lifting vs. off-hand

[brineman9]

me and the other best laxer in our grade have a huge argument going on and it about whats more important..... working the off-hand or lifting weights... discuss.

[crispy92]

it all depends on what you need to work on, skill or strength. plus position might come into play here. If your a D pole you might want to work on your strength. Attack should work on off hand rather then strength.

BTW, how old are you

[brineman9]

14, freshman and attack. the other kid is a middy

[iceman212]

you probly want to work your off hand, because your off hand will get really srong from lifting, but that doesn't mean it will better. once your off hand becomes better, than you start lifting with it.

[lax-crazy]

.... why can't you do both?....

sometimes I really wonder about people

[brineman9]

i know what you mean crazy, but he says it's more important to lift than work on your off-hand.

[clutchlax]

who are you talking about

[brineman9]

who do ya think....

[Merc169]

who do ya think....


Is it me? I've been told I like to lift.

[lax-crazy]

Is it me? I've been told I like to lift.

yea it's you, you meat head haha

either way yo can still do both, neither should take that much time, think about it

gym = 1hour 3-4times a week
off hand/ both hand training 30-45min 2-7times a week

that isnt that much time, cut back on Halo 2, or guitar hero a little bit and you should be fine

[brineman9]

hm. i dont play video games anymore. i focus on school and sports. no im not quoting him but it was something like this... *after i said something about me stringing yesterday* dude cut the stringing crap and all the other stuff you do and work out that will make you a better lacrosse player than what you do. i replied with so off-hand wont make me better? and he said it will help but not as much as lifting

[lax-crazy]

if you say it that way, having a high combination of both will help out a lot. There was a big debate on a thread about "stick skills vs athletisism" which got heated. There are very good points on that, on which would be better. In terms of off hand vs working out. I would say working out, since there are people that I have met who don't really have an off hand and are absolute beasts at lacrosse. You will see one this year at cuse Cody Jamieson.

So an off hand is important, but you can get away with not having one. However the peopel I meet with no off hand and are amazing are also gods at box lacrosse. So don't get the idea that you will be fine with out one.

[clutchlax]

is it pat or riley?

[Hounds4life]

lifting is somewhat important, but if your really strong and cant throw or catch youll be terrible. Personally I think in freshman year off hand is more important unless your way way too small.

[Engine]

The two are not mutually exclusively, and aren't really comparable. They are both very important, so do them both.

[brineman9]

im not asking what do more so its just a debate. i do both and i personally think that the hs coach is going to be more impressed at off-hand comfortably then shot speed. and clutch it's riley

[crispy92]

well at the age of 14 you really dont need to worry much about lifting. definatly work on the off hand. im not saying dont work out but your off hand is more valuable on attack

[jtothep213]

Well, like said above, at 14-15 years old lifting can be a bad thing. Depending on how soon puberty (yes i said it) hits, lifting vigorously shouldn't really being until your sophomore year. Bodyweight excercises (i.e. pull-up, push-ups, bodyweight squats) are ideal for those of us who are just getting our first surge or two of testosterone.

Now, I being a senior have developed my stick skills while lifting. I play wallball for an hour or so a day and then I go to the gym for 1-2 hours and either lift or do cardiowork.

The way I see it, strength, endurance, and skill all form an equilateral triangle that form the ideal player. Balance these things, and you'll probably be a decent player at least.

I hope some of that was helpful.

[Lax4life528]

That's like asking if i need to practice throwing or catching. You need both.

[brineman9]

? ok lax. and thanks for the input

[Merc169]

Well, like said above, at 14-15 years old lifting can be a bad thing. Depending on how soon puberty (yes i said it) hits, lifting vigorously shouldn't really being until your sophomore year. Bodyweight excercises (i.e. pull-up, push-ups, bodyweight squats) are ideal for those of us who are just getting our first surge or two of testosterone.


Bam. I'm going to officially start having a line or phrase that I say when I enter a thread to disprove some stuff.

Lifting isn't bad for 14-15 year olds. It's actually quite alright for all ages. This has been proven. There have been countless threads on this forum about it with tons of links provided so I'm not going to go and find them for you but you can go search and realize you are spreading misinformation.

[Merc169]

yea it's you, you meat head haha


I'm not a meat head, I just being bigger and stronger then everyone haha.

[NEballa]

haha or you could just get sick with your strong hand. Unless you really have the potential to be rediculously fast/strong, i would try to work out to stay in shape, but focus on developing my stick skills. I know too many sick lacrosse players that are garbage athletes.

[indynation17]

do both. you will benefit from both working out and working on your off-hand.

