Equipment checks and psychology

[LaxRef]

I did two games last Friday. In game 1, Coach A called for a check of B1 and got a goal taken away and a 1:00 NR penalty, then Coach B called for stick check of A1 and got a 3:00 NR penalty. Then Coach A called for another one.

Next game, Coach C calls for one and gets a goal by D1 taken off the board. Then Coach D calls for one and gets a 3:00 NR on C1.

Tonight, team D played team E. When team E scored to go ahead 6-4, Coach D called for an equipment check and got the goal taken away, then scored on the 1:00 NR to tie the game at 5-5. Later, coach E called for one after team D scored to tie the game at 8-8; the goal came off the board and then team E scored 3 times during the 3:00 NR penalty and went on to win.

All of this makes me think that there's some interesting psychology going on with equipment checks. I think that when a team calls for one, it plants the idea in the other team's coach's head and makes him more likely to call one. Have other people noticed that teams are much more likely to call for equipment checks after the other team calls for one?

[Snake~eyes]

I think Coaches think its cheap to request a stick check, atleast that's the impression I get. I see where they are coming from.

Today I had a player using a shaft that was clearly long than 42'' and I'm sure it was shorter than 52''. At halftime the coach wanted to know the rule, I told him he could request a stick check but he said somthng like "that's cheap." I made it a point with my partner before even talking to the coach to stick check the player but he didn't use the stick the rest of the game.

But once a coach requests a check the other team feels that its time to get "payback" but you are absolutely right LaxRef.

[RockStar]

It's not cheap, just a big waste of time, IMO. Especially if you also have illegals on your team.

What I see most coaches doing in these parts is just taking pre-game notes on who's likely illegal, and then filing these in their pocket.

They never get taken out unless the other coach starts the shenanigans. The end result of this is that every high-level player is illegal, but no one really gives a rat's arse, and there's no time wasted with equipment checks.

Other trivia for CLA:

-If a captain requests an equipment check, he has to specify exactly what piece of equipment AND what attribute is to be measured, can't just say "measure the stick.
(e.g. have to say stick + length, stick + head width, goalie + leg pad width, goalie + shoulder pad thickness......etc.)

Sticks NEVER get measured, unless they're foolishly too short

-4.5" head width,
-no rule on pocket depth
-no rule against side-wall pinched tight enough to trap in conventional field-laX test (CLA test method involves a vertical roll from top of pocket to bottom.....ball can't be trapped by sidewall, or SW string at any point, has to roll freely from scoop to throat).

Goalie equipment sometimes gets measured, but only by coaches who are jerks!

[Lacrosse Ref LA]

Hey Rockstar, exactly what rulebook are you goin' with these days ?
Every High Level Player is illegal ? Huh ?
4.5 " Head Width is that Box ?
Sticks never get measured ? Huh ?
No rule on pocket depth ? Huh ?
LaxRef can you make any sense out of this ?

[CoachRob]

Hey Rockstar, exactly what rulebook are you goin' with these days ?
Every High Level Player is illegal ? Huh ?
4.5 " Head Width is that Box ?
Sticks never get measured ? Huh ?
No rule on pocket depth ? Huh ?
LaxRef can you make any sense out of this ?

RockStar is from Canada. I THINK CLA stands for Canadian lax assoc, and they play by different rules. But I'm not sure. With all the different sets of rules around, it's hard to know what's going on. I find NFHS enough for me to know.

[RockStar]

Yes, box is on my mind as that's what we play in summertime. Field is played in the fall here, and rules are mostly similar to what you know.

(Just for fun, check ILF field laX rules, If I remember right, their stick rules are really loose, and are closer to the box standards)

Just presenting my thoughts on coaches/captains requesting equipment checks (get a life, guys, it just wastes time!)

And then highlighting the reasons why (mercifully) sticks are never checked here.

[LaxRef]

Just presenting my thoughts on coaches/captains requesting equipment checks (get a life, guys, it just wastes time!)

