 in the 2004 book) Now, do you apply that same definition here, inside the box, as the ball moves/bounces/rolls toward the attack area line?

You're right; I missed what you were getting at. I think the idea of "addditional impetus" is key; if the ball was going out anyway and A2 doesn't "help" it, then I agree team A can recover. OTOH, if the ball is rolling slowly and what A2 does speeds it up at all, I think you have to call the stall (or play-on).