"This isn't football."

[Monkey grass]

Hey guys. Well my school's inaugurial season of lax has ended recently. While this was my first year playing, I have been around the sport for sometime. I know there is a fine line between Lacrosse and Football. Lacrosse has some finesse to it. My team was hmm pretty agressive. We went out and hit people, but it was legal. In one of our games though, I heard from the other team and their parents repeatedly after big hits "This isn't football." This kind of distrubed me. This game is all about finesse but big hits I think are just a big a part. While I think its a big part, alot of the teams we played really weren't about hitting. These two examples kind of give me the impression that the game is becoming soft. Maybe its just my area, but do any of you feel like this sometimes? I know I won't stop playing hard, thats why we have pads. I don't know it kind of disturbed me...whatd you guys think?

[TheKOB]

You're goal should be to win games. Hits are a part of the game. If there's some advantage to 'em, then use 'em. It's a contact sport, and they're allowed by the rules. You don't want to go out of the way to look for a big hit, because that just makes you a goon. If it works to your team's advantage, than go for it. I'd rather coach a team that hit too much than hit too little.

[RockStar]

....You don't want to go out of the way to look for a big hit, because that just makes you a goon......

I sort of disagree.

A few well placed big hits early in a game can make your opponent nervous about charging in after a loose ball.....those nerves can become a huge advantage later in the game.

I believe in hitting hard and finishing your hits whenever you have a chance. Certainly do your best not to give up defensive position, but giving up an early shot on goal is not the end of the world particularly if you land a big hit.

Other things to intimidate opponents:

-If you catch someone without proper arm-guards, bruise 'em!
Ditto for the guys too brave to play with rib guards.

-If you catch someone running with their head down, use the opportunity to put them on their arse!

[TheKOB]

There was a team I helped out with who went for the big hit instead of going for the ball to the detriment of their team's chances of winning. It made them seem like goons who were only there to get big hits like in football. I'm all for hitting every chance you get IF it helps out your team. Going for the man instead of the ball on one v ones doesn't help your team out, and usually the other team ends up with the ball if their next guy is closest.

[RHS attackmen]

seeing is how you're in columbia, that team wouldn't happen to be white knoll would it?

[liveforlax19]

lacrosse isnt about hitting people... its part of the game, but whoever said it is right, its not football... we have our definition of lacrosse, and it isnt trucking eachother

i love an occasional hit here and there, but not every time someone gets the ball

i think the game is fine the way it is, people keep saying its changing, or needs to change... i love the game and i hope it doesnt go through any disruptive changes

[mstrylaxdad]

It it gets too rough - or more football like - schools will demand more protection for the players. More hitting will mean more injuries - and in our society that could mean lawsuits. The reaction will be to add more protection. Shoulder pads will become larger, legs covered, etc. Perhaps the same padding as football. When that happens the skill and speed that makes LAX so great to watch will diminsh. Sort of like professional hockey?!

[Monkey grass]

I think that I have a happy median. I go for the ball everytime it hits the ground. If there is a guy there before me and has his head down that is when I usually hit them. Also I love when someone has the ball and is coming in waiting for me to play them one way or another so they can make a move. I just move back slowly as they come in close and then I will hit them off their path. I know some of my teammates def were just there to hit, but this wasn't the case. Every hit, that someone hit the ground they complained. Even if it was in a scrum for the ball. I think they were in the wrong.

[ahslax18]

Hey guys. Well my school's inaugurial season of lax has ended recently. While this was my first year playing...

:lol:

I'm guessing your team prolly didn't have many stick skill and the only way your team could compete was to hit and hit some more...

I love playing teams like this because you can run up the score and watch the other team do the only thing they can do, which is hit.

[LAXative]

i never really tthought about that but i guess our team had a pretty good balance although our goalie was a senior and sometimes he'd step out to check people thank god we have such good defense though. it gets annoying though when they just hit and its uneccesary (sp?) and they lose because of their skills. Howvere i think in no way that the sport is getting soft or atleast not in my area

[Monkey grass]

:lol:

I'm guessing your team prolly didn't have many stick skill and the only way your team could compete was to hit and hit some more...

I love playing teams like this because you can run up the score and watch the other team do the only thing they can do, which is hit.

Not necessarily. I mean during our first few games while we were getting the feel of actual game I would say this. But the people that planned and cordinated (sp?) our boys/girls lacrosse programs were on task. We had mini-camps throughout the winter with Devon from Good To Go Lacrosse also the coach of Mt. Lebanon (Pa.) if im not mistaken. So we had more stick skills than a normal new team would. Still didn't have great stick skills but we are getting there.

