Goal not allowed

[LaxRef]

I'm working on my NFHS rule proposals, and I want to clean up the "goal not allowed" section so it includes everything. It has:


Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed when the ball passes through the plane of the goal:
ART. 1 . . . After the game horn sounds to indicate the end of a period.
ART. 2 . . . After the period has ended, regardless of whether the official's whistle may have sounded.
ART. 3 . . . When any part of the body of a player of the attacking team is in the goal crease area at the time.
ART. 4 . . . When the attacking team has more than 10 players (including in the penalty area) on the field of play at the time.
ART. 5 . . . When the attacking team or both teams are offside at the time.
ART. 6 . . . After one of the officials has sounded the whistle for any reason, even if the sounding of the whistle was inadvertent.

I want them to add:

ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down or play on for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When a player has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error.
ART. 9 . . . When the scoring player's crosse is found to be illegal after the goal but before the next live ball.
ART. 10 . . . When an attacking player touches the goalkeeper o any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

Am I missing anything else?

[CoachRob]

I'm working on my NFHS rule proposals, and I want to clean up the "goal not allowed" section so it includes everything. It has:


Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed when the ball passes through the plane of the goal:
[snip]

I want them to add:

ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down or play on for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When a player has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error.
ART. 9 . . . When the scoring player's crosse is found to be illegal after the goal but before the next live ball.
ART. 10 . . . When an attacking player touches the goalkeeper or any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

Am I missing anything else?

Alter (8) to "When a player [from the attacking team] has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error."

Also, this has come up a lot in recent threads:
ART. 11 . . . When the attacking team has called for a legal TO that is recognized by an official, but the whistle has not sounded before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

I have to think about other situations that have come to mind in previous discussions, but this seems pretty good so far LR.

[LaxRef]

Let me add:

ART. 11 . . . If an official recognizes a request for a timeout from the team in possession or a foul by that team before the ball breaks the plane of the goal, regardless of whether the official has had time to blow the whistle.

[tjslax]

Art. 10 should read "touches the goal keeper or any part of the goal or netting, in the crease, before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

(In case the goaltender is out of the net and is checked)

[LaxRef]

Art. 10 should read "touches the goal keeper or any part of the goal or netting, in the crease, before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

(In case the goaltender is out of the net and is checked)

Hey, good catch. I rewrote it as:

ART. 10 . . . When an attacking player touches the goalkeeper in the crease or any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

[CoachRob]

What about the change to (8) I suggested? If the opponent releases early and they are scored upon, that shouldn't take the goal away.

[LaxRef]

Yeah, I changed that one to:

ART. 8 . . . When a player from the attacking team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error.

(That was a good one, too; I'm sorry I didn't properly recognize it.)

[CoachRob]

Can you relist the rule with the changes and additions for us to review?

[LaxRef]

As it currently reads:

RULE 4 SECTION 9
GOAL NOT COUNTED

Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed when the ball passes through the plane of the goal:
ART. 1 . . . After the game horn sounds to indicate the end of a period.
ART. 2 . . . After the period has ended, regardless of whether the official's whistle may have sounded.
ART. 3 . . . When any part of the body of a player of the attacking team is in the goal crease area at the time.
ART. 4 . . . When the attacking team has more than 10 players (including in the penalty area) on the field of play at the time.
ART. 5 . . . When the attacking team or both teams are offside at the time.
ART. 6 . . . After one of the officials has sounded the whistle for any reason, even if the sounding of the whistle was inadvertent.

My proposals:

ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down or play on for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When a player from the attacking team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error.
ART. 9 . . . When the scoring player's crosse is found to be illegal after the goal but before the next live ball.
ART. 10 . . . When an attacking player touches the goalkeeper in the crease or any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.
ART. 11 . . . If an official recognizes a request for a timeout from the team in possession or a foul by that team before the ball breaks the plane of the goal, regardless of whether the official has had time to blow the whistle.

Most of these are not "new" in the sense that they are covered elsewhere in the rulebook.

[CoachRob]

How can there be a flag down on the scoring team? Wouldn't a flag down bring about an immediate whistle if they are in possession, before they even get the shot off? I think this may be confusing (and impossible?). Plus, it can be interpreted as a flag down against EITHER team the way it is worded currently.

