Week ending Mar. 21 - Media Poll

[hbmedic]

:WTF: What a messed up year this is turning out to be...

RANKINGS
1. Johns Hopkins (4-0)- 419 (12 first place votes)
2. Virginia (6-0)- 413 (5)
3. Duke (7-0)- 387
4. Maryland (4-1)- 372
5. Georgetown (4-1)- 354
6. Navy (5-1)- 322
7. Notre Dame (3-1)- 313
8. Syracuse (1-3)- 302
9. Army (3-1)- 273
10. Cornell (2-1)- 259
11. Massachusetts (4-1)- 226
12. Princeton (0-3)- 218
13. Hobart (4-1)- 200
14. Towson (4-2)- 190
15. Hofstra (2-3)- 181
16. Rutgers (2-2)- 151
17. North Carolina (1-4)- 128
18. Denver (3-2)- 127
19. Bucknell (3-2)- 124
20. Brown (2-1)- 93
Others recieving votes: Stony Brook 90, Penn State 41, Albany 40, Ohio State 31, Yale 24, Loyola 20, Dartmouth 24, Delaware 22, UMBC 15, Drexel 14, Fairfield 9, Harvard 9, Lehigh 8, Villanova 7, Colgate 4, Sacred Heart 2


Lots of big games on the 26th should clear some things up, but I am very disappointed in the normal powerhouses of lacrosse.. This week Hopkins play Virginia, Syracuse plays Princeton, Navy plays nobody (Lehigh) as usual, Maryland plays Dartmouth & UNC, G'town plays and hopefully beats Duke, Carolina plays Cornell, and Notre Dame plays Hofstra. Hopefully Hopkins will send Virginia on a tumble through the rankings, and G'Town will shock Duke and send them on an even faster drop through the polls..I'd also like to see UNC finally come together and put Maryland down with Duke and Virginia at 8, 9, & 10.. Thats about where I feel those three teams belong.. but thats just my opinion..

Virginia and Duke are finally coming up on the real Div. 1 part of their schedules, we'll see if their all the rankings imply.. I doubt they are..

VA has beaten Drexel, Manhattan, Syracuse & Princeton (Who Hasn't), Mt. St. Mary's, and Towson.. Wow.. truly a deserving #2 schedule.. Now they play JHU, MD, UNC, and Duke.. Hopefully all 4 will be losses..

Duke has beaten Butler, UMBC, VMI, MD, Penn St., Loyola, and UNC by 2 goals..again, an obviously well deserved #3 ranking.. what a tough schedule.. At least 2 of the teams they have played are ranked?!

Hopkins plays 2 Unranked teams and 12 ranked teams on their way to the National Championship.. that is a real D1 schedule.. Not petering through a bunch of nobody's holding onto an undefeated record..and for some reason getting poll respect obviously based solely on wins and losses.. Luckily they play the games to clear this stuff up.. Hopefully, Syracuse, Princeton, and Carolina will wake up and try to salvage whats left of their seasons.. If Carolina can win the ACC tourney they can get an auto tourney bid, but if not, I don't think they even get in the tourney, which is a shame.. We'll see what happens this week..

hbm

[SDS416]

your criticism of Navy's schedule is unreal. Give it a rest. Aside from their league games (and you really can't go around judging strength of schedule by that, its you you play when you don't have to that you should look at), they play Hopkins, Maryland, Georgetown, North Carolina, Ohio State and Providence. Of those 6 teams, 5 were ranked in the preseason top 20. Thats not an easy schedule.

[hbmedic]

Yeah, I guess if you look at the Pre-season Strenght of Schedule rankings in IL's Faceoff Yearbook, you would see that Navy's schedule ranking is 15th of 25.. So if 15 of 25 isn't an easy schedule (for a supposed top 10 team) then what is Hopkins #1 ranking for strength of schedule?! On your scale, I guess it would be Impossible?!

