Homemade Carbon Fiber Shaft (multi-parts)

[KnightsLAXDad]

A few people have asked since I posted about making my own carbon fiber
shaft in the Black Dragon thread so I'll post what I did.

First big warning - anything I did, and likely anything you do yourself will NOT
turn out like a Harrow or Black Dragon shaft. They are some sweet pieces
done by people with real experience, skill, and likely expensive, pro setups.
This is a do-it-yourself, just-for-fun kind of project, and the results look like
it. DO NOT EXPECT to produce a commercial quality piece!!!!

A couple of things first to cover my own butt
- this post does not constitute expert advice, it simply chronicles what I
have done as a hobby project
- I make no claims as to the suitability of the end product for its intended
use
- anyone trying to do this on their own, does so at their own risk

Now that that's out of the way, I thought I would give this a shot for laughs.
I have done some autobody fiberglass work before, and have seen lots of
guys make CF car parts. I spend a a few evenings with Google to find that
there is a ton of information out there on making things out of CF. A lot of
hobbyists use it for model airplanes and rockets as well a sailboat parts, right
up to full sized CF masts. How hard could this be?

First things first. Carbon fiber is just that, threads of carbon woven into a
cloth. It is just like fiberglass cloth you see in boating or automotive stores,
but lighter and stronger. It has a lot of tensile or pulling strength but it
bends, well, like cloth. On its own, it's not really useful. It has to be
combined with something else to make it rigid. That second piece is epoxy
glue. Epoxy is a really strong two-part glue, but it is very brittle. Putting the
two together makes a very strong "composite" material. Its the same as
reinforced concrete.The CF cloth reinforces the epoxy glue by adding tensile
strength so the epoxy can't elongate and crack under strain, as well as
distributing the load around the epoxy matrix lowering the load at any one
point.

on to part 2 - materials....

[Fartman]

thanks for the info

[KnightsLAXDad]

Where the hell do you start? Most hobby parts are made by applying layers
of CF (meaning CF cloth and epoxy) over a foam center that has been cut
the shape of the piece you want by hand and left to harden This is called a
hand layup.

Commercial pieces can be done differently. The CF is placed over reusable
molds. The CF is then formed to the mold by a vacuum system. This has two
purposes. One, it accurately forms the CF over the mold. Second it squeezes
excess epoxy out of the cloth, and air bubbles (weak points) out of the epoxy.
In some case the pieces are put in a oven to bake until they are hard. It isn't
necessary, but it speeds the hardening process, and I think that it actually
comes out stronger. Once the piece is hard, it gets peeled off the mold and
ready to finish.

Vacuum bagging isn't difficult technically, but requires a setup costing $2-300
minimum. More on this later.

The plan was to get some CF cloth (easily found online), epoxy (found at any
marine supply shop or online), and a foam core (Home Depot rigid pink insulation)
The first problem was that CF comes in a flat cloth, which meant wrapping it
around the foam core. This would leave an ugly seam, and it would be difficult
to get a straight edge. I nearly gave up until I found that it comes in a sleeve
(like a tube sock) with no seam. You can simply slip it over any rod-shaped
core. I found it online at www.sollercomposites.com for about $3 a foot. They
also had a CF/Kevlar sleeve for the same price, so I got some of it as well because
it was a cool black and yellow color.

on to part 3 getting going.....

[KnightsLAXDad]

I'll skip over the first shaft I made. It tunred out pretty bad. I had the right
concept, but poor execution. The shaft was crooked and misaligned. I go right
into prototype number two.

The first thing after collecting the materials, was to make the foam core. I
started with the dimensons of a women's shaft, because it's the right shape
to start with, and I figured it would be the right size around after a few layers
of CF. The guys at Soller composites suggested a minimum of three layers.
I cut the foam to the same angles and dimensions as a women's shaft using a
bandsaw. This took a number of attempts to get right, and the bandsaw made
clean cuts and it was a lot easier to control the angles. It's nearly impossible
to do a good job by hand so don't try. I also wanted a little reinforcement at the head attachment so I cut a 2-3" piece of a women's shaft and slipped it
over the end of the foam (see pics)

[KnightsLAXDad]

The core is the critical part. It defines the final size and shape of the shaft. It
takes many tries until to get the right dimensions. I found that the women's
shaft + 3 layers of compacted (I'll get to this later) CF fits pretty good into
the socket of the head. The aluminum piece also ensured that I got the
shape and dimensions right.

