Warrior Monopoly

[giantredlobster]

Do you feel like Warrior is trying to take over lacrosse?

To me it seems like they are trying to get everything. With the whole MLL thing, to even sponsoring small youth tournies. I'm just waiting for them to kidnap Mikey Powell.

[WHEELAX2]

If you look at their market share stats, I don't think you'll see a trend toward a monopoly.

[liveforlax19]

they should just start calling the MLL... Warrior League Lacrosse, thats pretty much what it is...

i understand that pump loads of money into it, BUT, if brine and stx and gait were able to be a part of the MLL, warrior wouldnt just be the one throwing dough at it... i personally think the game would expand a lot faster if they would let other companies into the league... the players would be comfortable, and would enjoy it a lot more... i guess

do u get what im trying to say?

[stegmakk]

they should just start calling the MLL... Warrior League Lacrosse, thats pretty much what it is...
i understand that pump loads of money into it, BUT, if brine and stx and gait were able to be a part of the MLL, warrior wouldnt just be the one throwing dough at it... i personally think the game would expand a lot faster if they would let other companies into the league... the players would be comfortable, and would enjoy it a lot more... i guess
do u get what im trying to say?
I hear what you are saying...from a fan player standpoint this makes sense...from a business one I am not sure...in different industries there are different guidelines...in mine exclusivity = higher premium...
What this means is if I want to be the ONLY and EXCLUSIVE vendor or sponsor etc...I have to go above and beyond...
For example, If I am selling beer to Costco...and I want to be the only brand in there...Not only will I have to give them a far better price than any other competitor but also incentives (for every million they buy from me, I will give them 20k back)...so if the league let other equipment sponsors in there is a chance they would fold quickly

[creaseattack]

warrior is owned by new balance you have to understand that they have alot of financial backing to do this and steg is correct warrior is trying to get its product out just like all of the other companies look at brine with their R&D team they advertise through them. It is all about a profit. The MLL will grow larger with warrior because they will have better backing and money to throw into it.

[creaseattack]

Do you feel like Warrior is trying to take over lacrosse?

To me it seems like they are trying to get everything. With the whole MLL thing, to even sponsoring small youth tournies. I'm just waiting for them to kidnap Mikey Powell.

dont hate just play the game of lax if some kids like warrior then so be it I dont care about the marketing schemes if it works for them fine, but all I really want is a decent product.

P.S. what company isnt trying to corner their sales market, this is what drives corporate america.

[swordsman]

I hear what you are saying...from a fan player standpoint this makes sense...from a business one I am not sure...in different industries there are different guidelines...in mine exclusivity = higher premium...
What this means is if I want to be the ONLY and EXCLUSIVE vendor or sponsor etc...I have to go above and beyond...
For example, If I am selling beer to Costco...and I want to be the only brand in there...Not only will I have to give them a far better price than any other competitor but also incentives (for every million they buy from me, I will give them 20k back)...so if the league let other equipment sponsors in there is a chance they would fold quickly
This' true now but when MLL is big and strong like it will be soon enough it can dump warrior. sort of like a bottle you dump it when you don't need it to be your sole sustainer and can eat/drink other things. I think...

[Lax101]

they should just start calling the MLL... Warrior League Lacrosse, thats pretty much what it is...

i understand that pump loads of money into it, BUT, if brine and stx and gait were able to be a part of the MLL, warrior wouldnt just be the one throwing dough at it... i personally think the game would expand a lot faster if they would let other companies into the league... the players would be comfortable, and would enjoy it a lot more... i guess

do u get what im trying to say?
Gear is gear. It's all the same these days, and its high quality gear. People like you are over exaggerating players opinions of gear. At my camp Mike Battista came to show off the new 2005 brine gear. When asked if he minds at all that he can't use his beloved brine gear, he just said "It's the wizard, not the wand. Sure i'd like to use some brine gear, but I'm happy just to be playing in the MLL".

You've said in several threads that it Warrior being the exclusive supplier of the MLL is hurting the growth of the game, yet you still have not given any reasons why. Because players don't feel comfortable? Give me a break. it's not like they're using L25's and an M1, here. And how does a player's comfort of gear affect the growth of the game? Even all of you warrior haters I'm sure would go to an MLL game. I haven't heard of any college players who have refused to go to the MLL that were drafted (Mikey claims he was burnt out, which I'll believe.) You need to understand that lacrosse gear doesn't affect the game's growth. Warrior is huge in helping the game grow. Believe it or not, that cheesey marketing does attract some fans. And I believe they sponsor Colorado/Denver/some Midwest college in Colorado. So they're helping the game expand.

