Play on Question for the Goalie

[michaeldwilson]

Goalie B1 scoops the ball in his crease and A1 attack strikes his stick, causing interference. Play on is called. The Goalie sends an outlet pass toward the middle of the field that is not caught and is picked up by Team A.

Do you stop play and give the ball to team B?

Thanks,

Mike

[OutBurst]

Why would play on be called after blatant interference?

[Snake~eyes]

Why would play on be called after blatant interference?
What do you propose should be called?

[pboyd]

Kill play - award ball to team B across the midline

[michaeldwilson]

My question is whether you give the ball to the keeper's team B after he misses on a deep outlet pass to the midline or further. It's clear that you do if he doesn't complete the outlet to a nearby middie or d-man. But far down the field?

6.2 Situation I: While the goalkeeper is in the crease and is in possession of the ball, A1 interferes with the goalkeeper. RULING: Play on. If goalkeeper fails to run the ball out of the crease or successfully completes an outlet pass and [then?] the ball is awarded to Team B at the center line.

If the outlet pass is to the midline or, as we say, a "Gillman," a lob to the other end of the field, and the pass is not caught, then do we award the ball to team B at the center line.

In other words, if the attack team interferes with the goalie, does he get the equivalent of a "free play" in football where the quarterback throws down the field knowing there's no downside?

Thanks,

Mike

[OutBurst]

If there is interference, the whistle should be blown immediately. Of course the ref could be a little slow with getting the whistle. As long as the ref notices the interference and intends to call it, the goalie should continue to play on until there is a whistle blown.

This is a stupid question if you ask me though...

[laxref39]

It is a play on! If you kill the play you prevent a possible break for the offended team. If the player on the offended team drops the ball off the pass award it at midfield!

[CoachRob]

6.2 Situation I: While the goalkeeper is in the crease and is in possession of the ball, A1 interferes with the goalkeeper. RULING: Play on. If goalkeeper fails to run the ball out of the crease or successfully complete an outlet pass [the] ball is awarded to Team B [at the center line].

It's a clear play on. If he fails to complete the pass or does not run it out of the crease, it's a free clear to center X. If he completes a pass, even if it's only 3 stinkin' feet outside the crease, play on is now off.

What's the issue here?

[shrekjr]

NCAA- A "completed pass" as discussed here on a goalie clear doesn't necessarily have to be caught for the play to continue and the play on to be over. If the ball bounces toward one of the goalie's teammates who cleanly picks up the ball, the play on ends and you let the play continue.

[CoachRob]

This is the difference between the SW and play on situation with regard to passes. If it hits the ground and is fielded cleanly (one bounce at most), most refs will allow it in a play on w/o blowing the whistle so long as the advantage is maintained. However, even if fielded cleanly, it ends a SW situation as hitting the ground is one of the events that ends a SW.

[LaxRef]

If there is interference, the whistle should be blown immediately

You're way off here. Goalie interference is a play on, whether with or without possession (well, unless the possession is outside the crease by another player, in which case it's a flag down).

If the ball is loose, the play on continues until the offended team gains possession or until a few seconds pass, whichever comes first (if the offending team gains possession, then the whistle is blown immediately).

If the GK has possession, then the play-on continues until the goalie runs or passes the ball out of the crease or until something else kills the play. If he passes it out and it's completed, the play on ends (even, in NCAA, if it's on one bounce). If he runs it out, the play on ends. If he passes it and it's incomplete, or if the 4-count expires, award a free clear.

But under no circumstances should you blow the whistle immediately.

BTW, the real question here is "If the goalie is interfered with and he throws a pass 80 yards downfield, and the pass is incomplete, do you award the ball where it was (or outside the box), or do you bring the ball back out to midfield (free clear position)." I guess I don't really know the answer, since the rules don't say, but I'm inclined to think when they say "free clear" they mean "If it's in zone 1 or 2, free clear; otherwise, where the ball was or 20 yards laterally from the goal."

