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LaxRef
04-05-2005, 06:14 PM
As some of you know, I've been named the organizational chair for the Men's Division Officials Council (MDOC) Scholastic Officials Committee (SOC), which is part of USLacrosse. This committee will deal with high school lacrosse officiating issues in the United States.

Our two main tasks at this point are to draft by-laws (which appears to be simply a matter of adapting by-laws from the Youth Officials Committee) and to write a mission statement.

The mission statement is where we say "This is what this committee is supposed to be trying to do," although in pretty general terms. Thus, it won't state anything particular (e.g., "Establish that in two-man mechanics for NFHS lacrosse, the lead will . . . ."), but it might say things like "Work to establish uniform mechanics for American high school lacrosse."

So, I'd like some input from high school lacrosse officials about what you think the SOC should be trying to accomplish. What are your concerns as a high school official? What would you like to see improved, or changed, or standardized? General ideas are best at this point, but if all you can think of are specific things, tell me anyway; I can always lump them into categories when I write up the mission statement.

Thanks!

zebra618
04-06-2005, 06:02 PM
As an experienced official, but new to the sport of LAX, I would like to see a couple of things:

Develop consistant officiating at all levels of play.
Produce, refine formal training programs and standards to enable consistant officiating.

ploaref
04-06-2005, 07:16 PM
You guys know that my main thing is to start by finding out who and where we are. We should take a census and gather data about ALL the Lacrosse Officials Associations out there, and identify other groups of Zebras that perhaps are organized more loosely under their local US Lacrosse Chapter or other group. I think the path to consistency on the field is to make a list of all our groups so that we can more effectively distribute rules interpretations, training materials, opportunities to work around the country if travelling. Also, an effort to standardize (OOPS sorry ee), OK... at least make an attempt to catalogue the understand the various state association "arrangements" that exist out there. Who is using NCAA rules? Who uses NFHS "modified" and so forth.

i'd love to see an SOC rep in every LOA in the country...

LaxRef
04-06-2005, 07:52 PM
You guys know that my main thing is to start by finding out who and where we are. We should take a census and gather data about ALL the Lacrosse Officials Associations out there, and identify other groups of Zebras that perhaps are organized more loosely under their local US Lacrosse Chapter or other group..

It is my understanding that MDOC is trying to do such a census. They are relying on help from the district governors to get this information.

i'd love to see an SOC rep in every LOA in the country...

We'll certainly try for at least every chapter, which would already be about 50 representatives. Doing every LOA might not be practical; it might be hard to run a committee if we had 200 members, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

shrekjr
04-07-2005, 10:56 AM
I agree with everything everyone has said so far. I do believe consistency is our biggest problem, not only across the country, but within our LOA's. Honestly, it is no different than any other sport, but the advantage we have is that lacrosse is still small enough that our efforts can still reach the majority of the members fairly easily.

One thing I would like to see that I think would help with training is something football does and that is footage of actual games that have been dubbed over with explanations of fouls showing examples of what is and is not a foul. I think that would really help with the consistency issue.

ploaref
08-23-2005, 09:20 AM
Time to revive this effort. The fall would be the time, before training and preparation for the '06 season gets underway!

Woodenstick
08-23-2005, 11:09 AM
In addition to training, some other issues that the comittee might be concerned about are recruiting/retention and coordination between referee groups (across territory lines and levels of play).

3rdPersonPlural
08-23-2005, 11:40 AM
Obviously, working to assure that all officials know the rules and apply them consistently nationwide is the highest and best use of a national organization. However, as to a mission statement, clarifying that the officials primary obligation is to ensure a safe contest, his secondary obligation is to ensure a fair contest, and his tertiary obligation is to ensure a fun contest gives officials the leeway to 'tune' their calls and interpret the rulebook (such as is possible) in response to the absolute and comparitive skill levels of the participants.

Although this philosophical notion apparently runs contrary to the obvious benefit of consistent officiating, we must recognize that, particularly in developing regions, there are times when a nod and a wink here and an inordinately firm hand there better conforms to the 'safe, fair, fun' matrix than an absolute adherence to the same rules that, say, MIAA teams play under.

3rdPersonPlural
08-23-2005, 11:47 AM
You know, a really arduous written test, or, better yet, an online test incorporating video footage (thanks, Shrek) would go a long way toward ensuring prepared refs.

Also, I recently took the HS soccer ref's test, and they require not just the correct answer, but the chapter, article, and section where the correct answer is found. This approach forces a test taker to read (or at least open and study a portion of) the rulebook 100 times and that's proved to be a great teaching model.

eme
08-23-2005, 12:31 PM
Don't know if this falls under the SOC's purview, but we desperately need a National Rules Interpreter for the Federation rules. We have one for the NCAA rules. This is someone who can take a rules question for Federation play, talk it over with whomever he chooses (I assume it will be a male), then come back within a day or two
and give/coomunicate an answer to all groups of officials using NFHS rules.

Snake~eyes
08-23-2005, 01:21 PM
Well I had my whole thing typed up then it froze up, maybe I'll try again later. I hate when that happens.

