"Play on" guidelines

[LaxRef]

After discussing the "play on" with colleagues lately, I have a few guidelines to throw out there.

(1) A play-on is there to allow a team to keep an advantage, not to see if maybe they can acquire an advantage. Thus, you should keep the play-ons very short unless you can see an obvious advantage.

(2) There is less likely to be an advantage to be had when the offended team is clearing, so err on the side of short play-ons there. When the offended team is in front of the crease, let the play-on go on a little longer.

(3) Short play ons make it less likely that you'll have a simultaneous foul situation in which a player serves 30 seconds for a loose-ball technical (or LBT to laxfan25).

[rilax]

(3) Short play ons make it less likely that you'll have a simultaneous foul situation in which a player serves 30 seconds for a loose-ball technical (or LBT to laxfan25).


hu?? LBT = no time.

[laxfan25]

a loose-ball technical (or LBT to laxfan25).

Hey, I was just noticing the widespread use of acronyms on the site, and just assumed that one was on the list!
I agree that the play-on was instituted to eliminate the possibility of stopping a fast-break opportunity for the offended team. If there is no clear chance to pick up the ball, whistle it dead. It definitely can stop an unfortunate addtional occurence. I will also whistle it dead if the offended team is going to scoop the ball and the defender is right there to check his stick the moment it is in his pocket. In my mind (or IMM), this violates the principle of advantage gained or lost. If the team that was offended was going to be given the ball with a 5 yard cushion on the restart, this seems very unfair, so I will whistle and start 'em over.

[LowRida]

I do not really understand the "play on". How does not blowing the whistle keep the possesing team with the advantage if the penalty will not start until the ball is dropped?

[laxfan25]

I do not really understand the "play on". How does not blowing the whistle keep the possesing team with the advantage if the penalty will not start until the ball is dropped?

LowRida,
You are confusing "play on" with a "flag-down, slow whistle". As you are probably aware, when a ref calls a time-serving penalty he throws the flag in the air. the team that was fouled, if they have possession, can then continue on and attempt to score a goal before the penalty is assessed. The slow whistle stops if the ball hits the ground (outside of on a shot), the player exits the "box", or the shot goes in the goal or loses it's original shot momentum. (I'm sure LaxRef can put that better than I). If a goal is scored, technical fouls are waved off, but personal fouls are always served, in addition to being scored on.
The "play on" is typically used when there is a loose ball foul, let's say a push in the back when two players are going for a ground ball. The ref puts one arm in the air and yells "play on". this lets everyone know that there is a potential whistle for a violation. If the offended team can cleanly pick up the ball in a short period of time, the ref will yell "Play" or the team color, to indicate that the play on is off. There is no need for a whistle or a restart because the team that would be getting the ball already has it. The intent of the "play on" was to not disadvantage a team that might have a scoring opportunity arise. Let's say there's a ground ball. You kick it ahead at the same time as you are pushed in the back. If you're quick, you might be able to pick up the ball and have a fast break. Without the play on, the ref might blow the whistle on the push, negating that nice head start you had.
Hopefully that clears things up a little.

[zebra618]

Here are some common situations:

1. Loose ball play, White pushes Blue from behind. We have a Loose Ball Technical foul. We want to provide Blue with the opportunity to pickup the loose ball - so we call "Play -on". If Blue does not acquire possession, we will blow the play dead, and award possession to Blue ( enforcing the penalty).

2. Goalie of White has the ball clamped within the crease. Blue reaches in and lifts the goalies stick. We have Goal Keeper Interference penalty. We want to provide White with the opportunity to make a clear, so we call "Play-on".

In both cases, there will not be penalty time served, and neither is there possession.

Hope this helps.

[LowRida]

Thanks alot guys, that cleared up something I have wondered for awhile. :clap:

[eme]

Some additional play-on advice:

1. The VERY WORST THING during/after your signal for play-on that can happen to the team that is disadvantaged is to have a clean re-start with possession and all players five yards away. Play-on should not be thought of as JUST a chance to keep the game moving without a whistle...i.e. the disadvantaged team scoops up the loose ball during a play-on as he is about to head out of bounds with a pack of opposing players surrounding him. What would our disadvantaged player like to have? A clean re-start? or the ball in his stick as flies out of bounds?

2. North-South play-ons are better than east-west play-ons.
3. The lower the level of play, the less time before a whistle on a play-on.

[laxfan25]

eme, I was a little confused when I first read your post - "the WORST THING is to get a clean restart with all players 5 yds away" - Huh? Then I understood that you are saying that is the worst that can happen, anything else that results should be better - i.e. getting a fast break.
That's why I said in my earlier post that if the disadvantaged player is going to get clocked as he is picking up the ball on the play-on, I whistle it and give him the clean restart he deserves. It sounds like that is your philosophy as well. Correct interpretation?

[LaxRef]

hu?? LBT = no time.


We talked about this not long ago:

A1 pushes B1 during a loose ball, play on. B1 turns and slashes A1 during the live ball. These are simultaneous fouls, with the team entitled to possession committing a personal foul. Thus, everyone involved serves penalty time, A1 serving 0:30 and B1 serving 1:00, with the first 30 seconds NR.

See:

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=19393

[eme]

A1 pushes B1 during a loose ball, play on. B1 turns and slashes A1 during the live ball. These are simultaneous fouls, with the team entitled to possession committing a personal foul. Thus, everyone involved serves penalty time, A1 serving 0:30 and B1 serving 1:00, with the first 30 seconds NR.


I have never seen this done or have ever done the above. Not to resurrect the old thread (which I read), but I would just go with the one-minute slash. All your arguments to do the above seem valid...but why haven't I ever seen it done?

[LaxRef]

I have never seen this done or have ever done the above. Not to resurrect the old thread (which I read), but I would just go with the one-minute slash. All your arguments to do the above seem valid...but why haven't I ever seen it done?

I'll give my stock answer: because nobody understands the simultaneous foul rule. And that's because the rule is confusing and counterintuitive.

Face it: if you follow the letter of the law, if both guys have an illegal faceoff position, you're supposed to award the ball by alternate possession. Does anyone do this?

I've never enforced it (the loose push/slash scenario) this way either, although that may be in part because I just became aware of this aspect of the rule. I think it would be hard to sell the call, since it makes no sense, so I'm not sure I would call it this way in a game. But, given what 7.6 says, the loose-ball pusher is supposed to serve 30 seconds.

[eme]

I think when they say ALL FOULS they mean all time-serving fouls on both teams shall be simultaneous, etc.

[LaxRef]

I think when they say ALL FOULS they mean all time-serving fouls on both teams shall be simultaneous, etc.

That doesn't really make sense, since then they'd be saying "If the team in possession (or entitled to possession) commits any personal foul, all players committing time-serving fouls will serve penalty time."

Another possible interpretation is:

b. Penalty time:
1. If there is no play-on or flag down in effect and if all fouls are technical, the fouls cancel.
2. If the team in possession (or entitled to possession) commits:
(a) Only technical fouls, no penalty time will be served by that team.
(b) Any personal foul, all players [on that team] involved will serve penalty time.

But, of course, that's not what it says.

Of course, if you interpret it that way, then you have to make a crazy ruling here:

A1 slashes B1, flag down. B2 slashes A2 at the same time B1 wards. RULING: A1 serves 1:00. B2 serves 1:00. B1 serves 30 seconds. All penalties are NR.