The midshipmen are a bunch of chumps.. A guy I graduated with, Marcine Wheatfall who was a starting middie on my high school team, went to the Naval Academy, and his brother Wally who was also a starting middie on my HS team, went to West Point.. Sir, no matter how many times you try you will never be able to get over my connections and knowledge of lacrosse and teams throughout this country.. I know first hand and through friends just about every top 20 team in the Country in both D1 and D3.. and a Veteran of both the Regular Army and National Guard I have a right to criticise the military or whatever branch I want.. the Naval Academy does not emphasize lacrosse recruiting, they got lucky last year and just happened to get a bunch of good players in this class, this time around.. Towson played in the National Championship once, that doesn't make them a Perennial Powerhouse in D1 Lacrosse.. Wake up.. hbm

hbm

[DC-Lax-Crew]

hbmedic, your post is ridiculous at this time of the year. If it was the end of the year and UVA / Duke had played all nobodies, that would be different, but they're just coming up on the hardest portion of the their schedules.

If you look at the Strength of Schedule ratings:
UVA - 2
Duke - 3 (tie)
Cuse - 3 (tie)
UMD - 5
UNC - 6
You'd notice that UVA and Duke's SOS is up there, so wait to complain about rankings until they've played more than half their schedule.

I attend almost every ACC game in the midatlantic region, esp UVA/UMD, and your criticisms are pretty baseless. There's a difference between just beating Manhattan/Towson and dismantling them (18-2, 14-3) with back-ups playing the final quarter. Virginia should be higher than you're giving them credit (if you're thinking #8-10), and this should play out over the season. Duke is strong on paper, but seems hot-and-cold in game situations, they'll lose their fair share, but are a very improved team over last year. As for UNC, their midfield play is ugly on offense and defense, and face-offs are killing them. So unfortunately for you (as it sounds like you're a Carolina fan and dislike the others), UVA is back in their standard form, Duke is actually much improved on the field (needs some leadership for consistency), and UNC is having issues with the middies (Prossner even played mid a little to try and spark them this weekend).

Another thing you forget is the fact that ACC teams not only play a tough regular season schedule, they have to play two more games in the ACC tournament. So they have an extra one or two games against top 10-15 opponents (as most years UVA/UMD/UNC are up there). These additional games make their seasons extra difficult, as it's hard to top UMD/UVA/UNC twice (at least in most years, UNC may be the exception this go around).




Why are you getting so worked up over rankings anyways? This isn't football, there is no BCS, the lacrosse tournament system makes rankings almost pointless anyways.

I dont know if your resume or "connections" touch the ACC, as I don't know if you follow ACC lacrosse from Cali as much as I am able to, but the ACC tournament champion does NOT get an automatic bid to the NCAAs, doesnt qualify for auto bid w/ only 4 teams.

[stegmakk]

Princeton and Cuse are overrated...
Princeton #11 with 0 wins...
Cuse at #8 with a 1-3 record (that 1 win was a sloppy win over Army which looked sluggish in their first game compared to now.
Other than that I have no real arguments...as was stated it is a media poll, and will never match my feelings exactly so I take it with a grain of salt...I just still cant swallow Cuse and Princeton though...

[hbmedic]

First of all, have you ever played on the turf or at Byrd stadium at Maryland?! Have you ever played at Carolina?! Have you ever played at the Carrier dome?! Well, I have..

I am from Maryland, where I lived except for my two years in Hawaii during my Military Service, until I was 27.. Where I played Little League, Hero's, High School, College, and Countless Club team Lacrosse.. I have more friends that went to Maryland than you probably have friends.. I have several friends that went to Carolina, that is why I like Carolina.. Not to mention my Father and Cousin live there. My actual favorite team is John's Hopkins.. not Carolina..