[LymanLax28]

I'd much rather be on a team that goes for the ball rather than the hit. Goals help you win a game, hits don't. Laying a guy out isn't going to help if his teammate is running down the field with the ball. For me, lacrosse is all about finesse and speed. The guys with better skills should be glorified, not the guys who just hit... they have football.

[laxdevil666]

lacrosse allows hitting for a reason, if it was viewed differently then it wouldnt be allowed. and someone said above that hitting should be used to make the other team think twice before they go for that ground ball or try to come around the cage with the ball or looking for a feed.

[Lockbox911]

I dont know if i agree. Our defense literally destroys anyone who drives on us. it makes people afraid to drive, even afraid to get the ball. So hitting is a huge advantage for our team. I

[livin4lax09]

I think a time to lay a guy out is to get the ball away from him. I don't like people who just go out there to kill people and could care less about turnovers. It's unsportsmanlike in my mind.

[Longpole5435]

Hitting is a must. Yeah there is finesse to lacrosse, but being physical is equally important. One of the most important things needed to win a game is GB's and you can't get them without playing physical. Also, I think the call of "tOO MUCH FORCE" aka htting a guy who is smaller than you hard, is BS. I'm all for finesse, but lose that rule please

[ahslax18]

Hitting is a must. Yeah there is finesse to lacrosse, but being physical is equally important. One of the most important things needed to win a game is GB's and you can't get them without playing physical. Also, I think the call of "tOO MUCH FORCE" aka htting a guy who is smaller than you hard, is BS. I'm all for finesse, but lose that rule please

I agree with hitting, and unfortunately in most cases, the little kid will drw the penalty cause he's a shrimp....but when a team starts to believe that hitting is more important than goals (aka usually new teams), then its not called for.

[LCNlaxman]

Truthfully, it's because our generation has become either really overweigh or too darn skinny.

On my team, not including our two big defenseman, our biggest guy is MAYBE 155. Im 135 myself.

[Monkey grass]

Yea I'm like 6'3'' 180 and I'm midfield lol. I'm slow but I have a great outside shot, the best stick skills on my team, and I'm the most aggressive (to our teams advantage) on defense. So I'm forced to play both ways. I am always getting called for hitting to high or too rough cause my hits look more lethal because I'm so much bigger than the people I hit normally....it sucks.

[calhi34]

My teams starting D all played football so they were naturally aggressive. THis was good sometimes when they layed somebody out and it got us all pumped up, but it also sucked when they went for the big hit and missed, and the other team got a one on one with the goalie.

[waxon]

I have no problem with a player calling man, if and only if there is a teammate behind him calling ball.

[TheKOB]

seeing is how you're in columbia, that team wouldn't happen to be white knoll would it?

Why no...of course not.

Yeah....

They have a good coach now that can devote time to them. If they keep improving in their stick skills, they'll be pretty good. Their d needs to spread it out more, and they need a goalie...not just a guy with a goalie stick. If they get a goalie who can stop outside shots, they'll be looking pretty good. When I saw them play this year, their zone (and agressive hits) didn't let many guys inside, although they did get a few calls for interference I think.

[geggieman]

being on the smaller end of the lax food chain (5' 8", 135 lbs.) i'm usually the one who ends up on his butt for not running fast enough. teams in tex hit hard, but i think its a great aspect of the game. it teaches you to pass the ball faster or to look up more

[lyonslax98]

it's important to be able to play both ways. as a defenseman, i'm known for some huge hits but i'm also the first pole the goalies look to when clearing. i will sometimes realize 5 minutes into a game that it will be a finesse game that day, and other times i know i need to play physical. i'm sure if you asked a coach, he would want a blend of physical players and finesse players...if you can be both of these, you're a coach's dream i guess.

[LaxAttack2]

if hits go down i wouldn't consider it lacrosse going soft, lacrosse is just naturally a fair mix of finesse and physichality(sp), like a good middie could run up the center make a sweet split then come back down and lay a bone crushing hit on the other end, lacrosse gives the players an oppurtunity at creativity and the decision to play how they play, this can be good or bad, most players recognize each type of player and know how to counter that certain type of player

[Longpole5435]

yeah, i agree with LaxAttack. The whole finesse to physical part of the game is what makes it unique. I am a longpole middie and you go from flattening a guy on a slide one second to picking up the ball, running, dodging and passing the next. A combo of finesse and physical play is the ideal combo. Otherwise the other team will play to your weakness

[Monkey grass]

Yeah I know this. Thats what I meant by knowing why lacrosse is different than football. What I meant about it going soft is just how as soon as some people get knocked to the ground, then parents and players are complaining about the physicality. Thats all I meant by that.