The other thing I learned from prototype one is that you need to keep the
foam straight while it hardens or else you shaft will be crooked. While the piece
was hardening, I clamped it between two straight peices of wood wrapped in
cellophane. The epoxy wont stick to the cellophane.

To put the CF on, I slipped the sleeve over the foam blank. It's like those
woven "chinese fingercuffs". When push one it, it gets larger around, and
when you pull on it, it tightens up. I left a little extra over each end. The
cloth frays a little when you cut it. I pulled the sleeve tight and straightend
and smoothe the weave (hey it's gotta look good).

next....

[KnightsLAXDad]

Warning this is the part that can be quite messy. You need to be prepared
for this with a proper work area (not the dining room) and proper safety
attire like rubber gloves, safety glasses etc)

Epoxy is just a two part glue. A resin, and a hardener. Alone they are just
sticky liquid but combine them in the right proportion and they harden (cure)
chemically into a very hard, tough solid. There are several epoxies out there, most commonly found at boating stores. You can buy the two-part system in
bulk cans of various sizes which have to be measured out and mixed. The
most common one is the "West System". They also have convenient premeasured
packets (like ketchup). I bought these not knowing how much I really needed.
It was about $20 Cdn for 6, 2-part packets. It took just a little more than
one packet per layer, although you could probably stretch one, but why be
cheap? You squeeze the packet contents into a container (resin+hardener)
and mix thoroughly. You have about 10-15 minutes of working time before
it starts to harden. Plenty of time. You can squeegee or "paint" the epoxy
on the CF. You need to throughly wet the cloth, but it doesn't have to be
"dripping" wet. All the necessary safety apparel must be worn. Rubber gloves,
apron, eye protection etc. It doesn't really smell but good ventilation is highly
recommended. It also needs to be fairly warm >65. The curing time is affected
by the temperature.

Ideally the CF/resin need to be compacted to get rid of excess resin and air
bubbles. In more elaborate setups, this is done by vacuum bagging. On the
net I read a couple of articles from guys who built there own CF bike frames.
Google Damon Rinard to find it. To compact the CF and squeeze out the excess
resin, they poked many tiny holes in a roll of electrical tape with a pin and
then wrapped the tubes with the hole-y tape (sticky side out!). Wrapping it
sort of medium squeezed resin out throught the holes of the electrical tape, which gives the same effect as vacuum bagging. Just make sure that you put
enough holes in the tape, and that they go deep enough that you have enough
tape to wrap the hole length of the shaft. Once the shaft is wrapped it got
clamped between the peices of wood to keep it dead straight until it cures.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Once the layer has cured, about 10-12 hours depending on temperature, I
removed the tape. The epoxy doesn't stick to the plastic tape so it comes
right off (remember sticky side away from the CF).

I put down 3 layers of CF cloth all in the same way as above. From the first
try, I found that three layers over the women's shaft fit perfectly in the head,
but I had an extra piece of CF/kevlar that I wanted to put on. I simply put it
on like above, leaving just a short of the reinforced end. It actually feathered
well into the reinforced part.

After the final layer of CF/Kevlar cured the tape wrapping leaves little ridges
so I put another layer of just epoxy on top to smooth it out. I applied it with
a foam roller to get a tidy finish. It doesn't add much weight. To get a really
nice finish, you could add a second finish coat.

Once it all cured (I left in in a warm spot for another 24 hours) I trimmed the
excess off the end and installed it into the head like any other shaft. It is
wicked light and as stiff or stiffer than the aluminum shafts I have (tested
by putting my weight on it against a door frame - I couldn't detect any
bending). It looks pretty cool too. It throws pretty well in my fairly limited
experience. I really don't know how tough it is though, or how much abuse
it would stand up to. For me it's just a novelty that I can paly wall ball with.
I doubt I'd risk it in any kind of game.

What didn't go right was I didn't get the foam core quite right. It's too
narrow. Bare handed its ok, but feels a little on the small side, but I can't get
a decent grip on it with gloves. It cost about $50-60 woth of material and
about 10-12 hours of work, not including waiting for it harden. It was a fun
project.

[OutBurst]

Nice, but, could you please get larger pics?

