View Full Version : Return of the Onset
ColtsLax
06-02-2005, 06:53 PM
Looking at the selling heads, things like te E3 is way offset, yet the proton, X2 and answer are all nearly onset. Anybody use a total onset head, sniper, excalibur, M1?
NY Lax 4
06-02-2005, 06:56 PM
penitrators are onset also...those look pretty sick
lax4life6
06-02-2005, 07:33 PM
ok whats the difference between offset and onset. I sound like a newb but i never really got into all tha technical terms for stuff. I'm voting for whatever a torque is.
laxfan251
06-02-2005, 07:47 PM
its offset, the torque, prob fully offset. A head that is onset is straight with the shaft, you put it horizontally, and the head will be straight acrosse. You put a offset head on a shaft and hold it horizontally, the head will go straight at first the go up on down depending on how your holding the head, the head will then usually come back a little bit, but now much. The penitrator though is wierd, it goes offset at first, then comes back fully onset, so its basically onset. hope i didnt confuse u, maybe someone can get pics up.
ex-lax
06-02-2005, 07:52 PM
im pretty shure the answer is very offset
mistatreymckay
06-02-2005, 07:55 PM
i agree i just ordered one....
laxfan251
06-02-2005, 08:32 PM
no, the answer is not really offset, its medium offset, thats the exact term brine uses in its dealers catalog, and i have one. I also own a answer and its not fully offset.
Lax101
06-02-2005, 08:37 PM
answer is very close to onset.
but when the hell has a proton or x2 been nearly onset? They're both very offset. Its jsut that they use a forward cant instead of a traditional brine offset.
goalieskcickay
06-02-2005, 08:45 PM
Yeah, I thought the X2 was full offset. Thats what it feels like to me. (I have one, so I think I should know) For goalie heads, I had to say onset, because its hard, after all those years with onset to transition to offset. I has a whole different feeling to it. Of course, I use a Nemesis, which is partially offset, so I can't really talk.
EDIT:
Uhoh, nine-hundred and eleventh post, 911. :beard:
LCNlaxman
06-02-2005, 08:55 PM
^^^ That's kinda weird. SCREENSHOT!!
Anyway, i like all those options so i refuse to vote. i love my Turbo (onset), the Vapor is pretty good (nearly-offset), the Icon is rockin (near-onset), and Nitrouses are awesome (full-offset).
I think i got the 'sets right. Well, anyway, i like them all.
moorestown midi
06-02-2005, 08:58 PM
i have a sniper howmuch you pay for it
roycegracie47
06-02-2005, 09:01 PM
Hooray for straight heads. In regards to the penitrator, I'd say it's more of a positive onset (like STX described the vector) as it has a very offset feel to it, but after you put it on the shaft it dips back towards being level with the shaft.
Ah to remember the days when the turbo, excalibur and M series were kings....
goalieskcickay
06-02-2005, 09:09 PM
My coach can school all the Dmen with his M1. So it's the player, not the stick.
lax4life6
06-02-2005, 09:54 PM
its offset, the torque, prob fully offset. A head that is onset is straight with the shaft, you put it horizontally, and the head will be straight acrosse. You put a offset head on a shaft and hold it horizontally, the head will go straight at first the go up on down depending on how your holding the head, the head will then usually come back a little bit, but now much. The penitrator though is wierd, it goes offset at first, then comes back fully onset, so its basically onset. hope i didnt confuse u, maybe someone can get pics up.
o okay. I knew that but didnt know the term. I knew offset but i always thought of onset as just not offset. I was thingking an onset head would have a "dip" going forward instead of back
ColtsLax
06-02-2005, 10:14 PM
both the proton and the X2, now that i think about fall into the same group as a penitrator, they go off, then come back, the X2 more than the Pro. I know that the stick doesnt determine everything, but There is a significant differnace between the way they play. i used to use and original edge, and the transition was noticable at first. the mesh also hangs differently in each stick. My M1 pocket is lower than my edge's was.
Orange
06-02-2005, 11:08 PM
There's clearly a noticeable difference when going from an offset head to an onset head. But, when I used an offset stick I can never tell there is a difference between their degree of offset. For example, I use an Evo Pro and it's supposed to be full offset while I also use an X2 sometimes, I can't tell a difference in their degree of offset. As long as the head is offset, I can use it.
ExLax038
06-02-2005, 11:30 PM
Ive got an stx vector and its pretty sick although I bent the shaft I put it on though, its still sick................pics: http://community.webshots.com/photo/343134129/343144841UGHjxs
http://community.webshots.com/photo/343134129/343144998OnXXoa
laxfan251
06-03-2005, 12:57 AM
no, i have a penitrator, and it does not feel offset at all like someone just said, it feels fully onset to me. And no, i have a proton, and my friend has an X2, and their offset/onset is not even comparable to the penitrator, it completely different, so whoever said that is mistaken. Also, all heads that ive seen go offset and come back a little towards then scoop, so thats kinda dumb.