I didn't say that VA or Duke have Easy Schedule's overall, I said they have played easy schedules thus far.. Now that they are facing the real D1 "meat" of their schedule, I believe you will see them fall.. After all last year they were 5-8 and lost to Air Force, and Denver.. Granted Christmas was injured.. they just aren't the team they once were, and yes, I was happy they got beaten so badly last year.. Duke has great recruiting, I am very happy that their school is taking lacrosse so seriously year after year, regardless of the fact that every season their top 2 or 3 players defect to bigger historical lacrosse schools.. but I don't want to see them in the Final Four..

Your assessment of these teams is admirable, your knowledge as well seems well rounded.. However, there is bias in your statement and remarks.. Go back to Virginia or stop marketing yourself as a DC guy.. I used to beat up on teams in the DC area.. Landon, St. John's College HS, Gonzaga.. it was fun.. I knew Taylor Simmers very well and I hope he has finally gotten permenant teeth to replace the dentures he had when I knew him.. As for the Auto bid for the ACC tourney, well you are correct technically, but I challenge you that if Carolina was to win the ACC tourney they would still be denied the NCAA tourney regardless of their ranking or record.. Ofcourse UVA, MD, and UNC are "up there" in schedule, they are all Perennial Powers in lacrosse.. their going to have tough schedules every single year.. Navy and Duke are not.. and there is a reason for that.. Just as in the west you have the USILA rather than throwing Colorado State, BYU, Michigan, Florida St, VA Tech, GA Tech and other normally High D1 schools to the wolves of lacrosse history like Hopkins, Syracuse, Princeton, and Carolina.. Do you think the conferences were developed in lacrosse by geographical location?! Hofstra in the Colonial with Towson?! UMBC in the America East with Albany? G'town in the ECAC with Hobart, Penn St., Rutgers, and Loyola..?! The great western is the closest and most handicapped conference that most closely resembles a geographical conference and that is just coincedence that the East is the strong location of lacrosse.. Notre Dame, Denver, Ohio St, and Air Force.. If conferences were not divided as such and teams were not given the opportunity to accomplish things by Not playing Hopkins, Syracuse, Princeton, Carolina, Maryland, and Virginia.. recruiting would suffer greatly.. Teams have to win and have accomplishments to offer to prospective players.. That is why the USILA exists.. Conferences are divided as such to provide a fence from the Perennial powers of lacrosse.. and it has obviously worked because teams like Duke, Notre Dame, and Georgetown are finally keeping players that will propel them to the top of the rankings.. Never the less players still leave for other schools.. 2 years ago, Duke lost its top 2 scorers to Loyola.. Maybe now that Loyola and Towson are dropping in the polls every year the defections will reverse.. who knows.. I have a lot of respect for the ACC. I grew up around U of MD.. as I have stated before my best friend in elementary school's mother worked in the Athletic Dept. at Maryland.. adjacent to Byrd stadium.. and I was already 4 years into playing lacrosse at the time.. I'm not worked up.. with your bold print, maybe you are.. All I'm saying is not to let the rankings fool you into thinking Duke and Virginia have dominated D1 at this point.. when in all reality they haven't.. hbm

[DC-Lax-Crew]

No need to try to personally insult someone just because their view differs from yours. To say you have more friends at Maryland than I have friends in no way furthers your argument nor gains you any credibility. Nor does pointless comments on my username, I don't need to "go back to Virginia" nor do I need to market myself, DC-Lax-Crew is in reference to my alumni fan group (DC Lax Crew) who make an effort to travel to at least one game a weekend. We are composed of alumni from several D1-D3 schools in the MD/DC/VA area. You are welcome to join us on any one of our tailgates should you happen to ever be back in the area.

