Hmmm, Maryland or New York.. not a hotbed?!

[hbmedic]

In only the second week of the STX/Inside Lacrosse National High Schol Poll there is already a new #1, as St. Pauls moves into the top spot. Garden City makes its debut in this year's poll at #10 following wins over then-#1 Manhasset, Bethpage and Lynbrook. Manhasset dropped to #7. #3 McDonogh notched a key OT win over #5 Boys' Latin on Tuesday and #4 Landon gave an 8-6 loss to Haverford, which sits in sixth place despite two losses (their other loss was in OT to #1 St. Paul's). Three teams dropped out of the poll this week, including Georgetown Prep (4-3), St. Mary's (MD, 1-4) and Massapequa (0-2). Moving into the rankings are Orchard Park (NY) and Mountain Lakes (NJ), neither of which have played yet, and Chaminade, which has a win over then-#21 Massapequa.

STX/Inside Lacrosse National High School Poll
March 30, 2005

1. St. Paul’s (MD)
2. West Genesee (NY)
3. McDonogh (MD)
4. Landon (MD)
5. Boys' Latin (MD)
6. Haverford (PA)
7. Manhasset (NY)
8. Gilman (MD)
9. West Islip (NY)
10. Garden City (NY)
11. Darien (CT)
12. Deerfield (MA)
13. Loyola (MD)
14. Summit (NJ)
15. Ward Melville (NY)
16. Northport (NY)
17. La Salle (PA)
18. Farmingdale (NY)
19. Delbarton (NJ)
20. St. Anthony’s (NY)
21. Calvert Hall (MD)
22. Western Reserve (OH)
23. Chaminade (NY)
24. Orchard Park (NY)
25. Mountain Lakes (NJ)

Honorable mention (in alphabetical order):
Broadneck (MD), Centennial (MD), Cold Spring Harbor (NY), Comsewogue (NY), Corning East (NY), DeMatha (MD), Duxbury (MA), Episcopal Dallas (TX), Georgetown Prep (MD), Golden (CO), Hicksville (NY), Highland Park (TX), La Costa Canyon (CA), LaFayette (NY), Langley (VA), Lassiter (GA), Lovett(GA), Massapequa (NY), Malvern (PA), McCallie (TN), Penn Yan (NY), Regis Jesuit (CO), Ridgewood (NJ), Ridley (PA), Severn (MD), Severna Park (MD), Skaneateles (NY), South Side (NY), St. Annes-Belfield (VA), St. Christopher's (VA), St. Mary’s (MD), Upper Arlington (OH), Wantagh (NY), Wilton (CT), Woodson (VA), Yorktown (NY)

Dropped out: Georgetown Prep, Massapequa, St. Mary’s


I've discussed here whether or not Maryland or New York are hotbeds of lacrosse or not.. Maybe this will settle it a bit.. At least there is one team in the top 10 not from Maryland or New York...and a couple between 10-20.. Maybe in a ten years I'll need to reconsider?!

hbm :nofear:

[hbmedic]

Typical unfounded argument.. so basically you believe US Lacrosse, STX, and Inside Lacrosse are just anti-48 states?! So I suppose since you believe that they actually are neglecting teams in other states and areas that could actually beat teams in Maryland or New York, that the teams from outside of those two states that are in the current poll are superhuman..? So the fact also, that most if not all of the collegiate D1 and D3 teams in the country as well as all of the participants in this poll are conspiring or intentionally discriminating against teams in all of the other states?! As a coach in one of those "Other" states, and a former player at all levels IN Maryland, I can tell you I have seen HS teams competing for the championships of other states as well as California..and they are nowhere near the talent, skill, and ability of the current teams from Maryland and New York you see ranked here. And that is not to imply that there aren't individuals that could fit in Maryland and/or New York, but it takes a team to win a game, not an individual, and as a whole, teams across the country are just lacking in overall talent. Most of the teams in other states couldn't even compete with my High School team 20 years ago, much less the teams of today who are probably at the level of some college teams of my era.. Its literally amazing the high school talent in Maryland and New York these days.. At this point, I think several teams in the top 10 could beat Princeton this season..or other lower ranked D1 teams.. I may be exaggerating a little. But their very good, they could at least compete.. Just keep practicing, get your friends together when your not at practice.. get a goal for your backyard.. You have to live with that stick in your hand whenever you walk out the door and even when your in the house, have that stick in your hand.. hbm

[jvshockmiddie25]

hmmm hmmm agreed man..laxislifeliveit... sometimes i sleep with my stick...


just kidding

yeah some of the guys from md and ny are insane like i went to this tourny called LAXMAX in Pikesville Maryland and the little tyker kidns were crazy good for being like 5-6-7-8-9 or whatever it is just insane to think hey i was at their level like 2 years ago..

