Simultaneous Fouls Rewrite

[LaxRef]

Okay, here's one of the big ones. As much as many of us would like this repealed completely, I opted to just go for making it understandable at this point. Maybe they'll look at it and think, "Why do we even have this rule anymore?" :chuckle:

RULE 7 SECTION 6 SIMULTANEOUS FOULS
Simultaneous fouls are fouls called on players of opposing teams (delete -> during a live ball or a dead ball when sequence cannot be determined. <- delete) (1) during the same live ball or (2) during a dead ball when sequence cannot be determined.

ART. 1 . . . During a slow whistle or play-on, any foul committed by the team in possession (or entitled to possession) shall result in an immediate whistle.

ART. 2 . . . Penalty time:

a. If there is no play-on or flag down in effect and if all fouls are technical, the fouls cancel.
b. If the team in possession (or entitled to possession) commits:
(delete -> (a <- delete)1) Only technical fouls, no penalty time will be served by that team.
(delete -> (b<- delete) 2) Any personal foul, all players involved will serve penalty time.

ART. 3 . . . Award the ball:
a. When penalty time is awarded and one team incurs less total penalty time than its opponent, that team shall be awarded the ball.
b. When penalty times are equal or all fouls cancel:
1) If a team has possession or is entitled to possession at the time of the flag or whistle, that team shall retain possession.
2) If neither team has possession at the time of the fouls, the ball shall be awarded according to the alternate-possession rule. Exception: When a faceoff is pending in this situation, a faceoff will be held.
c. When play is resumed either by award or possession, field position of the ball shall be provided for as in Rule 7-3.

7.6 Situation O: During a loose ball, B1 pushes A1 from behind and a play-on is called. While the ball is still live, A1 turns and slashes B1. RULING: These are simultaneous fouls. Since Team A was entitled to possession, all players involved serve penalty time. B1 serves 30 seconds and A1 serves 1:00, with the first 30 seconds of each penalty being nonreleasable.

[CoachRob]

(delete -> (b<- delete) 2) Any personal foul, all players involved will serve penalty time. This shall include technical and personal fouls against either team.

This supports the loose ball penalty in the new case you wrote. I was working on a rewrite of 7.6 with the EXACT same case based on an earlier thread. You beat me to it.

[CoachRob]

7.6 Situation P: A1, in possession, is slashed by B1. Flag down, SW. A2 slashes B1 at the exact same moment A1 wards B2. Whistle sounds. RULING: These are simultaneous fouls. Since team A was entitled to possession, all players involved serve penalty time. B1 and A2 serve 1 minute each; A1 serves 30 seconds. According to the "common time" rule (see 7-2-4), all penalty time is non-releasable. Due to more accrued simultaneous foul penalty time against team A, team B is awarded possession at the spot of the ball when the whistle blew, or outside the goal area.

[tjslax]

LR, in article 2-b-2 should there be wording that wouyld indicate that both players will be locked in for the duration of the shorter penalty (or for the total penalty if the times are equal)?

[LaxRef]

LR, in article 2-b-2 should there be wording that wouyld indicate that both players will be locked in for the duration of the shorter penalty (or for the total penalty if the times are equal)?

That's covered by rule 7-2

[CoachRob]

7.6 Situation P: A1, in possession, is slashed by B1. Flag down, SW. A2 slashes B1 at the exact same moment A1 wards B2. Whistle sounds. RULING: These are simultaneous fouls. Since team A was entitled to possession, all players involved serve penalty time. B1 and A2 serve 1 minute each; A1 serves 30 seconds. According to the "common time" rule (see 7-2-4), all penalty time is non-releasable. Due to more accrued simultaneous foul penalty time against team A, team B is awarded possession at the spot of the ball when the whistle blew, or outside the goal area.

LaxRef and others, so you agree with this case scenario I created? If not, why not?

[CoachRob]

I would change the first sentence for FURTHER clarify it:

RULE 7 SECTION 6 SIMULTANEOUS FOULS
Simultaneous fouls are fouls called on players of opposing teams (1) during the same live ball period even when sequence can be determined; or (2) during a dead ball when sequence cannot be determined.

[CoachRob]

So the final version is:

RULE 7 SECTION 6 SIMULTANEOUS FOULS
Simultaneous fouls are fouls called on players of opposing teams (1) during the same live ball period even when sequence can be determined; or 2) during a dead ball when sequence cannot be determined.

ART. 1 . . . During a slow whistle or play-on, any foul committed by the team in possession (or entitled to possession) shall result in an immediate whistle.

ART. 2 . . . Penalty time:
a. If there is no play-on or flag down in effect and if all fouls are technical, the fouls cancel.
b. If the team in possession (or entitled to possession) commits:
(1) Only technical fouls, no penalty time will be served by that team.
(2) Any personal foul, all players involved will serve penalty time. This shall include technical and personal fouls against either team.
c. Releasability shall be in accordance with Rule 7-2.4.

ART. 3 . . . Award the ball:
a. When penalty time is awarded and one team incurs less total penalty time than its opponent, that team shall be awarded the ball.
b. When penalty times are equal or all fouls cancel:
(1) If a team has possession or is entitled to possession at the time of the flag or whistle, that team shall retain possession.
(2) If neither team has possession at the time of the fouls, the ball shall be awarded according to the alternate-possession rule. Exception: When a face-off is pending in this situation, a face-off will be held.
c. When play is resumed either by award or possession, field position of the ball shall be provided for as in Rule 7-3.

7.6 Situation O: During a loose ball, B1 pushes A1 from behind and a play-on is called. While the ball is still live, A1 turns and slashes B1. RULING: These are simultaneous fouls. Since Team A was entitled to possession, all players involved serve penalty time. B1 serves 30 seconds and A1 serves 1:00, with the first 30 seconds of each penalty being non-releasable.

7.6 Situation P: A1, in possession, is slashed by B1. Flag down, SW. A2 slashes B1 at the exact same moment A1 wards B2. Whistle sounds. RULING: These are simultaneous fouls. Since team A was entitled to possession, all players involved serve penalty time. B1 and A2 serve 1 minute each; A1 serves 30 seconds. According to the "common time" rule (see 7-2-4), all penalty time is non-releasable. Due to more accrued simultaneous foul penalty time against team A, team B is awarded possession at the spot of the ball when the whistle blew, or outside the goal area.

[LaxRef]

LaxRef and others, so you agree with this case scenario I created? If not, why not?

I agree that it is technically correct. However, I think we shouldn't call attention to it since if the ward occurs a millisecond before or after the personal foul the player committing the ward does not serve one second.

[CoachRob]

Sounds reasonable.

[pboyd]

I disagree with the recommended 7.6 Situation P: This situation is too complicated for the average official using "At the exact same moment" in an attempt to combine 7-8 ART 9 with 7-6 ART 2.b(b) to make a point. When A2 slashes B1 - the normal official will kill the play and penalize both players - I don't think that most officials will ever see (or acknowledge) the A2 slash and A1 ward "at the exact same moment." We need to simplify the Rules not make them more complicated - this proposed situation is great for the forum - it shows insight and makes one think but it doesn't belong in the Rules. No offense just one man's opinion.

[LaxRef]

Agreed. CoachRob's proposal is in fact what is implied by the current rules, but since there would be no penalty for a ward a tenth of a second earlier or later, I don't think it makes sense to ever "see" them as happening at the same time.