[kryptic]

so the girl's shaft is still in the CF?

[Viperlaxer132]

I might try this out sometime, but first if you have any extra pieces of the shaft (extra that you cut off) you should go beat the **** out of it and see how tough it is

so the girl's shaft is still in the CF?

I didnt think there was ever a girls shaft in it, just a piece of foam shaped like one. If thats still in there i dont think it really matters considering its just foam.

[BNeal]

Hey I am vewry interested in trying this. I don't have too much experience with this type of thing but after reading your posts it seems if i follow all the directions i should be ok. I just have a few questions: 1.) is the foam stil inside the carbon fiber or were you able to get it out. And if you could get it out, couldn't you use an actual girls lax stick as a mold? I was also wondering if you could try to further explain the electrical tape compacting because i didnt fully understand it.

[Fartman]

how light is wicked light??? are we talking db803 light, because that would be amazing.

[kryptic]

I didnt think there was ever a girls shaft in it, just a piece of foam shaped like one. If thats still in there i dont think it really matters considering its just foam.

Sorry, I think I misread that.. :crazy:

[KnightsLAXDad]

Nice, but, could you please get larger pics?

I'll see what I can do. I don't have a lot of time over the next few days to
get something like imagestation going though.

How big a file can I upload as a thumbnail?

[KnightsLAXDad]

Sorry, I think I misread that.. :crazy:


Actually Kryptic you are right, I left it in, and put the CF over it. I wanted a
little extra strength right at the the head. I also figured that the aluminum would
also hold the screw better than the CF. It's only a short 2" section so it adds
only a couple grams of weight.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Hey I am vewry interested in trying this. I don't have too much experience with this type of thing but after reading your posts it seems if i follow all the directions i should be ok. I just have a few questions: 1.) is the foam stil inside the carbon fiber or were you able to get it out. And if you could get it out, couldn't you use an actual girls lax stick as a mold? I was also wondering if you could try to further explain the electrical tape compacting because i didnt fully understand it.

I had no real experience before I tried it. I Googled everything. I am mechanically
inclined, and know my way around tools, building things etc. It may take a
couple or three tries at it to get something decent.

I left the foam in. It weighs nothing. You could hollow it out to cut a few more
grams, but it probably provides a little more internal support. I took a 2" section
that I cut off the end and stood on it (155lbs) and bounced up and down
lightly. The foam cracked inside, but the CF didn't give.

I think you could probably use a women's shaft as a mold. The basic idea is you
cover with a release agent that the epoxy won't stick to. It's called polyvinyl
alcohol and it's available thorugh most CF/fiberglass supply shops. Once you
get a layer or two of CF on and hardened, you should be able to pull the shaft
out of the middle. I didn't try this because I didn't want to spend any more $
at that point and running around trying to get the stuff, and testing it out to
see how it works. I think the trick would be that the shaft would have to be
perfectly smooth in order for the CF to slide off. You would want to polish it
as best as possible to get a good release. This is how they make CF masts for
sailboats. I remember a couple of sites on how people did it.

The tape thing. To make a strong CF piece you need to have a certain ratio
of epoxy to CF cloth (I can't remember the number) and you need to remove
any tiny air bubbles. The air bubbles, called voids, are weak spots where the
piece can start to crack. The best way to do this is to compress the wet CF
to squeeze out the excess expoxy, like squeezing water out of a mop. They
use a technique called vacuum bagging. It's kind of like vacuum packed food.
You put the piece in a big plastic bag, and suck all the air out of it and leave
it that way until it hardens. This compresses the th CF against the mold and
squeezes out the resin/air bubbles. You actually cover the piece with a
special type of cloth that the epoxy can't stick to (called release cloth) and a
layer of absorbent material like cotton. When the vacuum is applied, the
pressure squeezes the epoxy through the porous release cloth and into the
absorbent layer. Once it's hardened, you peel off the absorbent layer and release
cloth. The tape is a substitute for this process. I poked dozens of tiny holes
in a roll of electrical tape to make "pores" with a pin. Then I wrapped the
shaft with the tape fairly tightly. The wrapping compresses the wet CF and
squeezes epoxy through the tiny pin holes. So the tape helps form the CF to
the mold tightly, and gets rid of some of the extra epoxy. I found this from the
guy who built his own CF bike! When you wrap it, you put the non-sticky side
on the CF, overlapping the wrap slight keep it on the shaft. The epoxy won't
stick to the shiny plastic of the tape.