[I wana Lax you!]

Lacrosse is a sport all about finesse, personally I think hitting is a very small part of the game, when you watch D1 do you see guys laying each other out. No, as the level of play increases the need for hitting becomes less. In a way I find hitting keeps lacrosse really truely flourishing in the west, too many football players play. We should try to keep the game what it is and not let it become hockey. Even though, nothing is better than pushing a guy over for a ground ball or someone laying someone out on a slide.

[RHS attackmen]

Why no...of course not.

Yeah....

They have a good coach now that can devote time to them. If they keep improving in their stick skills, they'll be pretty good. Their d needs to spread it out more, and they need a goalie...not just a guy with a goalie stick. If they get a goalie who can stop outside shots, they'll be looking pretty good. When I saw them play this year, their zone (and agressive hits) didn't let many guys inside, although they did get a few calls for interference I think.

yea we played them at the beginning of our season. all they seemed to wanna do was knock the crap out of people, not even really play the game. the goalie they had in game it was his first game, so he wasn't too good. i think the end score was 13-0. i think if they just get out of the football mentality they could be a pretty good team.

[HCrum05]

I think that a good player has to know when to go for the ball and when to go for the big hit. I myself have alternated between finesse and being physical. In one of our games an opposing attackman had broken off of his man and was winding up for the shot and I had to slide and check his stick. He lost the ball and we got the turnover and scored on it. Then, later in the game, my man was about to catch a pass in front of the crease and I just had to lay him out. In both cases we got the turnover. If you know what you're capable of and what you aren't capable of, then it'll be a lot easier to know when to be physical and when to just go for the ball.

[Mr. Big]

Lacrosse is not football. Period. It's a game of finess and contact. When parents see great finess plays, do they yell "this ain't gymnastics"? Probably not. Contact is important and necessary. Being a "goon" might make it easier for the finess men to get position. Fear of having your mouthpiece knocked out may cause just enough hesitation to give your team (the hitters) an advantage. If it's legal and not some cheap shot, it is part of the game just as the fancy behind the back passes or the no-look passes. folks that can't accept this should watch non contact sports.

[livin4lax09]

When would a legal hit not be good? I mean, if you hit somebody it is usually to try and cause a turnover, help a teammate or yourself get a lose ball, or prevent the other team from retaining the ball and get a scoring chance or something along those lines. I can only think of one situation where hitting somebody would not be benifial. That would be if there was a lose ball, and you ran past/near the ball to hit the player instead of getting the ball. Think about it.

Player A has the ball, player B hits him preventing him from shooting/passing/running past you. Seems smart

Ball loose, player B hits player A, player B2 gets ball. Smart again

Ball loose, player B hits player A, gets ball. Good again.

Ball passed to player A, player B hits player A who drops/doesn't catch pass. Good again.

In only the situation I described to start with would a LEGAL hit not be a good thing. Hitting is never a bad thing if it is legal. Not only can it help you at that moment, but it will psychologically as well. If you lay a kid out who has his head down going for a ball/pass, chances are, next time he will be hesitant to go the same again, and even if you aren't there to hit him, he may miss the pass or slow up looking for a gb.

yeah i agree hitting is good if its beneficial, I'm talking about the kids who just go out there with the intent to injure that's unsportsmanlike. They don't care about the ball or who has it, they just look to take out every kid they can.

[ethslax12]

on my team we love big hits. in the midwest its a lot more physical so big hits are a lot more. if we get a big hit then the whole team is happy. we always have at least one a game

[decker87]

Our team isnt huge on hits, but we are a decent team for how long we've been playing. Theres two guys I can think of that are all about hitting...one, Ben, is a really good player but hitting isn't why. The other guy, Trevor, just headhunts and he kinda sucks. Ben led with his head once for a huge hit, the other guy did a complete backflip in mid air. However Ben got a neck injury...he got up and started walking off the field, then just fell and his arms started twitching. Pretty dumb move, I'd say. Anyway I love it when trevor D's me up, he just tries to hit me and I just step aside, ive prolly scored on him more than anyone else.

[waxon]

See thats what I look down on. People who are on the field for the sole purpose of hitting. Especially if your purposly trying to injure somebody i.e. hitting someone helmet first.

[Jmaxlax66]

Go for the ball not the hit. We dont need any over agressive heroes who have more penaltie minutes than goals.