[hbmedic]

Yeah, I know you agreed in principle, but in your 3rd point, you pointed out that in reality, teams in other states haven't played those teams, so how could the polls really predict that they wouldn't win..?! So I was arguing with that.. But last year, for example, a team from here, Torrey Pines, played Garden City.. (#10 on this poll) and won 9-8.. Doc Dougherty the coach of Garden City implied in his post game interview that the athleticism of the players on Torrey Pines was the difference and not the skill or ball handling of the his players. I probably agree with that.. Although I usually say that teams with better lacrosse fundementals, and ball handling would still win because athletic lacrosse teams that lack skill and finesse usually over commit on the defensive end and get beat by the better skilled players.. I guess in this particular example my theory was wrong.. However, I saw Torrey Pines play this year at the First 4 tournement and I didn't think they look that good, but I tend to look for skill, finesse, and ball handling rather than athleticism or conditioning.. something Navy and Army in Div. 1 thrive off of..

Now, with regards to your insults.. thats fine, and mature.. I don't think I included any insults in my "argument" with your 3 points.. So if you want to insult me thats fine, but as other people reading this probably realize, which one of us is the "Stupid" one..?! So Maybe you should leave out the insults in the future and not use words that don't exist like "Prooved"?! Take care man.. hbm

[GIattack]

24. Orchard Park (NY)


i saw them play the other week holy cow, they look pretty good this year. wouldnt be suprised if OP makes it to the class A championship this year

[blckout20]

Honestly, nobody is arguing that Maryland and New York aren't the two most dominant states in lacrosse. The only thing anyone has ever said is that good players come out of every state not just New York and Maryland. Now with me saying that you are going to come out with all these numbers about how all the rosters of D1 and D3 teams are filled with players from Maryland and New York and that's fantastic. You are way to obsessed on proving that Maryland and New York are the most dominant states for lacrosse, and no one here is disagreeing with you so get over it. Thats great that 90% of the top 10 are from Maryland and New York all he said was that it would be more accurate to see Garden City or Gilman play Darien or Deerfield to see who was the better of the two teams. I agree with that the the polls aren't 100% accurate this isn't arguing that Maryland and New York aren't the best, just that the polls aren't perfect and they never will be because it's physically immpossible.

[serbocroat]

I agree that in the start of the season the top teams should be from New York and Maryland. However, I think by the end of the season there will be teams from other areas that emerge that are clearly able to compete with the East. It seems like Western Reserve Academy is going to be real strong this year. Despite the fact I think Califronia lax is really overrated Coranado did already beat Wantagh from New York. I think when Mercer Island travels back to New York to play Corning East, Orchard Park, Skaneatles, Guilderland, and Shaker it will clearly establish them as a team that can compete with anyone. Which by the way they already prove last year when they played Fayettville-Manlius in New York two days after they beat West Genesee. And even though MI lost it was a really close game 5-7.

[stegmakk]

Unfortunately you can't really gauge a GC vs a Torrey Pines game, or a West Genny vs a whatever simply on the fact that the game means NOTHING to either team. A coach of course wants to win, but isn't going to run his team tired or a risk of getting hurt, when the game means nothing.
I think I replied on HBM's other post about this. I also think you can't rate the teams until the end of the season, and I like Laxpower's rankings better than STX ones.
Looking at 2004, 7 teams were not from NY/MD in the top 25. 11 in 2003, 8 in 2002. This averages out to be about 36% of the top 25 teams are from anything but NY/MD every year (64% of the top 25 teams are from either NY or MD). In about 10 years, I can see this flip-flopping so 36% of the top 25 teams will still be NY/MD (these 2 states will still have the most teams in top 25 per individual state), but other states will make up 64% of the top 25.

[hbmedic]

Thats a bold statement, its not like other states like Virginia, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania are new to lacrosse.. They've been playing lacrosse almost as long, if not as long as Maryland and New York schools have, and their still not represented equally.. I don't think representation will ever get beyond 50% of All of the other states in the country versus Maryland and New York.. and there are many factors I attribute that to. hbm

[NorthernViking]

Being a numbers type, here is a quick breakdown for the rosters of the current top 3 D1 teams, Hopkins, Duke and UVA, and where their players hail from. To time consuming to do all to the top 25, or even top 10.

NY-41, MD-31, VA-14, PA-9, NJ-8, CT-4, TX-3, CO-2, MI-2, NC-2, Ont CAN-2, and DE, IL, MA and OH each with one. Total of 122 players, 72 or 59% come from MD or NY.

Also, being the homer that I am, 16 of the MD players are from one conference, the MIAA "A" conference(Gilman, St. Pauls, Loyola, etc), with 3-4 from the Baltimore area public schools, and the rest from the DC area IAC conference (Landon, Gtown Prep, etc.).

There is good talent spread around the country, but MD and NY provide the best hands down.

Just my 2 cents!

[serbocroat]

First of all stegmakk I don't see how you can say that game like
Torrey Pines and GC don't mean anything. The entire point of intersectional games is to represent your team and region against the opponent. It would be much harder to calculate national rankings without these games. Without games such as landon vs. yorktown (16-8) we would not have a good idea of how teams who normally wouldn't play each other match up. Do you think that the landon or the yorktown players didn't care about the game. What kind of player wouldn't care about their overall record. For me intersectional games where teams play teams from other states and make a strong statement about themselves, either by winning or losing, are more important than state championships. Second, clearly Maryland and New York produce more good players than anywhere else but I think that other states produce players of the same quality and skill as New york and Maryland. I think that the West Coast may lack some of the finesse of the East Coast players but they make up for it with their superior athleticisim. Most teams can't compete with a landon, boy's latin, or west genesee but that includes the teams in their states.

