View Full Version : Air Gait Legal In Highschool??
Warrior
04-09-2005, 04:47 PM
Just wondering if the Air Gait is legal in highschool lacrosse...I'm not sure whether the rule about jumping the crease applies here because at my last game a kid jumped from the side of the crease and they counted it...if i were to jump from the back of the crease, and do an air gait wouild it be counted, and is there anything i cant do, like can my stick hit the goal post, or is it illegal if i land before the ball hits the net or something along those lines???
Thanks for you're help :thinking:
AZReDWiNG
04-09-2005, 04:50 PM
From what I understand, if you score in midair and land in the crease afterwards, you're fine. When you jump, you are considered to be where you were before you jumped.
Snake~eyes
04-09-2005, 05:01 PM
We have talked about this before, please look into using the search function.
Here is the debate: http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=4364
BigTony
04-09-2005, 05:22 PM
From what I understand, if you score in midair and land in the crease afterwards, you're fine. When you jump, you are considered to be where you were before you jumped.
You are exactly wrong.
LaxRef
04-09-2005, 05:54 PM
From what I understand, if you score in midair and land in the crease afterwards, you're fine. When you jump, you are considered to be where you were before you jumped.
Uh uh. If you're running and step in the crease after the ball enters the goal, the goal is good. But if you jump or dive through the airspace of the crease and land in the crease, the goal is disallowed even if the ball enters the goal before you touch the ground. See:
If an offensive player deliberately leaves his feet by diving or jumping and his own momentum carries him into the crease, and his shot goes into the goal, the goal is disallowed.
The same rule is in the NCAA, as are a number of A.R.s.
LaxRef
04-09-2005, 05:58 PM
When you jump, you are considered to be where you were before you jumped.
Actually, this language is in the NCAA rules. However, it refers to the state of the airborne player, and there are exceptions. For example, an airborne player jumping from inside the attack area is not considered to be in the attack area for the purposes of stopping a 10-count. And, of course, there's specific wording about jumpiing or diving into the crease.
However, a player that jumps from outside the crease, catches the ball, and lands in the crease has illegally re-entered the crease in NCAA (but not in NFHS), because the airborne player is ruled to have possession outside the crease and then entered the crease.
Snake~eyes
04-09-2005, 10:04 PM
Uh uh. If you're running and step in the crease after the ball enters the goal, the goal is good. But if you jump or dive through the airspace of the crease and land in the crease, the goal is disallowed even if the ball enters the goal before you touch the ground.
I don't agree with this interp., if you check out the link above I make my case. :crazy:
LaxRef
04-10-2005, 07:26 AM
I don't agree with this interp., if you check out the link above I make my case. :crazy:
I looked through that thread and I'm not sure where you think we disagree. I agree that you can dive across the cylinder if you don't touch the grond inside the crease. Am I missing something else?
Snake~eyes
04-10-2005, 12:54 PM
I looked through that thread and I'm not sure where you think we disagree. I agree that you can dive across the cylinder if you don't touch the grond inside the crease. Am I missing something else?
I'm still not convinced you can't jump across the goal and step in the crease. For example A1 jumps across the goal, ball goes in the goal, he then steps with one foot on the crease. A1 had potential to land outside but he failed to do so, you are you going to scrub the goal? I just think the rules are not very clear on this situation.
If he jumps/deliberately leaves his feet/dives....then nothing good can happen to him if any part of him hits the crease on the way down. Crease violation and no goal.
Snake~eyes
04-10-2005, 04:06 PM
If he jumps/deliberately leaves his feet/dives....then nothing good can happen to him if any part of him hits the crease on the way down. Crease violation and no goal.
NFHS 4.20 Situation D
A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land outside the crease and (a) ball goes into the goal or (b) goalie contacts A1. RULING: In (a), goal counts. In (b), no goal, award ball to the defense.
exactly...if he jumped thru the air space...he'd better keep flying all the way thru and land outside the crease...because if he touches down like the rest of us mere mortals without capes it's a crease violation/no goal
LaxRef
04-10-2005, 04:19 PM
NFHS 4.20 Situation D
A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land outside the crease and (a) ball goes into the goal or (b) goalie contacts A1. RULING: In (a), goal counts. In (b), no goal, award ball to the defense.
AFAICT, the only reason they start talking about the "potential" to land outside the crease is that certain things can happen to such a player that chenge the legality of the leap. One is any contact with the goalie. Another is a check by the defense.