I am fascinated and I get into a lot of different gear. I critique it all, and can probably name any head currently being produced right now, if you just gave me a view of its sidewall design. However, even I know that gear isn't a big deal in a players performance. Mikey will be just as good of a player using a finalizer or razer, as he is using his swerve. Tim Byrnes of the Boston Cannons uses an Odyssey. Nope, not an Evo Pro, not a Finalizer, not even a plain evo. An Odyssey.

And yes, STX/Brine/Gait would probably put cash into the league if they could, but guess what-Warrior did it first. First come, first serve.

Monopolizing the game?!?! Thats a load of crap. You're all being predujice (sp) about Warrior because you hate their marketing campaign/direction. The heart of the lacrosse fanbase today is still the college game, where Brine and STX DOMINATE. Warrior only sponsors a few teams there. Brine/STX have the college game, and Warrior has the pro's. In terms of marketing/business power, the college game is much stronger.

Finally, the MLL (I believe) has a contract or something with Warrior to be their official supplier, so when that contract runs out, we'll see. I strongly doubt Warrior is dumb enough to let go of the MLL, but if they do, the MLL will be just fine if STX/Gait/Brine/Hell, even Shamrock takes over. But warrior is doing a fine job now, so I doubt the MLL would even dare let go of them.

[nclax35]

they sponser every camp around ohio and they have so many ads and stuff like that in magazines there like the nike of lacrosse and brine is like the adidas

[ahslax18]

I don't mind warrior equipment, but I do that those dumb adds in magazines when they are on the beach and that whole image...seems kinda fruity to me.

[liveforlax19]

ok, so you havent heard of any college players going into the MLL? i kno i have... and i am sure there are plenty i havent heard about... maybe there are some players who refuse to play because they feel the same way us "warrior haters" do

dont say that i would take the chance to play there if i could, because i refuse to play if im not comfortable, it helps me play better... in my personaly oppinion, brine is whats comfortable....

to me, it makes damn more sense that the game would grow with the help of other companies... more cheesey ads, commercials and what not...

i dont like warrior, not because of their crappy marketing strategies... but because of their crappy equiptment... i recieved a pair of mac daddys from adam werder, and the seems began to tear right out of the box, ive had them 6 months, used them about 4 times, and there are already holes in them... im supposed to like that?

i just think the game would grow a lot faster if warrior didnt think that theyre so friggin awesome... it just makes more sense to me that all 4 big names contributing, would bring in more money, and more people...

[tlaing22]

The one thing that everyone needs to realize is that that Warrior is holding a monopoly no matter what. Acoording to Encyclopedia Online Main Entry:

monopoly- the exclusive possession of a market by a supplier of a product or a service for which there is no substitute. In this situation, the supplier is able to determine the price of his product without fear of competition from other sources of his or substitute products. It is generally assumed that he will choose a price that maximizes profits.


Look at the lawsuit against the makers of Microsoft Windows. It basically said that Windows was something that other manufacturers couldnt break into the market against because of it's strong pull.

Heres the difference between Warrior and Microsoft.

Warrior has three other companies making comparable items. (STX, Brine and Debeer) While there is no other operating system for computers that is comparable. Apple has something quasi comparable but not as user friendly from what I've heard. (Im not a computer guy).

Warrior's hold on the MLL is a monopoly whether or not they got there first. Microsoft got to it's market first and the United States Government brought about charges of Monopolization. Sooner or later this will change, and it's not a matter of who hates warrior or who likes them, it's about controlling a game that we all care about and we all would like to see get bigger and better.

[Lax101]

Find me a name of one college player who was MLL drafted and refused to play because of Warrior Gear.

And if you just admitted you have a predujice against warrior gear. Tough luck with your mac daddies. I have superfreaks for nearly a year now and there's no damages to them besides small cosmetic ones. And my friend owns supercrosses that are literally falling apart at the seams. And I've broken two cybers, and I won't go near any Ignite Series shaft because of their horrible history of durability. And let's not even get started about the weakness of the sidewalls in swerves. But I won't hold a grudge against brine. If brine sponsored the MLL and helped grow the game as much as Warrior did, I'd give them respect too. Hell, I give them respect for helping sponsor some of the biggest college programs in the country.