I disagree. If people have agreed to play under a set of rules that regulate equipment to a certain standard, people who violate that standard deserve to be penalized. And I doubt the coach the gets an opponent's goal taken off the board and then is the beneficiary of a 3:00 NR penalty thinks he was wasting his time. Of course, that coach should be pretty certain that his players have legal equipment when he does that, or it will come right back to him.

[CTLaxer]

I think Coaches think its cheap to request a stick check, atleast that's the impression I get. I see where they are coming from.

That is my thinking as a coach. I do not like to do it as I feel it's insulting to the player, the opposing coach, and the opposing team. It's kind of a respect thing I feel. I abide by the rules, and make sure my players do too. I give the other teams in the league the respect and credability to think they follow the same guidelines that I do. The only time I call for stick checks is if it's either obviously illegal, or if a stick check as been called on my team.

As a side note, while coaching my girls team, I requested a stick check because this players stick was obviously illegal. The official came over, grabbed the stick, checked it. He called it a legal crosse for play. The funny thing is he did the check right in front of me and I watched the ball in the stick...it was no where near legal. He wasn't doing the stick check correctly and refused to listen to when I questioned his call. The player with the stick in question proceeded to get almost all of the goals that game. Not that the stick was the sole reason, but it surely helped.

[pboyd]

I think that Dave Urick would agree w/ LaxRef. It's in the Rules and its part of the game - we just enforce the rules - its not our role to engage in a determination of appropriateness.

[mustang_lax]

How do you refs judge pocket depth being illegal? Do you go by a certain amount of space between the ball and sidewall? My brother's stick is about a millimeter illegal and he got checked oen game and the ref didn't give him a penalty. However at another game he got the same stick checked, same pocket depth, and he got a penalty...

[LaxRef]

How do you refs judge pocket depth being illegal? Do you go by a certain amount of space between the ball and sidewall? My brother's stick is about a millimeter illegal and he got checked oen game and the ref didn't give him a penalty. However at another game he got the same stick checked, same pocket depth, and he got a penalty...

If you can see any sapce over the ball and under the sidewall, the stick is illegal. However, a stick that is just on the line may not always show space above the ball. If it's a little warm one day, the pocket may shrink just enough that it's legal. The next game, the humidity might be higher (or it might be raining, or he might have just caught a really hard pass, etc.) and it might be illegal.

[LaxRef]

I think that Dave Urick would agree w/ LaxRef. It's in the Rules and its part of the game - we just enforce the rules - its not our role to engage in a determination of appropriateness.

Here's another question: isn't it "cheap" for the coach to certify before the game that all equipment is legal when some of it isn't? To me, the coach is pledging that he knows that all of the equipment is legal. If even 10% of coaches actually check their team's equipment for legality, I'd be amazed. So what you have, in effect, is a high percentage of coaches lying before the game starts in every single game they coach.

I have had more illegal stick penalties than ever this year. I'm sure I average at least one a game on the officials' checks, maybe more, plus I've seen a lot of coach-requested checks turn up illegal sticks. Anything that gets the cheaters off the field is cool with me.

I would hate for it to get to the point where we have to check every stick before the game, but we may be heading that direction.

[LaxRef]

Tonight, team D played team E. When team E scored to go ahead 6-4, Coach D called for an equipment check and got the goal taken away, then scored on the 1:00 NR to tie the game at 5-5. Later, coach E called for one after team D scored to tie the game at 8-8; the goal came off the board and then team E scored 3 times during the 3:00 NR penalty and went on to win.

I got more background on this, and it's even more interesting. D1 and E1 (from opposing teams) had strung their sticks together. D1 told Coach D to have E1's stick checked after he scored because he knew it was illegal. E1 adjusted his strings after the request and got flagged for it, with the goal coming off the board. Then later D1 scored, and E1 told Coach E that D1's stick was illegal and that said he should request a check. It had already been adjusted when the officials asked for it, but it made the pocket bunch in a way such that the ball got stuck near the middle of the crosse and wouldn't roll out.

I guess it really is true that there is no honor among thieves!