Cheers...KLD

[KnightsLAXDad]

how light is wicked light??? are we talking db803 light, because that would be amazing.


I can't say for sure. I don't have a scale that I can weigh it on. I don't
have a db803 to make a side by side comparison. All I know is that it is
way lighter than any of the aluminum shafts I have, including a junior debeer
aluminum shaft from my son's stick.

[Fartman]

aluminum is pretty heavy tho. now just kick the crap out of it and see how durable it its.

[isuckatlax]

Is there a way you would be able to leave dimples of epoxy from the tape sticking up, so it would have a grippy surface? Looks good I want to try it!

[KnightsLAXDad]

Is there a way you would be able to leave dimples of epoxy from the tape sticking up, so it would have a grippy surface? Looks good I want to try it!

The overlapping tape leaves a bit of a ridge, kind of in a big spiral down the
shaft and a bit of a rough surface. I put an extra coat of epoxy on to smooth it
out. If you want it smoother,you can actually sand it lightly before applying
another coat.

A suggestion to make it grippy-er would be to wrap the final layer with the
release cloth and then wrap it with the tape. It leaves a fine checker board
pattern in the epoxy that should give plenty of grip

[KnightsLAXDad]

I have created an album to bigger pics:

http://community.webshots.com/album/269229582mdCPue

KLD

[exile lacrosse]

the big pictures are really nice. the shaft looks really really good. nice job.

[kryptic]

It looks really rounded, does it still retain the octagonal shape?

[PilotShinjiIkar]

How strong is carbon fiber in general in relation to other alloys used in the industry? And how much do commercial carbon fiber shafts costs? I know they made a few attempts at it in the past but I heard of any ones currerntly, maybe Harrow has some.

[Fartman]

hey knightslaxdad... you thinkin of sellin some???

[KnightsLAXDad]

It looks really rounded, does it still retain the octagonal shape?

With each layer it starts to get more and more rounded. It still has a vague
octagonal shape, but nothing like a Harrow or Dragon. I think using a metal
core instead of foam would be better, and either vacuum bagging or wrapping
the tape tighter would help get a better shape.

[KnightsLAXDad]

How strong is carbon fiber in general in relation to other alloys used in the industry? And how much do commercial carbon fiber shafts costs? I know they made a few attempts at it in the past but I heard of any ones currerntly, maybe Harrow has some.

Harrows go for about $100. They seem plenty strong.

[KnightsLAXDad]

hey knightslaxdad... you thinkin of sellin some???


Naaa. I just don't have the time to keep trying to get a decent product. It was
fun to try, but I don't have any aspirations of making into a business.

[OronoLax20]

Howcome in the pics it just looks rounded? No octagonal shape?

[HRodLAX]

Sweet shaft, i thick if i get enough time i will try it

The black and green check pattern is the kevlar sleeve i'm guessing. if it is, does it come in any other designs?

[KnightsLAXDad]

Howcome in the pics it just looks rounded? No octagonal shape?

See the response to kryptic a few posts back. Each layer rounds it off a little
more without some special steps to the process.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Sweet shaft, i thick if i get enough time i will try it

The black and green check pattern is the kevlar sleeve i'm guessing. if it is, does it come in any other designs?

The yellow (not green as it turned out in the pictures) is the Kevlar. From the
place I got it (Soller Composites), they only have the yellow-black kevlar/CF
hybrid sleeves or all-yellow kevlar.

[BNeal]

Using the basic outline of Knightslaxdad's project, I started a carbon fiber stick today. Instead of a foam core I used a girls stick and covered it in baby oil and plastic before putting on the Carbon Fiber. So far i have one layer on and epoxied and its looking good. Also, not trying to hijack the thread. But me and a friend are thinking of trying to sell these for maybe 50-70 dollars and are wondering if there is any demand for them.

[goalieskcickay]

If you'd make them goalie-sized you've got your first customer.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Using the basic outline of Knightslaxdad's project, I started a carbon fiber stick today. Instead of a foam core I used a girls stick and covered it in baby oil and plastic before putting on the Carbon Fiber. So far i have one layer on and epoxied and its looking good. Also, not trying to hijack the thread. But me and a friend are thinking of trying to sell these for maybe 50-70 dollars and are wondering if there is any demand for them.


