are zebras always out to get the defensemen?

[bulldog24]

yo everyone,
any defenseman out there, who are the physical, vocal leaders of the defense. i am and for some reason the refs are always out to get me. every check i have my hands together, knock the hell outa people, and then usually find myself pacing angrily in the penalty box.
is it just me? does it happen to u guys too?

:guns: :guns: :guns:

[LiquidMercury16]

it happens but usually don't care so long as I get a good hit and the other guy is on the ground

[Longest]

yo everyone,
any defenseman out there, who are the physical, vocal leaders of the defense. i am and for some reason the refs are always out to get me. every check i have my hands together, knock the hell outa people, and then usually find myself pacing angrily in the penalty box.


I'll go out on a limb and guess that you are doing something illegal which you are unable to detect while doing it, thus your penalty time. I have worked with a great number of officials, some good, some not good, but none were ever out to "get" someone.

Dan

[SDS416]

And I can tell you from personal experience that many don't care for the term "zebra"...and they like the term even less when used in a sentence like "I didn't know zebras were blind like bats". Trust me on that one.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Aaaah, Bulldog, if your chosen moniker is a reflection of your playing style, I can understand why you feel that officials are alarmed by your game.

First, keep in mind that we live in a litigeous society and Officials are charged with the safety of 10 testoserone fueled teenagers that are armed with clubs and permitted to play rough.

Second, keep in mind that, according to my unofficial and statistically irrelevant poll taken on this very forum, most officials were either d-men themselves of goalies. This means that they're on your side, just alert to the stupidities that vexed their own playing careers.

Third, this ain't football. There is no unnecessary roughness salute in football. There is in lacrosse which is why you can play with minimal padding if you want.

Assuming you're a footballer as well as a laxer, this is the difference: Your football coach teaches you to 'finish' a hit. You aren't done until the guy you're hitting is down. Just bunting him away from the ball is never enough. Your lacrosse coach is completely satisfied if the guy you engaged is staggered and looses engagement with either the ball or the play. The 'zebra' expects you to bang into a guy (say on a loose ball) just hard enough to knock him out of the play but not so hard that you drive yourself out of relevance. If you 'bump' a guy who's trying to pick up the ball, stay on your feet and snag the ground ball yourself, you can punt him to the moon for all we'll care, but if you're pasteing him on his back with your facemask in his numbers 10 feet from the ball, we'll call that 'football on a lacrosse field' and call you for what (in our hearts) is misunderstanding of the game.

Capiche?

[GCHSLax04]

First, keep in mind that we live in a litigeous society and Officials are charged with the safety of 10 testoserone fueled teenagers that are armed with clubs and permitted to play rough.
LOL!
If your a leader on the field as you like to call yourself you should try to spend less time in the box. I'm our defensive leader (sans goalie) and I've yet to have a penalty minute year long.

[3rdPersonPlural]

LOL!
If your a leader on the field as you like to call yourself you should try to spend less time in the box. I'm our defensive leader (sans goalie) and I've yet to have a penalty minute year long.

Good point, #4. I officiated a game this weekend where one team was a first year club loaded with football players and a few sharpshooting attackmen. The other one was a second year club with better balance but less athleticism.

The second year club won, and I overheard their coach after the game cheering "I TOLD you that if you kept your heads we'd win with EMO goals! We won 7-6, without EMO we would have lost 6-1. Let 'em draw those flags all day!"

So while Bulldog sits in the box grousing that the refs just don't appreciate a well finished hit, #4 is standing at the midfield line cheering as his team scores yet another man up goal.

I LOVE this game.

[dislaxxic]

Flag down 3rd - to the box they go, the 3rd persons...we likes their posts of many colors and with all their eriudite insights and wandering metaphors. We likes the humors and the sly asides, as well...but alas, too many mispellings are they...on the one hand "testoserone"; on the other "looses" and they can't keep themselves up with the wit and we gets confused. Those of us zebras that were longtime attackmen, who took our occasional liberties with the swinging stick, will certainly allow the well placed stroke but have a care about lumping all the zebras together in their defensive haze. They likes the humor you bring and they keep it with us...speak for yourselves and we all stays in this together...mibix kefrudie or s'podey o'dy?