As for bias, of course I'm up on UVA this week, the DC Lax Crew went to UVA the past couple weekends, and just got back from watching UVA dismantle Towson without yawning, a Towson team that i HAD been impressed with in a couple games thus far, I thought they had a little potential again. So our last two trips are freshest in my mind. Don't try to make up some agenda where there isn't any, I was ripping UVA last year on competing websites. After speaking w/ Conor Gill on this year's transformation, seems the UVA just needed some leadership last year, and it took too long to come out. This year they've got it in Ward, not to mention the standard recruit haul that UVA/UMD/Hop/Cuse manage to pull in every year. Also spoke w/ Towson's assistant coach Weston (met him on a plane to Anaheim last year oddly enough) and he said they've got some attack guys playing hurt which could explain their drop-off in offense, but i dont think that's enough to explain their performance Saturday.

I don't see how your last post is too relevant to the entire thread, the reasons why conferences/divisions were formed is irrelevant to the main post, which regards schedules and the potential miscalculation of rankings. If you're not worked up over the rankings, then I misread, but it seemed you were pretty worked up over what you perceived as a misleading sway in the rankings. I don't think anyone is fooled into thinking Duke or Virginia have dominated D1 at this point. At this point in the season it would be ridiculous to speculate on anyone dominating the division to this point. Rankings in every sport always lean on history/last year, that's why UVA starts so high preseason even though they were 5-7 last year, and why when a championship team loses a ton of talent in a year they can still be ranked #1 the next year.


If you want to have a discussion based on opinions and observations, I'm more than up for it (as I would be interested in you attended or have any impressions on the Cali event, esp the play of GTown). I can provide game observations from most teams in the midatlantic this year (GT, Navy, UMD, UVA, Duke, UNC, Towson, Hop) if you haven't been able to see them in person this year. But if you want to get personal or compare lacrosse resumes, I really don't have the time or energy for it.

[DC-Lax-Crew]

To get back on topic w/ this thread....

Virginia will manage to lose a couple this year, they are not going to dominate D1 w/ their schedule, they rely too much on a few main attack threats. For some reason though, Hop-UVA always manages to be a close game, and the #1 team in that match-up has been knocked off in like 8 games out of the past 10 seasons (last year #1 Hop lost, year before #1 UVA lost), so it wouldn't surprise me to see either team win. It will depend on how well Hop adapts, as last year UVA inverted their defense, had their long poles play Hop's middies and had short sticks covering the attack. Worked amazingly well, and in a close game Hop's mids were slowed down enough and UVA got the W. If Hop can adapt better this year or move things quicker, they could get their shots in. Same with UVA, they need to adapt to Hop's defense, as they've been having some slow slides which could be taken advantage of. However both teams have had pretty sloppy passing lately around the crease. Whoever's offense manages a cleaner game (passing and shot selection) could have their way, as both defenses have their weaknesses right now. It's one of those games where you're not going to out-talent the other team, it's gonna come down to fundamentals.


Duke will not be in the Final Four, so i dont think you need to worry. :) Pressler is good at keeping games close, which has definitely benefits the Devils as of late. They have exceeded expectations and have some confidence going now, something they have lacked in past seasons. Their attack is running well w/ Danowski and the pleasant addition of Greer. Their top two mid lines are also playing well above expectations, esp with Dowd from Hop (what? a player transferring INTO duke :) ). Duke will go as deep into the season as their goal play and defense will take them, as both are young. And their D definitely benefitted from some very poor shot selection by Maryland, or that game couldve been drastically different. Their face-off guy is a freshman, who is having some up-and-down games, struggling at times. When Duke starts to play more athletic and faster teams, their young D could be taken advantage of, and I presume this will happen. Like I said above, they are young at several key spots, and need some leadership to maintain consistency. They'll end up in the tournament, but I don't see a deep run.

Since you've got a bunch of friends at Maryland, I'm sure you're aware of their current strengths/weaknesses, so I won't get into that. They've played above, at, and below my expectations this year, depending on the day and even the quarter in some instances. In the times I've seen them, I haven't seen enough consistency to get a good grip on their chances this year, but I'm sure they'll start to string it together as they approach the ACC tournament in Baltimore and the NCAAs.