If you wanted to keep the flag down part (and I don't see the need as noted), it would have to read:

ART. 7 . . . When there is [either] a flag down or [a] play-on for a foul by the scoring team.

[LaxRef]

How can there be a flag down on the scoring team? Wouldn't a flag down bring about an immediate whistle if they are in possession, before they even get the shot off? I think this may be confusing (and impossible?). Plus, it can be interpreted as a flag down against EITHER team the way it is worded currently.

If you wanted to keep the flag down part (and I don't see the need as noted), it would have to read:

ART. 7 . . . When there is [either] a flag down or [a] play-on for a foul by the scoring team.

Who said the scoring team had possession? This is talking about the case you always bring up, where there is a flag down on team B and team A throws a clearing pass into the goal or the GK drops the ball into the goal.

I will re-word, though.

[LaxRef]

How's this:

ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When there is a play on for a foul by the scoring team.

[ref4ee]

ART. 10 . . . When an attacking player touches the goalkeeper in the crease or any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.



ART. 10 . . . When in the act of shooting, an attacking player touches the goalkeeper in the crease or any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

Otherwise we will see arguments when an offensive player rakes a ball off the back of the net.

[Shorelax]

Who said the scoring team had possession? This is talking about the case you always bring up, where there is a flag down on team B and team A throws a clearing pass into the goal or the GK drops the ball into the goal.

I will re-word, though.


Play on - ball gets kicked in the the goal...stranger things have happened.

[gfink]

Cannot agree with art. 8 as currently proposed. How can you penalize a team for an officials error. After all the timekeeper is considered an official. We all know what it is like to penalize a team for an onfield(payed and Trained) officials error. Try being the high school girl volunteering to do the job. What if the home team intentionally releases a player in an attempt to negate a fast break or obvious scoring oppurtunity. I can see it happening. Try and prove it. I am sure we have all officiated an arguement between home and visiting coaches about the releasing of players. Can this be effectively adjudicated in a two man system? I understand completely the thought process and may even agree with its spirit, but rules that are written have to be practical in thier enforcement also. Love the thought process. Keep it up.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Article 3 should be specific as to whether the cylinder of the crease or the ground in the crease is considered 'in the crease'.

[LaxRef]

ART. 10 . . . When in the act of shooting, an attacking player touches the goalkeeper in the crease or any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

Otherwise we will see arguments when an offensive player rakes a ball off the back of the net.

Another excellent point. We've already seen that here.

[LaxRef]

How about:

ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting touches the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting.

[CoachRob]

Cannot agree with art. 8 as currently proposed. How can you penalize a team for an officials error. After all the timekeeper is considered an official. We all know what it is like to penalize a team for an onfield(payed and Trained) officials error. Try being the high school girl volunteering to do the job. What if the home team intentionally releases a player in an attempt to negate a fast break or obvious scoring oppurtunity. I can see it happening. Try and prove it. I am sure we have all officiated an arguement between home and visiting coaches about the releasing of players. Can this be effectively adjudicated in a two man system? I understand completely the thought process and may even agree with its spirit, but rules that are written have to be practical in thier enforcement also. Love the thought process. Keep it up.

But GFink, that's the point. The error is usually by a non-certified volunteer. If they make an error, and it results in a goal, should we really let it stand?

I guess we can all see how tough it is to write rules that are clear and acceptable to EVERYBODY.

[CoachRob]

How's this:

ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When there is a play on for a foul by the scoring team.

This is better. I agree with your point.

[CoachRob]

How about:

ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting touches the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting.

add before the ball breaks the plane of the goal for completeness sake. Otherwise, one can claim it can occur any time, even AFTER it scores.

[LaxRef]

How about:

ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting touches the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting.

I changed this again to read:

ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting or his teammate touches the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting.

[CoachRob]

and before the ball breaks the plane of the goal

[LaxRef]

Cannot agree with art. 8 as currently proposed. How can you penalize a team for an officials error. After all the timekeeper is considered an official. We all know what it is like to penalize a team for an onfield(payed and Trained) officials error..

First of all, we penalize teams for official's errors all the time. Official blows an inadvertant whistle just before the ball goes into the goal . . . no goal.