Cool - take lots of pictures as you go.

[schratxs20]

man this is great...sure im interested if it comes out nice

[BNeal]

Ok the stick is at the friends house with the second layer curing and he is taking pictures at the moment.

[Alex]

KnightsLAXDad, congrats on by far the coolest do-it-yourself lax project I've ever seen, topping homemade goals and dye jobs by a longshot. I'd be interested to see how other people come up with ideas on how to squeeze the air bubbles out of the epoxy (instead of the tape method), and someone really cracking some stuff with a 2nd or 3rd gen version of one of these. I've always had an affinity for the all Kevlar look, I don't think I have the time/$ to devote to making one yet but if a few other people worked on it and it showed some promise, I'd like to see the results.

[winny]

woulld ther be any way to make this less rounded

[KnightsLAXDad]

Use something a little more solid than foam on the inside and apply more pressure
to the CF when it is wet so it conforms more. I went back on the site where I got
the CF tubing from and they now sell big heat shrink tubing. You put it on over the
wet CF and heat it up from the middle. As it shrinks, it squeezes the excess epoxy
out. Very cool.

The best way to do this would be a ladies/junior shaft inside (treated with release
agent) put the four or five layers of CF and epoxy on, and squeeze the life out of
it with the heat shrink tube. I would bet that it would come out a lot better than
mine.

[PilotShinjiIkar]

Has anyone made a D Pole yet? Because I want to do one, but theres no girls shaft in that length and I have questions on strength. Wonder if you can increase strength just by adding more layers.

[chmcclellan]

Has anyone made a D Pole yet? Because I want to do one, but theres no girls shaft in that length and I have questions on strength. Wonder if you can increase strength just by adding more layers.

Definitely, I played around with making CF tubing for a science project but haven't tried the shaft. Anyway, you could definitely make it stronger with extra layers.

Composites like CF and CF/Kevlar are being used in such a wide rang of applications for just that reason: by varying the number of layers and the orientation of the weave you have a huge amount of control over its properties. In theory you could make a shaft which was really flexible in one direction and very stiff in the other. I know directional composites like this are used a lot in cycling.

[slinkyspine]

thats kool well done

[KnightsLAXDad]

Has anyone made a D Pole yet? Because I want to do one, but theres no girls shaft in that length and I have questions on strength. Wonder if you can increase strength just by adding more layers.


That's what harrow does for their box shaft. It says they add an additional 20g
of composite,which is probably about the weight of an extra layer of CF.

You have to be careful at the end you insert into the head. It can only be
so big, but that's only the first 2" or so. The rest can have as many layers as
you want until it feels to big in your hand. Also, the more layers you add, the
harder it will be to maintain sharp corners.

[atacklax]

would it be possible to make like a kpro kevlar using this method?

[NY Lax 4]

what exactly should we order at http://www.sollercomposites.com/ ?

[scliff42002]

You have to be careful at the end you insert into the head. It can only be
so big, but that's only the first 2" or so. The rest can have as many layers as
you want until it feels to big in your hand. Also, the more layers you add, the
harder it will be to maintain sharp corners.

Although the extra layers of CF do make the shaft easier to grip be careful not to go too big (greater than 3.5 inches around)

NCAA Rule 1-17: The circumference of the crosse handle shall be no more than 31/2 inches.

what exactly should we order at http://www.sollercomposites.com/ ?


You need to go under the composite sleeves link on the left hand side.

[NY Lax 4]

i realize u need to go to composite sleeves but what do we need to order in there?

[atacklax]

would it be possible to make like a kpro kevlar using this method?
i think i found an answer to my own question. get a ladies kpro off masscloseouts or ebay and throw some kevlar on it. in fact, i think i might try that.

[raykessler]

just an idea, if u want to make it like more shaped like a regular shaft get the shaft u wanna use spray the inside with release agent then you can buy liquid foam, poar the liquid foam on the inside let it dry and use that for your mold

[laxattack22]

i still am curious how light or heavy it is..and i know its hard to tell but does ne one else think it looks kinda heavy

[atacklax]

probably depends on what u mold it around.