[CoachRob]

I don't think it's where the ball LANDS. I think it's simply a matter of if the GK fails to run or pass it out, it's awarded at center X. Otherwise, the GK would just toss it as far as possible each time, and gain extra yardage. So, at center X for a clear.

Plus, the foul occurred in the defensive end (the crease), not where the ball failed to be caught (in the offensive end). So why would you even consider awarding it deep in zone 3?

[tjslax]

Wether you were right or wrong I would have given you 1-3 min for "screaming in my face". I'd like to think I would have gotten the call right or my partner would have corrected me. Either way screaming at the official is USC at best.

[CoachRob]

tfor some reason, almost every time i've had this happen, the ref has gotten the call wrong in some way. i actually had somebody tomahawk my stick while i was in the crease, pick it up, and score and the ref who signaled the goal didn't call it off until i started screaming in his face.

If you scream in my face, or of any official, you risk getting a USC. While you're riding the pine, you put your team at a severe disadvantage.

We cannot control what other people do Xeclipse, only our RESPONSE to what others do. And your response, IMHO, is over the top.

Screaming in ANYBODY'S face is never acceptable, unless you are threatened with physical violence. And even then, it's best to walk away. (Just a word of advice; I'm certainly not your father.)

Scream in LaxRef's or Snake-eyes face, and I shudder to think of what THEY will assess. They'll probably have you on the bench for a 3-minute NR USC, and also cleaning up the orange peels both teams had as snacks at halftime.

[laxref39]

I don't think it's where the ball LANDS. I think it's simply a matter of if the GK fails to run or pass it out, it's awarded at center X. Otherwise, the GK would just toss it as far as possible each time, and gain extra yardage. So, at center X for a clear.

Plus, the foul occurred in the defensive end (the crease), not where the ball failed to be caught (in the offensive end). So why would you even consider awarding it deep in zone 3?
Goalie interference with the keeper in possesion allows for a clear to midfield(better than flag down technical), goalie interferance no possesion ball goes to the wing!

[laxref39]

the wording says "completes an outlet pass". if the interference with the goalie's stick is so great that the goalie cannot gather himself to throw an accurate outlet pass, the free clear is awarded.

there should be no confusion about the placement of the ball on a free clear because it spells it out. "at the center line" is where the ball goes.

for some reason, almost every time i've had this happen, the ref has gotten the call wrong in some way. i actually had somebody tomahawk my stick while i was in the crease, pick it up, and score and the ref who signaled the goal didn't call it off until i started screaming in his face.
I don't know how old you are and if you moved to PA from Michigan, but there are experienced and inexperienced as well as good and bad officials everywhere(by the way that goes for coaches and players) but the statement "almost every time" I find hard to believe! And if you're coming out screaming in my face, the only call you will get comes with a seat in the box!!!

[tjslax]

But I bet you have a good view from that seat! I bet it even comes with free personal training sessions (My rule when I coached HS any penalty for speaking to the ref came with a free 25 mile run...no lacrosse until it's done.)

[laxref39]

Guess the next seat was on the bench! Which brings up another point that players need to understand! The player /official relationship is on a totally different plain than the coach/official relationship.

[CoachRob]

Originally Posted by CoachRob

I don't think it's where the ball LANDS. I think it's simply a matter of if the GK fails to run or pass it out, it's awarded at center X. Otherwise, the GK would just toss it as far as possible each time, and gain extra yardage. So, at center X for a clear.

Plus, the foul occurred in the defensive end (the crease), not where the ball failed to be caught (in the offensive end). So why would you even consider awarding it deep in zone 3?
===========
Goalie interference with the keeper in possesion allows for a clear to midfield (better than flag down technical), goalie interferance no possesion ball goes to the wing!

Was I saying somehting different than this 39? If he fails to complete the pass, then he MUST have had possession, so it is awarded at center X. What was wrong with what I said?