Farny
06-03-2005, 07:45 AM
To respond to earlier posts:
The Answer has a medium offset. While you think at first that the offset is really big (Pictures on lax.com made me think so), it ends up being at around a Vapor, a little more than a Revolution. The Torque uses that canting method and ends up being pretty offset.
My first head was an Excalibur: fully onset. Then, I got a Revolution, which was very lightly offset. I got a Hype, which is moderately offset, as well as an Answer and a Vapor, which are both moderately offset. I voted for the moderate offset option.
roycegracie47
06-03-2005, 08:04 AM
no, i have a penitrator, and it does not feel offset at all like someone just said, it feels fully onset to me. And no, i have a proton, and my friend has an X2, and their offset/onset is not even comparable to the penitrator, it completely different, so whoever said that is mistaken. Also, all heads that ive seen go offset and come back a little towards then scoop, so thats kinda dumb.
I didn't feel mistaken as that's how the head felt to me after going through some rigorous wallball. Maybe it was more due to my stringing, but I wasn't comparing it to other offset heads, I was comparing it more to the vector which was designed to be onset, but give a psuedo-offset feel.
Jpettit25
06-03-2005, 09:53 AM
I prefer fully offset, like the Matrix. I also prefer the straight offset like the matrix has as opposed to the canted offset that the X2 and many STX heads have. I just like they way it feels when I cradle better.
laxoholic
06-03-2005, 11:00 AM
i like offsets, but i played with an onset (warrior odessy) for about a season just to try one and I really liked it. The release of an onset is really quick and acurate. the cradeling is good if you don't spin, but spinning is bad anyway.But i like the offsets a little better so i voted for nearly onset best of both worlds.
roycegracie47
06-03-2005, 11:05 AM
The word is "straight" people. There are straight head, and then there are offset heads.
While true, I believe onset popped into terminalogy after offset heads became the norm in the market. I try to refer to them as straight but don't always.
MontclairLax
07-13-2005, 07:50 PM
What exactly does canted mean?
MBLacrosse
07-13-2005, 07:59 PM
Gaits got a new straight head coming out for 2006. i forget what its called but i saw it in their 2006 product catalogue.
MontclairLax
07-13-2005, 09:29 PM
I heard somewhere that STX was also coming out with some straight heads for this year.
SenatorLaX30
07-13-2005, 09:36 PM
penitrators are onset also...those look pretty sick
penetrators aren't onset lol they're offset
LCNlaxman
07-13-2005, 10:04 PM
penetrators aren't onset lol they're offset
Actually, they are onset. It dips in the center, but other than that it's onset.
moorestown midi
07-13-2005, 10:19 PM
the blaze is hella straight but its a cool stick
yeah stx is done with offset heads, they are coming out with new straight heads and bringing back thier offset shafts......
got tired of paying all those royalties to other companies i guess
laxngoalie
07-13-2005, 11:03 PM
A cant is two degrees less than parallel to the shaft, thats wat makes the difference
NLLStormCA
07-14-2005, 03:29 AM
sorry if this is off topic, but i like onset heads, with offset shafts...but i cant find any offset shafts...anyone have one???
lax save man
07-14-2005, 06:55 AM
off set is the way to go
lax4life6
07-14-2005, 07:14 AM
sorry if this is off topic, but i like onset heads, with offset shafts...but i cant find any offset shafts...anyone have one???
someone just said STX is going back to offset shafts so you shouldnt have to wait too much longer
LCNlaxman
07-14-2005, 07:41 AM
someone just said STX is going back to offset shafts so you shouldnt have to wait too much longer
I'm getting giddy at just the thought! :agree: Can't wait to see the new STX line! :worship:
spenny
07-14-2005, 09:39 AM
someone just said STX is going back to offset shafts so you shouldnt have to wait too much longer
remember: offset shafts + offset heads = 3 minutes non-releasable (and if you play for me, a BUTTLOAD of sprints)
Westhill lax
07-14-2005, 09:43 AM
i dont rly have a preferience if i pick up a stick andi like how it feels and throws i use it
MontclairLax
07-14-2005, 10:11 AM
Will the new Stx heads/shafts that are offset shafts and straight heads be connected? Because I want one of their straight heads but not the offset shaft. I want a normal shaft. Can someone explain what the offset shafts feel like and look like. THe advantages and disadvantages.
roycegracie47
07-14-2005, 10:15 AM
Will the new Stx heads/shafts that are offset shafts and straight heads be connected? Because I want one of their straight heads but not the offset shaft. I want a normal shaft. Can someone explain what the offset shafts feel like and look like. THe advantages and disadvantages.