[Warrior]

I think itd be cool to use a chicks wooden shaft as the center and just let the CF mold around that...that way its like tripple strong maybe a little heavier but still strong

[GBaschski]

I'm definitely trying to do this. It would be awesome to say that I made my own shaft.
Anyway, a few questions.
1. When you put the first CF sleeve over the foam, do you put epoxy on the outside of the foam so that the CF will harden on it?
2. When you put epoxy over the carbon fiber, do you wrap the tape with holes around the CF immediately, or wait until it hardens, etc?
3. What type and diameter sleeves did you buy?

[slinkyspine]

cf is heavy looking but light as hell

[NY Lax 4]

If i got a womens shaft(im going to use a womens kpro most likely) then epoxyed a carbon fiber sleeve on the inside of it then epoxyed a carbon/kevlar sleeve on the outside would that work?

[NY Lax 4]

also...the women's kpro i will be using has a little less then .75 diameter...if the carbon fiber sleeve on the inside is .5 and the carbon/kevlar sleeve on the outside is 1" would that work? if not what do you reccommend?

[atacklax]

knightslaxdad, could you please give us a full list of what we should order off of sollercomposites.com and home depot?

[GBaschski]

If i got a womens shaft(im going to use a womens kpro most likely) then epoxyed a carbon fiber sleeve on the inside of it then epoxyed a carbon/kevlar sleeve on the outside would that work?

That's actually a good idea...seems like it would be all around a bit stronger. If you end up doing that successfully, let know.

But how do you plan on getting the carbon fiber sleeve on the inside to fit smoothly against the inside of the kpro without hanging loose?

[NY Lax 4]

That's actually a good idea...seems like it would be all around a bit stronger. If you end up doing that successfully, let know.

But how do you plan on getting the carbon fiber sleeve on the inside to fit smoothly against the inside of the kpro without hanging loose?
i would find away to get the epoxy in there...then i would pull on the sleeve making it very thin slide it through and then fit it to the inside

[atacklax]

i would find away to get the epoxy in there...then i would pull on the sleeve making it very thin slide it through and then fit it to the inside
what about air bubbles?

[laxd42]

thats cool about how long did it take u to make it

[NY Lax 4]

what about air bubbles?
the vacuuming proccess would eliminate most of that problem and it would have the krypto pro as the core so it's not even like that part would be so weak

[Ram-X-Man]

I would really like to try this with my dad. I am confused about how manty feet of the CF/Kevlar sleeve i would have to order and what diameter the CF/ KEvlar sleeve sould have to be. If someone could help me out with this I could convince my dad to do it.

Thanks
R.X.M

[KnightsLAXDad]

I'm definitely trying to do this. It would be awesome to say that I made my own shaft.
Anyway, a few questions.
1. When you put the first CF sleeve over the foam, do you put epoxy on the outside of the foam so that the CF will harden on it?
2. When you put epoxy over the carbon fiber, do you wrap the tape with holes around the CF immediately, or wait until it hardens, etc?
3. What type and diameter sleeves did you buy?


1. Yes, exactly.
2. Yes, make sure you put the tape's sticky side up. The epoxy will not stick
to the non-glued side of the tape.
3. IIRC, it was the 1.5" sleeve, and I got the CF and the CF/Kevlar mix. I did
2-3 CF sleeves then 1 CF/Kevlar sleeve.

[KnightsLAXDad]

If i got a womens shaft(im going to use a womens kpro most likely) then epoxyed a carbon fiber sleeve on the inside of it then epoxyed a carbon/kevlar sleeve on the outside would that work?

I think that that would be the best way to do it and get a decent result. This
way you don't have to worry about cutting the foam core, and trying to keep
it straight while it hardens.

[KnightsLAXDad]

That's actually a good idea...seems like it would be all around a bit stronger. If you end up doing that successfully, let know.

But how do you plan on getting the carbon fiber sleeve on the inside to fit smoothly against the inside of the kpro without hanging loose?

The way it is woven, the diameter gets smaller as you pull on it lengthwise just
like the "chinese fingercuffs" where you stick your finger in, but you can't pull
them out. You just pull the CF sleeve tight around the shaft.

[KnightsLAXDad]

the vacuuming proccess would eliminate most of that problem and it would have the krypto pro as the core so it's not even like that part would be so weak

Yep, and wrapping the electrical tape also helps sqeeze out excess epoxy and
air bubbles at the same time.