And if you say you refuse to play in the MLL if you had a chance, then fine, you are completely obsessed with gear. Ask any player, pro or high schooler, and they will say that gear doesn't affect a players performance. Gary Gait dominated in the late 80's using gear that's considered "ancient" nowadays, and if he used the same gear today, he would still be the player he is. Wake up and realize gear doesn't make a player great. I'm guessing you must be one of those kids who tries to improve his game by getting the nicest gear possible then, right? Since you said gear makes you play better.

Growing the game by helping other companies? If you forgot, Warrior is just over 10 years old as a company. Brine and STX are 30-40 years old. This is a cut throat business, like any others. Did you see how STX and Brine fought eachother in court? The MLL and a few youth leagues are the ONLY thing Warrior has right now. STX and Brine dominate the college and high school game. If STX/Brine/Gait controlled the MLL, they wouldn't share it with any other companies. But of course you have a personal vendetta with Warrior, so of course you're just going to think of them as lower and crappier than other companies. Face it-no company, if this was basketball, baseball, football, etc. would let other companies co-sponsor their premier sporting league. It's simply impossible, and is never going to happen, so don't put the blame on warrior, put the blame on general marketing/business sense. But I guess if Brine was doing the exact same, you wouldn't cry about them preventing the game from growing, since you think Brine Gear is the best. But since it's warrior, they suck so its their fault, right?

You're just another Warrior-hater who's warped the entire lacrosse world with your over-the-top prejudice of Warrior. Like someone said, Warrior sponsors a lot of Ohio Lacrosse Camps. They are helping the game grow a lot. They're helping it grow out west. And if all 4 companies contributed, they wouldnt all contribute as much as warrior would. Most likely, companies would each contribute 1/4 as much as Warrior does now, since they each have 1/4 of the power. And plus, in other pro leagues I don't see multiple companies providing contributions to their leagues. Reebok is the official supplier of the NFL. I don't see Nike helping out the NFL, too.

And getting back to monopolies-its normal in the sporting world. Like I just said, Reebok of the official sole supplier of the NFL. Are they being accused of a monopoly? No. The NFL just chose them to be their official supplier, over Nike and others. The NFL is a billion dollar industry, and I don't see people accusing Reebok of holding a monopoly. And in the MLB, i don't see Rawlings or whoever is the official supplier of the MLB becoming a "monopoly". Its the case in everything. For example, Coke is the official drink supplier for McDonalds, etc. That's not a monopoly. In ALL business/commercialization, you have one company boasting to be the "official supplier of _____ to _____"

Warrior think's they're friggin awesome? Quit making accusations. They are the youngest of the 4 major lacrosse companies. Every person on TLF is older than warrior (or at least I hope). I bet you warrior would like to have the tons of premier lacrosse college teams sponsored right now, rather than having the MLL. The MLL is barely staying afloat. Teams just made a profit for the first time in its history.

[stegmakk]

it just makes more sense to me that all 4 big names contributing, would bring in more money, and more people...
That is the only thing holding MLL back now...
Right now it wouldn't...Right now they need gauranteed cash...
If I had 4 ad spaces available, and each company took one, maybe I could get $75 a pop ($300 total)plus possability some would say now they didnt want to take the risk...
Now warrior comes in amd agrees to cover my opportunity costs...so give me $350...I am making more than selling to 4 companies PLUS I am gauranteed the $$
I agree with the comment once the MLL establishes themselves and can support themselves, then they can look at opening the door...

I dont hate warrior nor do I favor them...they're just another company rtying to get paid...

[tlaing22]

Reebok is the official supplier of the NFL. I don't see Nike helping out the NFL, too.



The main difference is you can wear Nike cleats without getting fined in the NFL, while in the MLL, you get suspended for using anything other than Warrior.

Do you not see the problem with this?

[giantredlobster]

The main difference is you can wear Nike cleats without getting fined in the NFL, while in the MLL, you get suspended for using anything other than Warrior.

Do you not see the problem with this?