As for UNC - what can I say, who knows what happened. They have started some games so strong, only to stumble in the later portions. They have good ball movement and isolation plays. Zimmerman has been fairly effective with face-offs and much improved over last year, but he's not doing much else better that I've seen. Walterhoeffer is actually playing above my high expectations for him, but they still need some more help in the middie department. As I said above, they've put Prossner at middie occasionally to help, but he didn't give them the spark they needed. That spark was provided by Blair in a few spots, but he's disappeared some games too. I expected, and think most people did as well, more out of Spellman this year. Esp after watching him last year against Hop at the quarterfinals. He is capable of better, and there have been an abundance of sloppy goals that he really had little chance of stopping due to slow defensive slides. UNC is capable of stringing together some wins, but they need to start right now, and take care of business at Cornell.

I actually haven't seen Cornell at all this year, any indication of their play so far, you think UNC can start to get some confidence and W's with Cornell this week?

And to get the thread in a more light-hearted tone, and bury any hatchets from our first broadside, here's a random monkey -> :monkey:

[hbmedic]

Very nice.. As I have said before your arguments are very well put and backed up with knowledge.. I like that.. I have already posted what I thought of the First 4.. I was obviously disappointed.. I thought UNC seemed lazy.. as I also felt about their game against Hofstra.. I thought Prossner seemed to be simply going through the motions and half heartedly at that.. I also thought Notre Dame was impressive.. their Middies and Goalie were very impressive.. Syracuse didn't impress me either.. and the only part of Georgetown that impressed me was their keeper..

I am glad you are part of a group that travels around, seemingly without agenda(?), to attend lacrosse games and support the sport as a whole.. thats great.. I'm glad you are enthusiastic about it.. I didn't intend to insult you personally.. I have no idea if you have more friends than I have friends that attended Maryland.. I haven't had any friends attend Maryland since probably 1994.. but the program hasn't changed much. The extent of my friends attending D1 schools is pretty much prior to 1995 throughout.. I keep up on the current rosters and current conditions at schools through players in my club league here in Southern California, watching games on various Fox Sports networks, ESPNU, and CSTV, as well as Inside lacrosse articles, previews, reviews, and lacrosse magazine.. thats about the extend of my knowledge and insight into today's NCAA D1 schools.. You seem much more in touch with the teams of today than I do.. and I appreciate that..

Players I know, some that live here now, that played for Maryland are, Mike Hubbard, Mark Morgan, Scott Hochstadt, Nate Watkins, Howard Alperin, Chris Solaro, and Pat Teubner.. Others that you may know that are friends of mine and now play out here are Mike Kanach, Sean Cartin, Kevin Noonan, and Eli our goalie from Georgetown; Casey Powell from Syracuse; Connor Denihan, Ed Zuchelli, and Dave Rabuano of Hopkins; Todd Eichelberger from Princeton; Mike Reichtsmeier, AJ Wright, Al Cade, Brian Flately, and Steve Sepeta from Notre Dame; Sean Donelly, Arthur Rhodes, Adam Ochs, Alex Borcz, Jack Downes, Jon Fargis, Andy Fortmann, Nick Lockwood, Jamie O'Leary, John Peterson, JL Reppert, Jamie Slough, and Bryce Whiting all from the Naval Academy; Scott Diggs from Duke; Woody Moore and Chris Driggs from Virginia.. Just to name a few of the players I know that you may recognize.. Tim Gosier who played for Carolina was just out here last week and came out to do a fastest shot contest and accuracy contest for the HS team I coach.. I know a lot of people in and around lacrosse.. I've been around a while.. I have the feeling you have too.. thats great.. Keep spreading your interest and influence on lacrosse.. Your opinion, knowledge, and research is very much apporeciated..

Hopefully Carolina will string some wins together but I think their done for this year and for the near future as well.. but I'm sure I happily said the same thing about Virginia last year.. and their right up there this year.. Take care.. hbm