[hbmedic]

C'mon, goalies are dumb.. its just a known fact.. and New Hampshire isn't actually part of Canada, but with regards to lacrosse, it may as well be.. I appreciate you agreeing with me mr hockey goalie.. thank you.. But I was just clarifying on a point you were trying to make, even though you didn't outright spell it out, you were implying that since teams from other states don't play teams in NY or MD, that a poll showing mostly MD & NY teams was merely speculation without an actual playoff.. And I was not really Arguing with you as much as I was furthering my point with evidence and examples..

With regards to your spelling, I don't really care, I mean this is basically a conversation format, but Prooved is not a word, and you shouldn't use it in a conversation because it may make you look ignorant, even when your using it in insults toward someone else.. So I was really trying to help you out, not point out grammar and punctuation.. Obviously I don't follow correct punctuation, or grammar here, but I do try to use words that exist. Some people here use U as You and R for are, nothing wrong with that because if you say those letters they sound like the word, so it still fits in the conversation format. Okay. So continue with your attitude I'm sure it will get you far..

hbm

[stegmakk]

Without games such as landon vs. yorktown (16-8) we would not have a good idea of how teams who normally wouldn't play each other match up. Do you think that the landon or the yorktown players didn't care about the game.
I didn't say the players don't care. As I said, of course the teams want to win, everyone wants to win all of the time...but the bottom line is it is not as important as the rest of the intersectional play that count towards the state championships.
Why would a coach risk overplaying a star player just for a win when he has two tough opponents in his own league next week. Why should a coach keep his 2nd and 3rd liners out of the game after traveling cross country. They will get PT when maybe if the goal was to flat out win, they would not have gotten PT. From a few HS coaches I know, they would still try to win, but not loose sleep over a lose either.
The only "reward" for playing out of your state right now is bragging rights on message boards like this :) Calculating "national rankings" means nothing really (right now)

I am not saying this is the RIGHT way...as I would love to see teams play other teams across the nation and have it mean something but the reality is that it just doesn't.

[Radioactive Ape]

um... i think cmm343ebh won this one.... but anywho

im glad to see darien ever higher... ct lax ######!

[isuckatlax]

Glad to see my teeam was on there. GO TROJANS! : )

[bm2589]

Typical unfounded argument.. so basically you believe US Lacrosse, STX, and Inside Lacrosse are just anti-48 states?! So I suppose since you believe that they actually are neglecting teams in other states and areas that could actually beat teams in Maryland or New York, that the teams from outside of those two states that are in the current poll are superhuman..? So the fact also, that most if not all of the collegiate D1 and D3 teams in the country as well as all of the participants in this poll are conspiring or intentionally discriminating against teams in all of the other states?! As a coach in one of those "Other" states, and a former player at all levels IN Maryland, I can tell you I have seen HS teams competing for the championships of other states as well as California..and they are nowhere near the talent, skill, and ability of the current teams from Maryland and New York you see ranked here. And that is not to imply that there aren't individuals that could fit in Maryland and/or New York, but it takes a team to win a game, not an individual, and as a whole, teams across the country are just lacking in overall talent. Most of the teams in other states couldn't even compete with my High School team 20 years ago, much less the teams of today who are probably at the level of some college teams of my era.. Its literally amazing the high school talent in Maryland and New York these days.. At this point, I think several teams in the top 10 could beat Princeton this season..or other lower ranked D1 teams.. I may be exaggerating a little. But their very good, they could at least compete.. Just keep practicing, get your friends together when your not at practice.. get a goal for your backyard.. You have to live with that stick in your hand whenever you walk out the door and even when your in the house, have that stick in your hand.. hbm

So, do you travel around to each state and watch the HS lacrosse games going on? Maybe you have seen the current MD and NY teams, but how have you seen ALL the other states?

Also, you say you have coached, and played at all levels. So you are clearly an adult, yet you come on here and try start arguments with kids.

[Ghslongpole14]

How have some teams not already played games? It must be the weather, because my team has already played 10, including 3 games in 3 days over spring break.

[GIattack]

^ up here in NY most teams are just starting this week

[bm2589]

Nothern Viking, doing the top three teams doesn't provide a good analysis. No one is disagreeing about the MD and NY, we all know how much talent they provide. But for example, don't you think its a coincidence that one of the top 3 teams is VA, and 14 players are from Virginia?

[MClothier]

yea it is way to early to ranking teams based on 1-7 games played thus far. many teams, as said earlier, havent even played a single game let alone 5+. also mind u that this is a coaches poll rather than a ranking based on stats and standings at the end of the year. ill stick to the laxpower rankings in june...

[GIattack]

its not really about how you do durring the season, its about how you finish it. if you have a 8-8 record, barely make the playoffs, but peek out at the end of the year and win states, thats all that matters

no ones going to rember the 8-8 season, just the state championship