Secondly, this is already the rule. I'm just making sure it gets listed where it should be. The relevant rule is:

7.13 SITUATION B: B1 is in penalty area for one minute. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper's mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to penalty area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded according to the alternate-possession rule.

[LaxRef]

and before the ball breaks the plane of the goal

The whole section starts with:

Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed when the ball passes through the plane of the goal:

So I think when we add:

ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting or his teammate touches the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting.

the gets at what you're trying to say. Let me know if I'm missing something.

[CoachRob]

How about this?

ART. 8 . . . When a player from the scoring team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error. In such a situation, the ball shall be awarded by the alternate-possession rule.

Do you want to relist the rule again with all the changes, LR?

[CoachRob]

Let me know if I'm missing something.
Sorry. When you wrote th e first post, it included:

ART. 10 . . . When an attacking player touches the goalkeeper o any part of the goal or netting before the ball breaks the plane of the goal.

So, I figured if you did it there, it should be in other places. But I agree it's redundant.

[LaxRef]

Do you want to relist the rule again with all the changes, LR?

The additions are:

ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When there is a play on for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 9 . . . After a player from the attacking team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error.
ART. 10 . . . When the scoring player's crosse is found to be illegal after the goal but before the next live ball.
ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting or his teammate touches the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting.
ART. 12 . . . If an official recognizes a request for a timeout from the team in possession or a foul by that team before the ball breaks the plane of the goal, regardless of whether the official has had time to blow the whistle.

[Shorelax]

I guess we can all see how tough it is to write rules that are clear and acceptable to EVERYBODY.


Excellent Point. Thats why the case book is so important. I would like to see a longer, more detailed case book.

[CoachRob]

I think (9) should read "ART. 9 . . . After a player from the attacking team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error. In such a situation, the ball shall be awarded by the alternate-possession rule."

This is the only one (other than #6) where the restart is by AP, AFAICT. I think it woud clarify the situation a bit. But otherwise, I think it's much better now.

[LaxRef]

I think (9) should read "ART. 9 . . . After a player from the attacking team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error. In such a situation, the ball shall be awarded by the alternate-possession rule."

This is the only one (other than #6) where the restart is by AP, AFAICT. I think it woud clarify the situation a bit. But otherwise, I think it's much better now.

Done and done.

[CoachRob]

Good. So what are you going to submit to the committee, and how do you go about this?

[LaxRef]

Good. So what are you going to submit to the committee, and how do you go about this?

PM me your e-mail address and I'll forward you the form and e-mail on the subject.

[Snake~eyes]

I would be very suprised if they accept any of your changes. I would definitely like to see it but if you've noticed they don't often make lots of changes but we definitley need to rewrite a lot of rules. Not only that they usually follow suit with NCAA. We will see though, I wish you the best of luck and I'm willing to help out in any way possible, just let me know.

[CoachRob]

So here is the final rule with all the modifications:

GOAL NOT ALLOWED
Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed when the ball passes through the plane of the goal:
ART. 1 . . . After the game horn sounds to indicate the end of a period.
ART. 2 . . . After the period has ended, regardless of whether the official's whistle may have sounded.
ART. 3 . . . When any part of the body of a player of the attacking team is in the goal crease area at the time.
ART. 4 . . . When the attacking team has more than 10 players (including in the penalty area) on the field of play at the time.
ART. 5 . . . When the attacking team or both teams are offside at the time.
ART. 6 . . . After one of the officials has sounded the whistle for any reason, even if the sounding of the whistle was inadvertent.

ADDED:
ART. 7 . . . When there is a flag down for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 8 . . . When there is a play on for a foul by the scoring team.
ART. 9 . . . After a player from the attacking team has released early from the penalty area, either on his own or due to a timer's error. In such a situation, the ball shall be awarded by the alternate-possession rule."
ART. 10 . . . When the scoring player's crosse is found to be illegal after the goal but before the next live ball.
ART. 11 . . . After a player in the act of shooting or his teammate touches the goalkeeper in the crease, or touches any part of the goal or netting.
ART. 12 . . . If an official recognizes a request for a timeout from the team in possession or a foul by that team before the ball breaks the plane of the goal, regardless of whether the official has had time to blow the whistle.