I totally agree. Although RBK may be the official sponsor, individual teams are sponsored by different companies. Albeit in: football, baseball, and basketball, there is not as much gear that is involved. But if more companies could sponsor JUST teams, that would beable to give Warrior more resources to promote the MLL. Because if they have every player wearing Warrior, but attendance is low they arent making as much money, as they could be if they have some players wearing Warrior with higher attendance.

[swordsman]

EXACTLY! It's all pretty much the same things. ITs just the people who make it first have higher prices. For example a Evo Pro is more exspensive then a Brine/STX/Gait-DeBeer/even Harrow or Shamrock head that may be just as good as the Evo Pro or not. That's why most people I know play ther companies. similar stuf or lower price. My only problem with Warrior is their prices but if they gave me stuff to play wit on a pro team I'd be happy because of or inspite of the price. Quality's the same all over.

[laxdevil666]

what everyone here has to realize is that these guys in the MLL will play better than anyone here with anything you give them. my coach last year schooled everyone on the high school team while he had the ball on the back of his stick. if you go out and thing that by having warrior stuff it makes you a wierdo, your dead wrong. personaly, i dont like warrior titanium, i love the c405 and kpros. i love their shoulder and rip pads, i hate, absolutly hate their helmets. at this point i dont play with anything other than a finalizer. i can still play wit everything else, but thats what i have the most confidence in. everyone here should sotp being so preocupied with what their playing with, and just play the game. my parents tell me this whenever i restring my stick(5 times a night or so). theyre a little wrong with what theyre talking about, but they have the right idea for the game itself. if you can play with one thing, you sure as hell cna play with whatever youre givven.

[stegmakk]

agree with the above 2 posts wholeheartedly...good points guys...

[Biffman49]

The main difference is you can wear Nike cleats without getting fined in the NFL, while in the MLL, you get suspended for using anything other than Warrior.

Do you not see the problem with this?

Here's the thing. Reebok is the official apparel sponsor of the NFL. Meaning that all the sideline gear (jackets, hats, beanies, etc.) are only made by Reebok. This is why the NFL will not let Mike Nolan (49ers Head Coach) wear a suit and tie on the sidelines.

Warrior is the official equipment supplier of Major League Lacrosse, and as such they have the right to prevent the players from using other companies gear. Which is exactly the same thing Reebok is doing with NFL sidelines.

All you guys who think that the gear makes the player have got another thing coming. Battista or whoever said it best, "It's the magician, not the wand." Besides, it's not a monopoly when the MLL chooses Warrior to be their official equipment supplier. It would be a monopoly if Warrior was the only lacrosse equipment supplier to consumers, period. Warrior has plenty of competition and is as much of a monopoly as people who sell on ebay.

[bonedaddy]

The point...PLAYERS are the ones that get hurt with the monopoly or whatever you want to call it. Because there is no players union, players are forced to do 100% of what the leagues says, which is to wear the gear for ZERO pay (they get paid to play). In every other league, players get the opportunity to earn supplemental income from gear deals (like shoes) which affords them the chance to make more money. Why should Warrior pay more athletes to use their gear when they already have to?

But...until the players get organized (like in the NLL), they'll need to do what they're told. For us fans, I don't think we suffer since the gear doesn't effect the quality of play, I think.

For the guys who want to make a living at playing lacrosse, one source of income is virtually shut off to them. By extension, I think the game gets hurt because young talent is forced to find other ways to make a living, or leave the game at a high level. Not everyone wants to teach and coach...some guys want to make some money.

[Lax101]

Wrong. Plenty of players have deals as reps for companies.

Warrior pays Millon, Curtis, Gill, Cattrano, Polanco, among others as their players reps.

Brine has of course Mikey, Battista, Tillman, and Cassesse

Gait has a bunch of players like Evans and Tom Ryan

STX has Gait, Marechek, Dougherty, Bergey, among others.

Players like Iverson and Jordan aren't being paid to wear a pair of shoes, they're being paid to have their name associated with their respective companies. They sell that player to associate them with their company. Lebron isn't getting paid 90 million dollars to just wear Nike gear. He's being paid to be included in their advertisements, have his name used in some of their products, etc. He's a player rep. Mikey is certainly having the same treatment done to him for Brine, isn't he? Nearly all brine ads now have Mikey's name used in it.

Plus, you guys need to stop comparing the NBA and NFL in terms of profit and advertisement to the MLL. Ryan Boyle ain't gunna get a 90 million dollar shoe contract like Lebron.