[jtothep213]

Hence the "can be" portion of my comment. For some of us it is plenty fine. If we have been developing properly since say 12-13 then there are no issues. Just taking from what I see in high school and have heard in lifting classes (taught by licencesed trainers) if you are little behind on your development, lifting can add unhealthy stress to your bones and ligaments.

http://www.teengrowth.com/index.cfm?action=info_advice&ID_Advice=47676&category=sports&catdesc=Sports&subdesc=Fitness

In that article a young kids asks if he should be lifting. The response was just as mine was. "Probably not, but with the right habits it could be ok". Lifting requires a certain level of maturity, which I am willing to bet no 14 year old truly has. You have to eat right, hydrate well, and not overwork yourself. 14 year olds that have a sense of all this are very rare. Heck, even 17 year olds who are wise in this regard are rare.

So don't tell someone they're spreading misinformation when they have spent multiple years power lifting using many routines or like myself, worked in physical therapy for a while now. It is simply a question of maturity.

[Merc169]

Hence the "can be" portion of my comment. For some of us it is plenty fine. If we have been developing properly since say 12-13 then there are no issues. Just taking from what I see in high school and have heard in lifting classes (taught by licencesed trainers) if you are little behind on your development, lifting can add unhealthy stress to your bones and ligaments.

http://www.teengrowth.com/index.cfm?action=info_advice&ID_Advice=47676&category=sports&catdesc=Sports&subdesc=Fitness

In that article a young kids asks if he should be lifting. The response was just as mine was. "Probably not, but with the right habits it could be ok". Lifting requires a certain level of maturity, which I am willing to bet no 14 year old truly has. You have to eat right, hydrate well, and not overwork yourself. 14 year olds that have a sense of all this are very rare. Heck, even 17 year olds who are wise in this regard are rare.

So don't tell someone they're spreading misinformation when they have spent multiple years power lifting using many routines or like myself, worked in physical therapy for a while now. It is simply a question of maturity.

Your wording was poor. And yes I will tell whoever I want that they're spreading misinformation when they word things poorly and insinuate that lifting before puberty will stunt growth.

1. Lifting (even not through puberty) will not stunt growth. Period. Cbury has all the links both from NSCA database and plenty of others.
2. You do not have to eat right to lift right. Should you? Of course. Go look at most professional powerlifters. Most of them are at body fat % around 20%. That comes from not eating right, and eating too much because they refuse to sacrifice any opportunities to build muscle.
3. Age is irrelevant. That is why America is fat IMO. Maturity in the gym is irrelevant to maturity in life. I've seen the most immature clients of mine who are miserable in real life yield some of the best results in the gym. You can lead anyone to do the right thing. Also why some of the most "mature" people outside the gym, i.e. adults are some of the most out of shape people you see.
4. Most "licensed" trainers are garbage. If they teach lifting classes chances are they aren't anything more then ACE certified or something of that caliber. Look for NSCA, CSCS as valid worthwhile certifications. Does that mean people who don't have them can't offer something? No of course not, everyone can offer a separate viewpoint. Are they the most accredited people? Not at all. They're the people that teach in high schools, consumer gyms, and train out of their homes.

[canuklax]

i really dont understand how someone can be confused on this situation.

first off, liftin is importnat in basically all sports that require and form of athletisism(spelling?). you can get away without lifting but it helps alot. If you do decide to lift MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!! i cant stress this enough. Half the guys i see at the gym do the same thing everytime, they go in and do bench press/bicep curls the whole time. This will Accomplish nothing, when was the last time you scored a goal or broke someone's ankles because you had big guns? yea it never happened.

Once you know what to do make sure your doing it properley! excersise WILL NOT do what there suposed to if your not doing them right. I cant count the number of times ive seen someone doing deadlifts and putting there whole back into it ( which is the opposit of what you want to do).

When it comes to lifting really do research if you dont want all those hours of working out to go to waste. lifting weights seems something idiot proof but in reality is very complicated. You need to know which muscle's are going to help you, you need to make sure you do lower body and upper body, you need a good routine, you need to know if you want high reps low sets or low reps high sets, you need to know if your going to do a split, full body or isolation workout.

i could go on for hours on this but i wont. if your going to get into lifting( which i recommend) go to www.bodybuilding.com it will clear alot up and tell you what you need to do.I strongly recommend working out, it helps.

if you need anymore info you can PM me.





as for off hand, well its pretty simple i dont see how lifting and off hand can get in eachothers way. you can easily do both. just go play wall ball simple as that. take your stick on jogs and cradle with your off hand, it may look dumb but it will help. Working on off hand is extremely simple.

[Merc169]

When it comes to lifting really do research if you dont want all those hours of working out to go to waste. lifting weights seems something idiot proof but in reality is very complicated. You need to know which muscle's are going to help you, you need to make sure you do lower body and upper body, you need a good routine, you need to know if you want high reps low sets or low reps high sets, you need to know if your going to do a split, full body or isolation workout.

i could go on for hours on this but i wont. if your going to get into lifting( which i recommend) go to www.bodybuilding.com it will clear alot up and tell you what you need to do.I strongly recommend working out, it helps.



Some of the best advice yet in this thread. That being said, stay away from bb.com. Bunch of kiddies who tell each other to cut at 155 lbs because they've lost their abs or tell the skinny kid to eat everything in sight and watch him get fatter with little to no muscle accumulation.

www.t-nation.com
www.intensemuscle.com

much better sites.

t-nation is a much more broad site and probably the better for everyone here. IM.com is more on the hardcore side and not much relevance to athletics, but still a good site.