[KnightsLAXDad]

I would really like to try this with my dad. I am confused about how manty feet of the CF/Kevlar sleeve i would have to order and what diameter the CF/ KEvlar sleeve sould have to be. If someone could help me out with this I could convince my dad to do it.

Thanks
R.X.M


Parts list:

1. 12 feet of 1.5" CF or CF/Kevlar sleeve (Soller Composites - your choice of
material)
2. 8 packets of West System Epoxy (sold at marine supply shops)
3. core material (women's shaft, pink/blue rigid foam from home depot)
4. 4-5 cheap 1" paint brushes (to apply epoxy - home depot)
5. 1 x 2-4" flexible scraper (to squeegee epoxy on and excess off home depot)
6. couple of roles of electrical tape (perforate with a pin home depot ) OR
3 ft of heat shrink tubing from Soller Composite (prefered way now)

Something to cover the floor with
Rubber/latex/nitrile gloves
Apron etc
Some place to put a sticky shaft down on, and covered with plastic wrap
so it won't stick.

[terpsfan00022]

do u use a alumminum shaft

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Where can I buy one.

[laxman37]

so, all in all, how long did it take to make this? Would you reccomend making one versus just buying a new shaft of the same $$ range?

[dillz18]

Nice job, can you go into a little more detail though?

[KnightsLAXDad]

Wow - an old thread resurrected.

laxman37 - it took me 4-7 hours total over two evenings. Like I said in the very first post way back when, it's a project, and it doesn't compare to a commercially made shaft, especially if $ are your main consideration

dillz18 - ask away. I wasn't going to post any more details.

[BeaverFondu]

I was looking at the Carbon Uni sleeves on the Soller Composites page. I figured out that you needed to get the undirectional CF sleeves but then do you buy the 48 Fiber Ends or the 80 Fiber ends?

Also, you haven't happened to do any strenth testing have you?

[KnightsLAXDad]

Hmm, good question. They only carried the braided when I did mine. Send them an email. They are pretty good about answering technical Q's.

Other than some fooling around, I didn't do any "real" strength testing.

[Brady]

KLD, is the shaft still holding up? I have a feeling you're not really stressing it in game play so maybe this is a moot point, but I was just curious. I was thinking about working on one of these this summer to see how it comes out.

[KnightsLAXDad]

I made 2. The first one was basically a throw away. It was crooked, bad shape etc. The second one was better, but still not to the point I used it for anythin more than playing around. It was straight, and close to the right shape, but it was too narrow in width. It was ok to hold onto without gloves, but never felt right with gloves on.

If I was to do it again, I would follow the shaft tutorial on sollercomposites.com and use a Ti ladies shaft in the middle for a mold, using 3-5 layers of material. If it's a little too small, you can always add another layer after. Depending on the weight you could either leave the Ti shaft in, or remove after (assuming you used some kind of release agent to enable you to get the shaft out afterwards.

[BeaverFondu]

I'm really thinking about doing this, actually today I'm probally going to end up getting the stuff I need from Home Depot. Also, would a piece of PVC piping work as a mold? It would also be possible to take the mold out afterward right?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but this is just really cool.

P.S. Could you beat up the old one for us?

[KnightsLAXDad]

I don't have the old one anymore. I gave it to the local lax store owner for him to "test", as he was interested in making some himself. The shop is no more and the shaft is who knows where. Probably in the back of his van somewhere.

For the mold, remember that whatever shape it is, that will be the shape of the final product. You need at least 2" of the exact size/shape of a lax shaft to fit the head on. The rest of the shaft is a personal preference. That's why I suggest using a ladies shaft - already the right shape and dimensions, it works out to the same size as a men's shaft with 3-5 layers of material (depending on how much you compact it - the more the better to get rid of air bubbles).

In order to get the mold out after the CF has hardened, you have to make sure that the resin can't stick to it. You can either wrap the mold in a plastic film (I think even food wrap will do) or make sure that the mold is polished smooth and use some kind of "release agent" or "mold release" that prevents the epoxy resin from sticking. They have it on sollercomposites as well.

[laxman37]

umm... i went to the area you said to look at the sleeves. and at 1.5". There is light and heavy, as in oz/sq. yard. Which one should i use, light or heavy?

EDIT: I might have to make a teardrop one of those...