[CHSLAX_Doherty]

ive played lacrosse and football both for a few years... theres a difference between tackling (football hits) and checking (lacrosse hits)

[Monkey grass]

I think you all are kind of missing my point. I'm didn't make this thread to ask an opinon on a situation what I should do. Or to compare this sport to football. The whole point of the thread was that I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this. That when someone gets knocked to the ground, in a perfectly legal way, that people begin to complain about the physicality. I am in no way implying I'm a goon or anything like that lol. I just noticed that and in my opinion if parents and players are going to jump on someone for getting a big hit which is perfectly legal than in my eyes thats a sign of the sport becoming soft. What I mean by soft is just parents and players don't want to see any physical contact at all. If this happens, I feel a vital part, but not all of the sport, is lost. A big hit can turn the momentum, start a fast break, or stop one. Hitting is very vital to the game even if its a finesse game. Thats just my opinion though. Btw this thread is old...it can be closed if you want lol.

[SDPirate]

wait...this isnt football?

[decker87]

I just noticed that and in my opinion if parents and players are going to jump on someone for getting a big hit which is perfectly legal than in my eyes thats a sign of the sport becoming soft. What I mean by soft is just parents and players don't want to see any physical contact at all.

Well, I think that's a pretty big conclusion to jump to. Pretty much everyone who has replied has supported what (we think) the parents are saying...that just headhunting is bad. I don't think you can rightfully assume that the parents don't want to see any contact at all. Around here, the parents actually encourage unneccessary hits.

[Spoon's]

I dont know bout you all, but i think the writer of this thread is right. I knoticed last year in JV, people would never go for the ball and it was like a hitting frenzy all game every game. but now that i am in Varsity, one getting a big hit off without getting burned is extreamly hard. and two, it realy doesnt do much. I mean i love hitting, in hockey thats all i can do. but whats so awsome about hitting is that it sets a mood for the game, and the games will get alot more intense, therefore getting a bigger crowd. but i have realized that now there are about mabe 3 or 4 actual hits in a lacrosse game, and every game seems to get less and less intense, and i keep getting less and less in the lacrosse mood. It is kind of getting on my nerves though because lacrosse is supposed to be in the top physical contact sports in the world, but in my eyes its not anymore. Because of all the ruels about hitting, and how whenever you do see a good hit all the audiance yells that it was illeagle, even if it wasnt.

I gues what im trying to say is that i love the way the sport is played, but the fact that big hits are becoming a HUGE deal is making the sport seem like a sisy sport.

And yes big hits are realy all i like to do in lacrosse, and good positioning. But i am not going to go play football because i only weigh 155 and would get picked up and set aside every play.

[TheKOB]

Well, I think that's a pretty big conclusion to jump to. Pretty much everyone who has replied has supported what (we think) the parents are saying...that just headhunting is bad. I don't think you can rightfully assume that the parents don't want to see any contact at all. Around here, the parents actually encourage unneccessary hits.

I wouldn't say it's the game getting soft, I'd say it's just the parents in the stands are fans of the other team, the hitee.

Also, you play to win. If a hit doesn't help you do that (or hurts your chances) then there's no reason to. Granted, there is the psychological advantage, but if you go for the hit in an open field and the other team ends up with the ball, you're hurting your team. There's a big difference between that and the "whoever takes a shot on our goal ends up on the ground" philosophy.

[deprizio]

i completely agree with monkey grass's original comment--it was kinda disturbin' to hear that........i'm tired of all this super safety baloney of the 90's & 00's. whatever parent said that is just bias.

this a BOYS HIGHSCHOOL SPORT. not girls. not little leagues. not arts & crafts.

whatever happened to the good ol' days of bein a boy & gettin dirty & not worryin about bein hurt?

[Monkey grass]

A well placed hit is vital to the game of lacrosse. Key word there being "well placed". People that try to play football with sticks ruin the game in two ways. First of all, they hurt any chances of your team winning against a decent team, and B) they make the game unsafe and unorganized.

Little story for you- This year we were having some trouble with midfield depth. So they brought up a sophmore that is average size and good build but just really physical (football player). I really didnt have any complaints with him, minus the fact that he was a complete burden on offense, but it wasnt making me lose any sleep at night. Well, gametime comes, and when our coach makes the genious decision to start him, what does he do? Game starts, they take the faceoff, and their offense settles. One of their middies up top has the ball, and he goes at him at a full sprint with his shoulder lowered trying to take the guy out. Textbook face dodge, nobody can slide in time, and a quick goal.