The rumor mill has it that the new shafts will be accompanied by new straight heads to go together, sort of like when debeer released the Phantom a couple years back designed to go on the canted triax or just on a regular shaft (but if I want a straight head I don't want an offset shaft, defeats the purpose for getting the head imo).
LCNlaxman
07-14-2005, 10:16 AM
Will the new Stx heads/shafts that are offset shafts and straight heads be connected? Because I want one of their straight heads but not the offset shaft. I want a normal shaft. Can someone explain what the offset shafts feel like and look like. THe advantages and disadvantages.
Offset shafts look and feel bent. The basic principle behind the offset shaft is that is basically IS bent. I've only thrown with an offset shaft on an offset head and it feels REALLY awkward. An onset head on a straight shaft feels different from an offset head on a straight shaft because the head is moved closer to level with the center of gravity.
Advantages:
Gives onset heads offset feel.
Disadvantages:
Illegal to use with offset head.
spenny
07-14-2005, 10:18 AM
offset shafts were what we had before offset heads. they have a bend at the end, before the head.
back in the 80s we used to make our own by banging the shaft on a convenient metal post, some used the goal, many used the post the gate to the field was on.
do you mean connected as in permanantly? i doubt it.
personally i think STX is bringing back the onset or straight head because the NCAA rules comittee is looking at banning the offset head. it may take a few years, but i think its within the realm of possibility.
MontclairLax
07-14-2005, 10:24 AM
I really am dying for a straight head after i made a small pocket on my razer i fell in love. ANd i really want a straight head so i can have the pocket at the bottom.
LCNlaxman
07-14-2005, 10:28 AM
personally i think STX is bringing back the onset or straight head because the NCAA rules comittee is looking at banning the offset head. it may take a few years, but i think its within the realm of possibility.
Now why in the world would they do that? These days, there's only a handful of heads in production that are even CLOSE to being onset. The Penitrator (which is for box only anyway), the Oracle (it curves up then back down), the Blaze (barely offset), the Radius (same as Blaze), the Phantom (is onset), the Shockwave (also onset), the three Shamrock heads (two onset, one barely offset), AV8 (onset), Ballhog (onset), Quark (onset), Vector (onset), Canada (onset), Odyssey (onset), Savage (onset), and Xacto (onset).
The only thing is, all the heads that are actually onset, they are deemed "beginner's" heads, and most lax players stray away from them. So, should they disclude them, that leaves 7 heads that are onset or close to it.
roycegracie47
07-14-2005, 10:30 AM
the Shockwave (also onset)
You're thinking of the Aftershock, the Shockwave is the offset one.
LCNlaxman
07-14-2005, 10:37 AM
You're thinking of the Aftershock, the Shockwave is the offset one.
Ah, good catch. Laxshopper doesn't have the best pictures...
gfgoalie28
07-14-2005, 12:26 PM
GBlax sells offset Gait shafts.
spenny
07-14-2005, 12:34 PM
Now why in the world would they do that? These days, there's only a handful of heads in production that are even CLOSE to being onset. The Penitrator (which is for box only anyway), the Oracle (it curves up then back down), the Blaze (barely offset), the Radius (same as Blaze), the Phantom (is onset), the Shockwave (also onset), the three Shamrock heads (two onset, one barely offset), AV8 (onset), Ballhog (onset), Quark (onset), Vector (onset), Canada (onset), Odyssey (onset), Savage (onset), and Xacto (onset).
The only thing is, all the heads that are actually onset, they are deemed "beginner's" heads, and most lax players stray away from them. So, should they disclude them, that leaves 7 heads that are onset or close to it.
i think the coaches are tired of the offensive advantages of the offset stick (even in moderately offset sticks) just a hunch i have. i could be on crack, we will have to wait a few years to find out
a2lacrosse
07-14-2005, 12:52 PM
Savage (onset), and Xacto (onset).
i thought they both were Offset, just not very much. I own a Savage and it seems to be almost as offset as my vapor(not very offset).
personally i think STX is bringing back the onset or straight head because the NCAA rules comittee is looking at banning the offset head. it may take a few years, but i think its within the realm of possibility.I would be shocked if the no-balls NCAA did that. You're talking about the same NCAA who banned the Big Nasty and Warrior's giant cuff goalie gloves, only to cave in once Warrior threatened legal action.