But if he jumps and there's no contact, there's no need to judge "potential," since you have a more objective measure: he either lands in the crease or he doesn't. I'd hate to be the guy trying to tell the coach, "But coach, he cold have landed outside the crease. He just didn't do it. But, I mean, if a strong enough gust of wind came through or a powerful magnet turned on, that might have been enough to make the difference, so he did have the potential to do so."
Snake~eyes
04-10-2005, 04:25 PM
AFAICT, the only reason they start talking about the "potential" to land outside the crease is that certain things can happen to such a player that chenge the legality of the leap. One is any contact with the goalie. Another is a check by the defense.
But if he jumps and there's no contact, there's no need to judge "potential," since you have a more objective measure: he either lands in the crease or he doesn't. I'd hate to be the guy trying to tell the coach, "But coach, he cold have landed outside the crease. He just didn't do it. But, I mean, if a strong enough gust of wind came through or a powerful magnet turned on, that might have been enough to make the difference, so he did have the potential to do so."
I agree with you but that is not exactly clear. Personally I think the rule should be written how I explained it. But, again I don't think it is clearly written.
LaxRef
04-10-2005, 04:35 PM
I agree with you but that is not exactly clear. Personally I think the rule should be written how I explained it. But, again I don't think it is clearly written.
And how often do I argue that the rules are clear as written? :thinking:
You're right, it's not perfectly clear, but it's no 7.6, either.
Snake~eyes
04-10-2005, 05:25 PM
And how often do I argue that the rules are clear as written? :thinking:
You're right, it's not perfectly clear, but it's no 7.6, either.
I agree, but it wouldn't be very hard to clear these things up.
NickBritt
04-14-2005, 06:23 PM
Ok so what here...
A1 dives from outside the crease into it and can or does make it outside the crease. While he was in mid air he got the ball in the net then after the ball went in while still in mid air the goalie makes contact with A1... whats the ruling?
michaeldwilson
04-14-2005, 06:35 PM
Ok so what here...
A1 dives from outside the crease into it and can or does make it outside the crease. While he was in mid air he got the ball in the net then after the ball went in while still in mid air the goalie makes contact with A1... whats the ruling?
Was it a legal or illegal hit by the goalie?
Did he fall in the crease or outside the crease?
m.
IRGILSDORF
04-14-2005, 09:28 PM
so basically, if you shoot outside the crease, and then score, but stop inside the crease, its no goal. if you dive, throw the ball, and make it, its a goal and no penalty right?
3rdPersonPlural
04-18-2005, 12:39 PM
Say the attackman fails and the ball winds up loose for a moment in the crease, the keeper scoops it up and starts looking for a clear.
Is the proper call 'loose ball crease violation'?
3rdPersonPlural
04-18-2005, 12:42 PM
I should add that the attacker lands in the crease.....
Snake~eyes
04-18-2005, 12:59 PM
Well you wouldn't have anything in the scenario you described, the play-on is over once the goalie has posession of the ball.
3rdPersonPlural
04-18-2005, 01:08 PM
Well you wouldn't have anything in the scenario you described, the play-on is over once the goalie has posession of the ball.
There's the human element, Snake. As off official I had responsibility for calling that crease violation, but as a newish official still failing now and then to 'not watch the ball', I was momentarily transfixed and by the time I registered that the attacker was scrambling out of the crease, the keeper had the ball.
I called a 30 second crease violation because the play on opportunity had come and gone, but I wonder if the proper call sequence would be play on, then play on over when the goalie scooped, then crease violation (or what?).
All of this assuming one's eyes were where they should be....
Snake~eyes
04-18-2005, 01:17 PM
Okay, let me get this straight.
Ball is loose
A1 steps in the crease
B1(goalie) scoops it up
A1 still in the crease, gets out.
If thats the case then all you have is a play-on. Unless the goalie had the ball outside of the crease. The only time you can have a flag on a crease violation is when the defense has posession of the ball outside of the crease.
3rdPersonPlural
04-18-2005, 01:25 PM
Okay, let me get this straight.
Ball is loose
A1 steps in the crease
B1(goalie) scoops it up
A1 still in the crease, gets out.
If thats the case then all you have is a play-on. Unless the goalie had the ball outside of the crease. The only time you can have a flag on a crease violation is when the defense has posession of the ball outside of the crease.
See? I didn't know that. Thanks!