[3rdPersonPlural]

Flag down 3rd - alas, too many mispellings are they...on the one hand "testoserone"; on the other "looses" and they can't keep themselves up with the wit and we gets confused.

My editor is on vacation. I cannot spell or capitalize properly and I am given to the wandering metaphor. This I grant. If you want something suitable for framing I'll submit my thoughts to my attorney and y'all will doze off before we get to the topic at hand.

Those of us zebras that were longtime attackmen, who took our occasional liberties with the swinging stick, will certainly allow the well placed stroke but have a care about lumping all the zebras together in their defensive haze.

Refer to my conclusive poll of a dozen eminent officials. We all of us (except for some of us) were kept behind the midfield line so we could learn the art of officiating by yelling at the refs who missed foul play on our attackers. I have yet to call a ward.......hmmmmmm......

They likes the humor you bring and they keep it with us...speak for yourselves and we all stays in this together...mibix kefrudie or s'podey o'dy?

I took four years of Latin I and know enough French to order a steak medium rare. 'Lava las ropas' is the extent of my Spanish. Your somewhat Celtic quote has me at a loss.

What does "mibix kefrudie or s'podey o'dy?" mean?

This is a FUN forum!

[CoachRob]

BullDog,
Most penalties are called for hits of a questionable nature in my experience: illegal cross checks, slashes, UR, and illegal body checks. Who does the most hitting in games? D-men. So, you do the math...

When you write "every check i have my hands together, knock the hell outa people", it indicates that you have more of an interest in laying the "hit" than playing the ball, which is likely to draw the attention of the "zebras".

I coach defense, and it is a maxim of mine that you only need to move the attacker's stick head six inches to interfere with his catch, and merely need to disrupt his lower hand 3 inches in order to mess up his pass/shot. We are 7-1, have averaged 3 goals against us per game, and have fewer than three defensive penalties per game on average. Our defenders have learned that to be effective, they don't need to be the "baddest dog on the block", just the sharpest tool in the shed. And our success speaks volumes.

So, might I suggest working on good technique, which includes poke, slap, dig, and kayak checks, among others? Laying out an attacker is not a major part of the repertoire. Not that I'm against a good, clean hit, but if it's your FAVORITE tool, perhaps you need a new toolbox?

And no, I'm not a ref, although I'm certified to ref and will do so next season when my coaching duties are complete.

[3rdPersonPlural]

There are two times that a bad-*** d-man get's to flex his hitting instinct, IMO. When a guy tries to bring the ball to (or catch the ball) within 5 yards or so of the cage face, and when the ball is loose. Close to the cage with a high margin shot imminent and a feed unlikely, knocking the attacker over before he can shoot is a neanderthal response but the best one under emergency circumstances.

On a loose ball, a well placed shoulder or hip check is usually all that's needed to open up a clear scoop and (most important) exit strategy. A big tough guy focussed on securing the ball and launching a clear is a much bigger asset to his team than a big tough guy focussed on mayhem. One gets the ball down to the attack. The other...well....doesn't.

One pet peeve:

BullDog,
When you write "every check i have my hands together, knock the hell outa people", it indicates that you have more of an interest in laying the "hit" than playing the ball, which is likely to draw the attention of the "zebras".

As my kid says, 'No, duh!' On top of that, I learned to hit with my deltoid on the opponent's chest and my stick tucked up against my ribs. Watching these neo-laxers gallop into a scrum with their stick held out in front of them like a bumper on an old Ford is dismaying. You can't play lacrosse when holding your stick like that. You've conceded any chance of playing the ball when you slide your hands together. It's to lacrosse what the *****-slap is to prizefighting.

A good defenseman will pick up the ball while shouldering an opponent out of the way and flick the ball to an open middie without breaking stride and this will not happen with your fists pressed together.