[reLax99]

apples and oranges

[mattlax16]

do both, but also work on general motor skills and coordination with your off hand. The reason your off hand often feels weird to use in sports is partly b/c the motor skills in that hand/side arent as advanced as your good hand. Practice basic movements, motions, shoot w/o a ball, w/o a stick, anything to get a good feel in that hand.

[LHSLAX17]

As 14 and Attack, I'd say off hand is more important, after you master that focus more on weights.

[lax-crazy]

As 14 and Attack, I'd say off hand is more important, after you master that focus more on weights.

as a player who is in college and has played middie/ attack at high levels, you need both.

you may not be experienced at your age in either topic to debate.

[brineman9]

i work my off-hand every day for at least an hour a day thank you very much.

[LHSLAX17]

as a player who is in college and has played middie/ attack at high levels, you need both.

you may not be experienced at your age in either topic to debate.

Not experienced? I'm at 3.4% body fat and I have no better arm to play or shoot with...

[Merc169]

i work my off-hand every day for at least an hour a day thank you very much.

I could say "what are you doing with that off-hand" and be inappropriate and what not but I'm not.

That being said, work enough on your off hand so that it's no longer an off-hand and just the other hand you use to the same extent and prowess as your main hand.

[MavsLax]

Not experienced? I'm at 3.4% body fat and I have no better arm to play or shoot with...

When I was 14, I was just around 3% body fat too but I was also 5'4 and 110 lbs. and then next thing I couldn't walk through doors without ducking. Honestly, IMO when you are that young, body fat %, weight and height doesn't really matter. 3 years from now everything will be a lot differnt.

And didn't you just start a thread that said you wanted to drop weight?

[Merc169]

Not experienced? I'm at 3.4% body fat and I have no better arm to play or shoot with...

LHS, you started another thread about how you needed to lose 35-40 lbs...which has been closed for not following the rules here:

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=135774

So you are 3.4% bodyfat and need to lose 35-40 lbs?

How bout instead of spamming everything and anything in the training forum and saying you have all this experience about everything when you contradict yourself at every corner, do yourself a favor, stop posting, get in the gym, hit a wall, and get better. You have zero credibility here.

[Engine]

Not experienced? I'm at 3.4% body fat and I have no better arm to play or shoot with...

Low body fat percentage does not equal good athlete. A good athletic body needs plenty of fat.

[lax-crazy]

LHS, you started another thread about how you needed to lose 35-40 lbs...which has been closed for not following the rules here:

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=135774

So you are 3.4% bodyfat and need to lose 35-40 lbs?

How bout instead of spamming everything and anything in the training forum and saying you have all this experience about everything when you contradict yourself at every corner, do yourself a favor, stop posting, get in the gym, hit a wall, and get better. You have zero credibility here.

seconding this

[lax-crazy]

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=112073&highlight=athleticism

another thread about this sort of topic, but its stick skills vs athleticism , lots of good exampls about which is more important

[Merc169]

Low body fat percentage does not equal good athlete. A good athletic body needs plenty of fat.

Wrong. A good athletic body needs plenty of control. The best athletes are the ones that can make their body do exactly what they want at the exact time they demand it.

Not to mention, that advice of having plenty of fat is a slippery slope waiting to happen of people saying now I can be fat but still be a good athlete. The best athletes in the world are for the most part between 6-10% bodyfat.

[Engine]

What I meant was not that you can be fat. By "plenty of fat," I meant your 6%-10% range. The misconception I was trying to correct was that being emaciated is good athletic shape, I.E. LHS's supposed 3% body fat.

[Show'emTheNumba]

At 3.4%, what do you weigh? Also, to the OP, stay away from bodybuilding.com. Hit up T-nation. And save your self esteem and please do not do the "Rate my physique" right off the bat.

[brineman9]

hahahahahha

[Merc169]

At 3.4%, what do you weigh? Also, to the OP, stay away from bodybuilding.com. Hit up T-nation. And save your self esteem and please do not do the "Rate my physique" right off the bat.

Hahaha you sound like someone who is speaking from experience about the RMP.

[shaneTHEking]

everyone just needs to learn how to put everything in balance. its not one thing is better than the other you need all of it.

[lincsta]

do d poles need to work on offhand alot too?

[shaneTHEking]

yes but dont worry about defensive shooting offhand unless maybe your a lsm.

[Merc169]

do d poles need to work on offhand alot too?

Catching and throwing for sure as well as just switching hands. I played LSM/close D in college and other then the rare chance where I just ran the field and got to 1v1 with the goalie (normally didn't happen, normally I'd dump off to an attackman for an easy goal for them and an assist for me) I wouldn't shoot. If I did shoot it would be with my main hand and many goalies have issues defending a long poles shot because of the extra speed and the head coming from a much different area then a short stick.