This is the perfect example of goonism. I hate that, and I hate when my team does it. It takes us out of position and it creates easy goals. The only time I really like to hit is on scrums for ground balls, and when I know I won't miss the hit. But this story still misses my point. Some teams we played didn't want to be physical AT ALL. I mean they didn't even want to body up for position on ground balls, rather just rake it away and try to pick it up. I found that these teams parents as soon as someone got knocked to the ground just once began complaining like that was cheap and illegal. I just I don't know I guess its hard to explain and you'd have to be there.

[FearTheCrease]

yeah our team has heard that a few times, but usually we start hearing the crying when we're up 8 goals or somethin like that. we know it's pretty much sour grapes...whenever there is a questionable hit in a close game, people will complain about a no-call rather than the style of play.

[dpolehh21]

Hitting is part of the game, thats just the way it is. However no one can respect a hit first d and that strategy will get your team wrecked in games.

[Conrice]

while hitting is a part of the game, i think the only times that it is effective are ground balls and knockin ppl out of bounds....when ppl try to line up a hit on me, and i run straight around them, they look like idiots and i have never gotten nervous from hits (played travel hockey for 11 yrs). when are these kids gonna understand that if you go all out, and play your hardest, you will get knocked down...but you'll never get hurt (least thats what i tell myself)
i also want to say that we had a varsity football player on our team this year. he was made a fool a lot of times because he couldnt line up hits....i think it was because of the fact that in football you can use your arms to grab a hold of kids, and you cant in lax. he played d and really cost us a few goals this season because of his "football mind". im not going to knock players that also play football, but there is a difference.
on the other hand, look at some of the best lax players, they were football players...so it goes both ways....
about the parents....all parents will worry about their kids safety...ALWAYS, tell me when you have kids and you see your kid get hurt, tell me you wont get pissed, cuz you will...

[deprizio]

replying to conrice........about the parents--that's true that they worry about kids safety but think about it, they're wearing significant pads....if they're so worried about they're kid getting hurt then they shouldn't let them play. also, tell me a parent isn't going to have a bias about their kids' sport. and you have to agree that there is an epidemic going around these days about super safety that's kind of over the top.

[Monkey grass]

replying to conrice........about the parents--that's true that they worry about kids safety but think about it, they're wearing significant pads....if they're so worried about they're kid getting hurt then they shouldn't let them play. also, tell me a parent isn't going to have a bias about their kids' sport. and you have to agree that there is an epidemic going around these days about super safety that's kind of over the top.


EXACTLY my point. These soccer type moms that growing up didn't want their kids playing football because of a fear of being hurt. This is what I mean. These parents that are so worried about a contact sport. If your that worried why let the kid play? It seems to be the motto of the 90s and early 2000s. You cant ever be too safe. Bleh go cry me a river hahah.

[bradman54321]

its ok to hit big as long as it is legal. some one on my team took a HUGE illegal shot 2 the jaw and broke it. so its fine as long its legal. thats part of the game

[deprizio]

:thumbsup: definetely........monkeygrass u know what i'm talkin about

[Gee-Unit17]

Lacrosse is just football with weapons haven't you heard?

[RockStar]

......about the parents....all parents will worry about their kids safety...ALWAYS, tell me when you have kids and you see your kid get hurt, tell me you wont get pissed, cuz you will...

As a future parent, all I'd want to see is that my child is properly equipped with good and well fitting protective equipment.

I'd also want to see the refs calling the cheap stuff

-Hits from behind,
-high cross checks,
-two hand slashes with a big wind-up,
-etc.

Take care of those two aspects, and you will eliminate almost all of the potential for serious injury. (Canadian box lacrosse actually has extremely low injury rates in terms of injuries per person-hour of play. Field might be a little higher because of the big open-field body hits, which just don't happen as often in box.)

Beyond that, whatever happens, happens......your kid could get hit by a bus on the way to school, why worry about a little bumping and slapping on a lacrosse field?

[audax]

Hello Eastern Guilford. I'm looking at you.

[RandomRunner]

Hey RHSattackmen, whats your name? I played middie for Mann this year....and yeah you guys kicked our arse twice, but hey haha. Yeah I remember playing White Knoll, one of the few teams we beat and yeah they were all about the hits. I recall at least one of their defense guys was a goon, kept screwing with our best attack guy while the ref wasn't watching.

[wickedlaxer4]

I love Hitting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and know im not just hitting and not lookin for the ball afterwards. But you have to put some fear into the other team. I had alotta goals this season and was one of are biggest hitters. So im not just a newbie who dusnt know how to cradle the ball.

[laxin]

i have seen alo of kids who are just out there for the hitting bu i think hitting is part of thr game