::End of Rant::

[shrekjr]

yo everyone,
any defenseman out there, who are the physical, vocal leaders of the defense. i am and for some reason the refs are always out to get me. every check i have my hands together, knock the hell outa people, and then usually find myself pacing angrily in the penalty box.
is it just me? does it happen to u guys too?

:guns: :guns: :guns:
According to the memo :read: we received at our last referee meeting, the list of people we are supposed to target is as follows.....
1- IRS Agents
2- Lawyers
3- Bankers
4- Coaches
5- Defensemen
6- Bulldogs

Anyone that is a combination of any of those six automatically becomes the top priority. :lol:

[CoachRob]

According to the memo :read: we received at our last referee meeting, the list of people we are supposed to target is as follows.....
1- IRS Agents
2- Lawyers
3- Bankers
4- Coaches
5- Defensemen
6- Bulldogs

Anyone that is a combination of any of those six automatically becomes the top priority. :lol:

Shrek, I'm a lowly coach and I VISIT the bank occasionally. Am I a target???

[shrekjr]

Shrek, I'm a lowly coach and I VISIT the bank occasionally. Am I a target???
As a coach, absolutely. But since you are actually one of the few coaches that not only have read the rule book, but even understand it, you are granted some leniency. :grin:

[LaxRef]

As a coach, absolutely. But since you are actually one of the few coaches that not only have read the rule book, but even understand it, you are granted some leniency. :grin:

He's more than just read it, so let's give him a LOT of leniency.

[CoachRob]

He's more than just read it, so let's give him a LOT of leniency.

Thank you grand master. Why don't you move to PA so you can join our official's chapter?

[Snake~eyes]

You pay for my rent or living quarters and its a deal... Or is the invite only for LaxRef?

[PimpD-LaxRider]

yo everyone,
any defenseman out there, who are the physical, vocal leaders of the defense. i am and for some reason the refs are always out to get me. every check i have my hands together, knock the hell outa people, and then usually find myself pacing angrily in the penalty box.
is it just me? does it happen to u guys too?

^ so true...whats with that??? :guns:

[CoachRob]

Only for LaxRef, since he was paid me a compliment. But for you Snake, and what you recently emailed me, I have a spare room in my home set aside.

[Lax-Umpire]

I know a lawer that works for the IRS with Bankers. In his spare time he coaches the defensemen for the local Amherst Bulldogs. Is HE in trouble!!

[laxref39]

^ so true...whats with that??? :guns:
"bulldog24 & pimpd-laxrider"
You guys sound like you're in gangs not on lacrosse teams. You may want to focus on the fundamentalls of playing defense not "knocking the hell outa the guy with the ball". Sounds like you make yourselves targets for the refs. Don't tell me, you guys wear big baggy shorts hanging off your but down to your knees.
ps. I thought lawyers were #1 on the list! :read:

[WHEELAX2]

In all the games I have ever played, I don't think I have seen more than 3 really big hits in a single game. Sure body checking is part of the game, but lining someone up who has the ball and knocking him down at every chance is not good lacrosse. I have played with future D1 stars in high school and professional players in my post collegiate time, and here too, I have rarely seen these players who are exceptionally gifted, (both physically and talent-wise) line someone up and try to crush them every time they had a chance. It's simply a low percentage move. AND NOT GOOD LACROSSE. (and don't think refs can't tell when you are playing overly aggressive: they're just waiting for you to do something stupid like body check the whole team whenever you can)
If you want to be even mildly successful at this game, you'd better realize that 99% of good lacrosse players won't let you line them up at all, and if you do, I'm sure that their meatstick is going to line you up, and take you out cleanly.

Just think of this: how many times in their entire careers has Casey, Mark, A.J., or Tim been lined up? I would say: not many, they are simply too good for that.

[LaxRef]

In all the games I have ever played, I don't think I have seen more than 3 really big hits in a single game. Sure body checking is part of the game, but lining someone up who has the ball and knocking him down at every chance is not good lacrosse.