I would be all for it though. If not a return to straight heads, they could reduce the limits of offset & pinch, b/c the sticks are really getting out of hand. But Pandora's box has long been open, so I don't see it ever being contained.
jedimasterPIMP
07-14-2005, 01:35 PM
Well as a face off man i would really like to see a return of straight sticks, if a straight stick was produced with a pinch of an evo pro or something close to that it would be awsome. As a feild player i would aslo like to see a return of straight heads. I like the quick release and just the feel of a straight stick. And from what ive heard i am pretty excited about the new stuff comin out of STX cuz if a head is supposed to come with an offset shaft that means it has to be straight.
spenny
07-14-2005, 02:40 PM
I would be shocked if the no-balls NCAA did that. You're talking about the same NCAA who banned the Big Nasty and Warrior's giant cuff goalie gloves, only to cave in once Warrior threatened legal action.
I would be all for it though. If not a return to straight heads, they could reduce the limits of offset & pinch, b/c the sticks are really getting out of hand. But Pandora's box has long been open, so I don't see it ever being contained.
i agree about the castrati in indianapolis, but the rules committee is starting to make efforts to speed up the game. i heard noise about the shot clock again (which is a non starter for many reasons chiefly $$$) its only a matter of time before they work back to the the crux of the problem: its too hard to get the ball out of an offset stick. all of the games current problems stem from that fact.
plus tierney's on the rules comm for the next few years, and he's never been a fan of offset sticks.
mclax
07-14-2005, 02:59 PM
:bawling: personally i will never die for a straight stick... i used to use them because were the only thing around when i first started playing and then i got an edge and from there it has been a love afair with offset.. its evolution in lacrosse.. soon the defense will evolve and be able to get the ball out of a offset stick just as easy as an onset.
please dont take my sweet offset sticks away please!!
LCNlaxman
07-15-2005, 12:42 PM
i thought they both were Offset, just not very much. I own a Savage and it seems to be almost as offset as my vapor(not very offset).
It's possible, again, Laxshopper doesn't always have the best pictures.
a2lacrosse
07-15-2005, 01:25 PM
It's possible, again, Laxshopper doesn't always have the best pictures.
Warriorlacrosse.com says they have like Moderate offset or something
Originally Posted by spenny
"personally i think STX is bringing back the onset or straight head because the NCAA rules comittee is looking at banning the offset head. it may take a few years, but i think its within the realm of possibility."
Spenny:
One of the main reasons STX is going back to the straight head is that they were getting killed paying royalties to Brine/Warrior for thier offset heads. I don't think the NCAA will take away the offset head any time in the near future.
falconslax15
07-17-2005, 04:46 PM
had an m1 first 2 years i played, and I hated it didn't work good for me at all, now I have a head with a moderate and it works much better
BuckNakedLax
07-27-2005, 02:55 PM
Where are you all getting this info about STX not making offset sticks anymore? If that is true, I'm gonna have to go buy like 5-6 Protons and X2s.
from knowing people in the industry, trust me its true and that probably wouldnt be a bad idea
Pedro995
07-27-2005, 08:36 PM
Straight heads reign supreme, I started on a sniper, then viper, then excalibur ( the best). e-lacrosse.com still has vipers and snipers for sale 20 and 25 bucks respectively, and i just picked up a few odysseys from lacrosse.com (on sale, nice price). For short stick i definetly prefer the straight heads because of the accuracy and release. I got a pinched and unpinched viper both with corner pockets and they throw brilliantly. My excal is done up with 6-d and is decent but needs restringing, definetly one of the best heads ever made along with the turbo. I started on d-pole with an m-series but since then i have used and edge plus, quite sturdy. When wielding a six-foot pole offset heads feel smoother in my experience. I recently got an edge-x from lacrosse.com, strung it up pita and i am very pleased, if you are strapped for cash and need a head, i definetly recommend Great Atlantic's sale section before they run out, the edge-x and prophecy are 30 bucks and odyssey is 20, great deals on great heads. Keep it real with straight heads, they will keep your stick skills tuned and fresh and make you surprisingly accurate and stop all you attackman from being lazy.
ok so don't worry if you love the duece and proton + as STX will keep making them, not sure about the X2 though. But STX isn't coming out with any new offset heads, instead they've got about 5 new straight heads (one is based on the proton) that will only come complete with an offset shaft. sorry for the mix up
MontclairLax
07-28-2005, 04:51 PM
ok so don't worry if you love the duece and proton + as STX will keep making them, not sure about the X2 though. But STX isn't coming out with any new offset heads, instead they've got about 5 new straight heads (one is based on the proton) that will only come complete with an offset shaft. sorry for the mix up
When you say complete with an offset shaft do you mean attached? Because I want to purchase a straight head with a straight shaft.