Lacrosse Ref LA
08-23-2005, 02:23 PM
First, I would like an improved and much more in depth casebook for interpetations of all the rules. The examples in the second half of the rulebook fall far short of what a first or second year official needs to be well informed. Sort of like a Lax Forums but in an organized and by rule examples. Also I would like to see something about sportsmanship and player, coach, and spectator conduct integrated in someway. Like every sport we need to fight this ever increasing bad conduct in every way possible. Also this will help with retention of new officials, many of which leave due to coach or fan abuse.

ploaref
08-23-2005, 02:27 PM
The NFHS test is poised to be posted at the USL website this coming spring. Well, OK, not EXACTLY the same NFHS test thats sent to the States, (they won't consent to share it) but MDOC is looking to create a reasonably similar test and get it posted. This may end up being very helpful to local LOA's, provided USL can get a process in place to get out info on who is taking the test and how they are doing on it. Our effort at taking a census of LOA's (lacrosse officials associations) is really crucial to the effectiveness of this initiative.

If you have a minute, drop me some contact info for the LOA YOU belong to at MDOCTraining@aol.com

THANKS!

eme
08-23-2005, 04:56 PM
another thought:

Strive to place the SOC Chairman on the Federation Rules Committee or at the very least, to serve as an advisor at the annual Federation rules meeting held each June.

LaxRef
08-23-2005, 06:17 PM
At this point, we're trying to wrap up the bylaws, the writing of which has been a little more problematic than I was expecting. I agree that we should try to have a meeting at the convention in January.

gfink
08-23-2005, 08:30 PM
I would like to see US lacrosse become the governing body for Lacrosse acrosse the US. From the registering of coaches and players, to the training and certifying of officials and officials instructors. No small task to say the least. A small page from the USA hockey program.

laxref39
08-24-2005, 08:03 AM
I agree with everything everyone has said so far. I do believe consistency is our biggest problem, not only across the country, but within our LOA's. Honestly, it is no different than any other sport, but the advantage we have is that lacrosse is still small enough that our efforts can still reach the majority of the members fairly easily.

One thing I would like to see that I think would help with training is something football does and that is footage of actual games that have been dubbed over with explanations of fouls showing examples of what is and is not a foul. I think that would really help with the consistency issue.

The whole consistency thing while spot on is also difficult in some ways. There is always a tape at the college meeting (perhaps there should be a US Lacrosse High School meeting at the convention) to show some does and don'ts and all associations should purchase the tape to show ALL members, not just the new guys!
My beef with consistency is how tight one game is called vs another game when it comes to a slash or uncontrolled stick. Sometimes coaches have a problem with the call because the skill level of teamA/player A is so much better than teamB/playerB. There are times when officiating a game you know that one kids one handed slash is an excellent check from another kid.
It's to tough to bring the consistency together unless you call everything!
I applaud the whole committee concept! :clap: :clap: :clap:

ploaref
08-24-2005, 08:48 AM
I would like to see US lacrosse become the governing body for Lacrosse acrosse the US. From the registering of coaches and players, to the training and certifying of officials and officials instructors. No small task to say the least. A small page from the USA hockey program.

US Lacrosse clearly IS the NGB for all lacrosse. The issue is, old-line programs, especially in the traditional eastern areas, do things their own way and have been doing so forever. What arguement can USL make that will convince constituencies in these areas to come in and join? This applies to coaches, players AND officials too...

For zebras, i feel that once we get a solid list of ALL our officials groups, we can begin to examine how they operate - do they require USL membership? What materials (if any) do they use to train new and existing members? What types of continuing education do they do? How do they receive and disseminate POE's? Is lacrosse a recognized sport under their state hs sports association? ETC., ETC.

MDOC Board meeting is October 22nd in St. Louis. There is a desire to put the vote to adopt the SOC Charter and ByLaws on the agenda for that meeting...

gfink
08-24-2005, 03:58 PM
US Lacrosse is not currently the NGB of lax in the US. Although i belive this council is the step in the direction of doing so. USA Hockey certifies all of the coaches and officials in its programs. It also trains the instructors who in turn perform the training. The purpose this serves is to put everyone on the same page as far as how they want the game to be played. Not a perfect system, but a good model to look at. Currently we have teams playing youth lax under either federation or ncaa rules as they seee fit. Not an ideal situation for officials or coaches. I would love to see the rulebook and mechanics manuals be developed nationally by US Lax. Just a few thoughts to chew on.

LaxRef
08-24-2005, 04:51 PM
US Lacrosse is not currently the NGB of lax in the US. Although i belive this council is the step in the direction of doing so. USA Hockey certifies all of the coaches and officials in its programs. It also trains the instructors who in turn perform the training. The purpose this serves is to put everyone on the same page as far as how they want the game to be played. Not a perfect system, but a good model to look at. Currently we have teams playing youth lax under either federation or ncaa rules as they seee fit. Not an ideal situation for officials or coaches. I would love to see the rulebook and mechanics manuals be developed nationally by US Lax. Just a few thoughts to chew on.

From the USLacrosse website:

US Lacrosse was founded on January 1, 1998, as the national governing body of men's and women's lacrosse.

Now, while it's true that not everyone involved in lacrosse goes through USLacrosse, I'm not sure how that is different than, say, basketball, where some people are members of USA Basketball but most people who play are not. However, I think when it comes to international, world-championship-level competion, you'd better be on board with the NGB or you'll probably be stayig at home.

OTOH, if by NGB you mean an organization that is "in charge" of the sport and can dictate rules and who does what, when, where, and how, then US Lacrosse doesn't meet that standard, nor does USA basketball or most of the other NGBs in the country. For example, does anyone believe that USA Basketball has any real say in NFHS or NCAA rules changes?