[trentstaaa24]

sweet man

[laxn]

Could u get a more zoomed out pic of the shaft when its done please like lying flat or holding it

[lildixon]

What would happen if you just took a regular shaft and put one layer of CF around it? Leaving the top wear you put the head in still the same. Would that help strength at all? I dunno, maybe a stupid question...

[lax4life6]

couple questions. 1- can you like compact the foam or something before you start to maybe make it a little stronger. like stick it in a vice tightly then start rounding it out?\


also when you say your first one was crooked, can you possibly make an offset shaft with this but leaving part of outside of the wooden blocks (that you use to straighten it)

[KnightsLAXDad]

umm... i went to the area you said to look at the sleeves. and at 1.5". There is light and heavy, as in oz/sq. yard. Which one should i use, light or heavy?
EDIT: I might have to make a teardrop one of those...

When I did it, they only had the the "light"

Could u get a more zoomed out pic of the shaft when its done please like lying flat or holding it

Like I said before - I gave it away to someone else, so I can't take naymore pics. All I have are on webshots under my username knightslaxdad

What would happen if you just took a regular shaft and put one layer of CF around it? Leaving the top wear you put the head in still the same. Would that help strength at all? I dunno, maybe a stupid question...

It probably would help, but I don't know how much, or if it's worth it.

couple questions. 1- can you like compact the foam or something before you start to maybe make it a little stronger. like stick it in a vice tightly then start rounding it out? also when you say your first one was crooked, can you possibly make an offset shaft with this but leaving part of outside of the wooden blocks (that you use to straighten it)

You can't compact the foam, that would just break it down, making it weaker. The pink/blue insultation styrofoam insulation is already fairly dense. It's not like the white stuff used for packing boxes. It doesn't really add much if any strength to the shaft. You can actually shape the pink/blue stuff using woodworking tools, like sandpaper and files. The foam is only semi-rigid, so it won't necessarily stay straight. That's why I lightly clamped it between two straight boards.

[Torque42]

I am sorry if this was already answered but how long did it take you to make it and how much did it cost...

[KnightsLAXDad]

Wow - an old thread resurrected.

laxman37 - it took me 4-7 hours total over two evenings. Like I said in the very first post way back when, it's a project, and it doesn't compare to a commercially made shaft, especially if $ are your main consideration

dillz18 - ask away. I wasn't going to post any more details.

and about $75-80

[regulate34]

that is frickin amazing i like it alot

[KnightsLAXDad]

A few people have asked since I posted about making my own carbon fiber
shaft in the Black Dragon thread so I'll post what I did.

First big warning - anything I did, and likely anything you do yourself will NOT
turn out like a Harrow or Black Dragon shaft. They are some sweet pieces
done by people with real experience, skill, and likely expensive, pro setups.
This is a do-it-yourself, just-for-fun kind of project, and the results look like
it. DO NOT EXPECT to produce a commercial quality piece!!!!

A couple of things first to cover my own butt
- this post does not constitute expert advice, it simply chronicles what I
have done as a hobby project
- I make no claims as to the suitability of the end product for its intended
use
- anyone trying to do this on their own, does so at their own risk



Since this thread has been brought back from a long while ago, I am quoting this for emphasis, since some people likely have not read through the entire thread from post #1. You have been suitably informed.

[ghser99]

awesome just awesome, i just want to know how strong it is to see if its worth my time to make

[winchester883]

This is so cool. What an awesome project thanks for all the info.

My question is when you are putting down your 3-5 layers of carbon fiber should you do all the layers at one time or should you do them individually and let each layer harden before starting the next?

I'm going to write sollercomposites and see what they say about the strength of the shaft doing it either way.

Oh here is a link to a diy site that shows you how to build a vacuum bag system real simply.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Vacuum-bagging-basics./

[laxmiddi307]

I know this is a old thread but how much money would this probably be. And please make a list of what I would need again.

[MaKiMaKi13]

I know this is a old thread but how much money would this probably be. And please make a list of what I would need again.

or you could just read the first page of the thread

[THE_1protector]

If you'd make them goalie-sized you've got your first customer.

a second one too.

[THE_1protector]

with this you could prolly make your own CF crankshaft. man that would be sweet. i just want one that is keep-sized.

[digital]

I saw a similar shaft on ebay. Wonder if you were selling it.