[LaxRef]

Interesting note here:

If, in the case of the crease violation, the goalkeeper, who has possession of the ball, continues to play on, the whistle shall not be blown. No penalty is called if the offended team maintains possession of the ball (i.e., goalkeeper’s outlet pass is completed or the goalkeeper elects to run the ball out of the crease). If the goalkeeper, in possession of the ball, does not play on, the whistle is blown; and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the center line, no penalty to be served.

It does not say that if the goalie throws an outlet pass which is incomplete then a free clear is awarded, only if the goalie doesn't play on (letting the 4-count expire). This may be addressed elsewhere in the rules, but I couldn't find it just now with a cursory look.

Of course, this all refers to crease violations with posession in the crease, not interference, but you'd hope the rules track the same. Of course, I hope for world peace, too, and I never seem to get that. :chuckle:

[laxref39]

Was I saying somehting different than this 39? If he fails to complete the pass, then he MUST have had possession, so it is awarded at center X. What was wrong with what I said?
Not at all, just clarification for everyone! Some don't think it should even be a free clear!

[CoachRob]

Gotcha. I just wanted to be sure.

To further clarify, if the GK does NOT have possession, is interfered with, and fails to gain possession (which would end the interference play-on since there was no advantage gained by the interference), the ball moves lateral to the box for the restart.

If the GK DOES have possession and fails to complete an outlet pass or fails to run it out of the crease, the ball moves to center X. If he DOES complete a pass, or runs it out of the crease, either of these acts ends the interference play-on since there was no advantage gained by the interference.

Oh, here's a quiz:

GK B1 is going for a loose ball scoop inside the crease, and his stick is struck by player A1 reaching for the ball. The GK continues trying to scoop the ball and inadvertently knocks it into his own goal. Oops!! Ruling?

[LaxRef]

GK B1 is going for a loose ball scoop inside the crease, and his stick is struck by player A1 reaching for the ball. The GK continues trying to scoop the ball and inadvertently knocks it into his own goal. Oops!! Ruling?

Play on for the goalie interference. When the ball goes into the goal, the play-on ends. No goal, ball awarded to team B outside the attack area.

BTW, did you see my last post in this thread? What do you think?

[CoachRob]

Play on for the goalie interference. When the ball goes into the goal, the play-on ends. No goal, ball awarded to team B outside the attack area.

BTW, did you see my last post in this thread? What do you think?

I know YOU knew the answer!! It was designed for players, of course. :guns:

I agree that there is some missing verbiage. First off, 7-11 should start:

If, in the case of the crease violation OR GK INTERFERENCE...

Section 6.2 covers most of the topic, but at times seems to disconnect GI from CVs. I don't know why it does that.

But I think most officials know and do treat CV and GI the same with regard to the play on rule.

I also don't know what they mean by the GK, in possession of the ball, does not play on.... Does that mean he sits down and sulks? Stands there and stares at the ref? Because if all our GK w/possession needs to do is stand still after a CV or GI and not do anything, and we get a free clear, then that's what I'm telling him to do. Why risk a 10-yard outlet pass that, if caught, will end a play on but may be end up as a turnover in our defensive zone?

[LaxRef]

I also don't know what they mean by the GK, in possession of the ball, does not play on.... Does that mean he sits down and sulks? Stands there and stares at the ref? Because if all our GK w/possession needs to do is stand still after a CV or GI and not do anything, and we get a free clear, then that's what I'm telling him to do. Why risk a 10-yard outlet pass that, if caught, will end a play on but may be end up as a turnover in our defensive zone?

I'm fairly certain they mean "he let's the 4-count (or 10-count, if that will end first) expire." I can't think of any other possible meaning.

[eme]

Now, Coach Rob, you should be thinking and coaching positively when your goalie is interfered with with possession. OF COURSE, he's going to complete that outlet pass on a rope....

[CoachRob]

The only "rope" involved in our GK's outlet pass is the one I want to use to strangle him. His passes are, well, I won't describe it here in mixed company.

[OutBurst]

Yup, I was wrong. Thanks for the clarification though!