I definitely agree that--in good lacrosse games--you won't see a lot of big hits. What some of us are concerned with is that in bad lacrosse games, these kids that are out there just to hit people as hard as they can are going to hurt someone, which is why we call the UR penalties when the hits rise to the level of "excessively violent."

Around here, we have some very good, established high school programs by midwest standards, and we also have some new teams with a bunch of football and hockey players looking to drill people in the spring instead of the fall or winter. These games can get really ugly if you don't keep them under control.

[Snake~eyes]

Only for LaxRef, since he was paid me a compliment. But for you Snake, and what you recently emailed me, I have a spare room in my home set aside.
Packing up my stuff now, hope your family doesn't mind the rule debates at the dinner table. :grin:

[WHEELAX2]

This issue is so border line. As a ref you just have to protect the players; you have to allow body checking, but if there are guys simply body checking because they "can" whenever they have the opportunity, they should be warned, flagged, or kicked out for repeated excessive violence..
Doesn't this call for either unnecessary roughness or even unsportsmanlike behavior. I mean a true sportsman would go for the ball and try to "play lacrosse" instead of playing a hitting game.
There's no question that people should body up during a ground ball, but you can't line someone up and charge at them from half-way across the field all the time, even though it's technically legal.
I can see one of these hits occasionally, but not all the time, and certainly not as a standard way of playing. Shame on the football-minded coach who wants to hurt other players to make up for his lack of lacrosse knowledge/lack of lax talent in his players. If these coaches spent more time working on the fundamentals of lacrosse, I'll bet their teams would be more successful, and they could build a quality program.
Isn't it funny that those "scrub" teams who just go out to hit and hurt always seem to have a horrible record?

[laxref39]

This issue is so border line. As a ref you just have to protect the players; you have to allow body checking, but if there are guys simply body checking because they "can" whenever they have the opportunity, they should be warned, flagged, or kicked out for repeated excessive violence..
Doesn't this call for either unnecessary roughness or even unsportsmanlike behavior. I mean a true sportsman would go for the ball and try to "play lacrosse" instead of playing a hitting game.
There's no question that people should body up during a ground ball, but you can't line someone up and charge at them from half-way across the field all the time, even though it's technically legal.
I can see one of these hits occasionally, but not all the time, and certainly not as a standard way of playing. Shame on the football-minded coach who wants to hurt other players to make up for his lack of lacrosse knowledge/lack of lax talent in his players. If these coaches spent more time working on the fundamentals of lacrosse, I'll bet their teams would be more successful, and they could build a quality program.
Isn't it funny that those "scrub" teams who just go out to hit and hurt always seem to have a horrible record?
Actually, you can't take a run at a guy from 1/2 way across the field, no official should allow a player to be lined up like that!!!!!!!!!

[WHEELAX2]

obviously an overstatement

[michaeldwilson]

Hyperbole.

[LaxRef]

Hyperbole.

Nice job finding a single word that, with punctuation, got you to the 10-character minimum!

My favorite quote using that word:

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I can say without hyperbole that this is a million times worse than all of them put together."

[michaeldwilson]

Nice job finding a single word that, with punctuation, got you to the 10-character minimum!

My favorite quote using that word:

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I can say without hyperbole that this is a million times worse than all of them put together."

Let me guess: A Barry Manilow concert?

[3rdPersonPlural]

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I can say without hyperbole that this is a million times worse than all of them put together."

He must have been referring to trying to spend quality time with my ex during PMS and after her second glass of Merlot.....

[PimpD-LaxRider]

"bulldog24 & pimpd-laxrider"
You guys sound like you're in gangs not on lacrosse teams. You may want to focus on the fundamentalls of playing defense not "knocking the hell outa the guy with the ball". Sounds like you make yourselves targets for the refs. Don't tell me, you guys wear big baggy shorts hanging off your but down to your knees.
ps. I thought lawyers were #1 on the list! :read:

lol...sorry about that...im not in a gang but for some reason there after me I don’t know maybe it’s just my bad luck... :guns: