Dirty tricks to watch for

[LaxRef]

You probably already know this, and some of the other refs and coaches will too.

If you can, watch the scoring team players as they shake hands and congratulate each other after a goal.

I've seen more than one stick passed off to a teammate during the handshake.

Laxfan25 also mentioned the player that had one stick inspected before the game, then went and got his illegal stick for actually playing the game.

All of this got me to thinking that we should start a list of some of the dirty tricks we've seen or heard about so we can make officials aware of them.

Oh, here's another one: the kid with a string tied to his helmet and stuck in his mouth, with no mouthpiece attached to it.

[tiplax]

This is old but when you have an illegl pocket you pull the bottom string tight and run it through a side wall hole when they check ur stick

[laxfan25]

This is old but when you have an illegl pocket you pull the bottom string tight and run it through a side wall hole when they check ur stick
Of course if the ref has called for this stick and you see them touch anything on the head, it's an automatic USC plus any other stick violation penalty!

[mdawg12087]

i had a kid that played attack, and at the end of the quarter, hed be inches from the sub box. He'd go to the becnh, put down his stick, and pull out a new one, exact same shaft and head. The stringing was the same materail, and head color was the same. One time a coach requested his stick, and there was a face off about three seconds to end quater, and the coach tried to sub him out before, so i wouldnt be able to check his stick. I made the kid drop his sitkc in the substituiton box, and as assumed, it was illegal in a few ways: pocket too deep, throat pinched too much, shaft two incehs too short. He got the 3minute locked in. I told a few other refs about this situation, and sure enough the kid was called on four times throughout the year.

[Snake~eyes]

Of course if the ref has called for this stick and you see them touch anything on the head, it's an automatic USC plus any other stick violation penalty!
Is it a USC? :naughty:

[LaxRef]

Of course if the ref has called for this stick and you see them touch anything on the head, it's an automatic USC plus any other stick violation penalty!

It's unclear whether it's really a USC. It says 1:00 NR, but so are illegal gloves and that's not a USC. I think it should be, and I'm submitting that suggestion to the NFHS. Of course, I think pulling the goal over your head to prevent a goal should be an ejection foul, but the rules say otherwise.

(Of course, it only really matters in NFHS, where two USCs get you ejected.)

[surveyor12]

One time a coach requested his stick, and there was a face off about three seconds to end quater, and the coach tried to sub him out before, so i wouldnt be able to check his stick.

You can check ANY players stick, be it a player on the field or a sub sitting on the bench. We usually check field players as they are more likely to have an illeglal stick, but a starter may be on the bench at the time of the random check. So, go ahead and grab any player's crosse; they're all fair game.

Have you been told yuo can't check a guy on the bench by somebody? If so, they were giving you bad advice.

[surveyor12]

On a random check, do you check all the equipment, or just the stick?

[laxfan25]

Is it a USC? :naughty:
I was just going from my memory, knowing that it was a 1 min NR. Looking in both the NCAA and NFHS books, and it just has it as an AR under illegal crosse, not under USC, so I would say that it is not a USC foul, just the same penalty.
What is also interesting is that the NFHS book specifically says if the player scored a goal before the check occurred, the goal is removed. NCAA book does not have that stipulation, so I think we're in a grey area there!

[Snake~eyes]

I was just going from my memory, knowing that it was a 1 min NR. Looking in both the NCAA and NFHS books, and it just has it as an AR under illegal crosse, not under USC, so I would say that it is not a USC foul, just the same penalty.
What is also interesting is that the NFHS book specifically says if the player scored a goal before the check occurred, the goal is removed. NCAA book does not have that stipulation, so I think we're in a grey area there!
The book does not specifiy if its a USC or not. Only reason this matters is does it count towards their two USC, I had this happen last week and we didn't specify it as a USC, just 1-minute NR.

And there's no gray area. The goal does not come off in NCAA, it does come off in NFHS though. Check out a quiz I posted here: http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=19934

[laxfan25]

On a random check, do you check all the equipment, or just the stick?
All equipment in HS. In NCAA, the first and third are just stick checks now I believe.
Also, you can check any stick in the bench area, whether it has been in the game or not, even the coaches stick.

[mdawg12087]

It was brought to my attention that the kid was switching the stick as soon as he got to the bench. So if i just asked to see his stick while he was on the bench, between quarters, he wouldve had a different stick.

[laxfan25]

The book does not specifiy if its a USC or not. Only reason this matters is does it count towards their two USC, I had this happen last week and we didn't specify it as a USC, just 1-minute NR.

And there's no gray area. The goal does not come off in NCAA, it does come off in NFHS though. Check out a quiz I posted here: http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=19934
If we're assuming that there is no grey area in NCAA because it doesn't specify that, I would posit that it is also definitely NOT an USC since the books don't specify it as such. I wonder if we'll see a new A.R in the NCAA book next year taking away the goal in that instance, since it is an admission of guilt as someone said in your quiz. An illegal stick, whether pocket or altered, would remove the goal. It would seem to be a natural to copy the NFHS wording in this case. That would be different!
Good quiz by the way!

[LaxRef]

It was brought to my attention that the kid was switching the stick as soon as he got to the bench. So if i just asked to see his stick while he was on the bench, between quarters, he wouldve had a different stick.

You can, however, perform a check at any time. We are told to do "at least" one per half, which implies that we can do more if we want. In this case, where you know the guy is trying to pull a fast one, knowing that we normally only check after the first and third, you can go ahead and check him another time (during a called or injury timeout is a good time to do it so you don't slow down the game; also, have your partner check someone from the other team to avoid complaints of biasedness).

As to the equipment checks, we check everything in NFHS all the time. In NCAA, after the first and third we check sticks only. If a coach requests, we check everything!

[LaxRef]

If we're assuming that there is no grey area in NCAA because it doesn't specify that, I would posit that it is also definitely NOT an USC since the books don't specify it as such.

That is exactly the way the logic goes!

BTW, pretty much the only place where things not specifically stated as illegal are illegal fall under that "any other act considered unsportsmanlike by the officials" clause.

[mrmccool]

Dirty Trick or cleverness: I have used elastic/stretchy strings before. Not estensively, cuz they don't last long, but anyway. When someone has a pocket that can stretch at least an inch or more on it's own when cradling, but then return to it's legal state for stick checks, what do you do when you see what's happening? Also, does this thead only refer to sticks? Or are we talking about dirty tricks in general... like putting your but end in someones ribs?

[LaxRef]

Dirty Trick or cleverness: I have used elastic/stretchy strings before. Not estensively, cuz they don't last long, but anyway. When someone has a pocket that can stretch at least an inch or more on it's own when cradling, but then return to it's legal state for stick checks, what do you do when you see what's happening? Also, does this thead only refer to sticks? Or are we talking about dirty tricks in general... like putting your but end in someones ribs?

I really don't know how to answer the elastic question. It could perhaps be ruled "any other act considered unsportsmanlike by the officials."

A butt end to the ribs is more of a cheap shot than a trick. I'm looking for things players do to try to get around the rules (and not just regarding sticks, but it seems like that's where players focus a lot of the energy from their cheatin' hearts).

[When It Cuts]

And there's no gray area. The goal does not come off in NCAA, it does come off in NFHS though. Check out a quiz I posted here: http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=19934
About the NCAA ruling; I read that quiz and saw LaxRef's post that states that the goal still stands in NCAA if an illegal crosse is found after a goal is scored during the last seconds of a quarter. What if it wasn't the last seconds of the quarter, and the opposing coach called for a stick check, and the crosse was found to be illegal? The goal gets taken away correct?

[Snake~eyes]

About the NCAA ruling; I read that quiz and saw LaxRef's post that states that the goal still stands in NCAA if an illegal crosse is found after a goal is scored during the last seconds of a quarter. What if it wasn't the last seconds of the quarter, and the opposing coach called for a stick check, and the crosse was found to be illegal? The goal gets taken away correct?
No, that's not the case. It is always taken off the board if the stick is found to be illegal. If the stick is found to be illegal after a goal and before the next whistle then you take the goal off the board. We are talking about if a player adjusts his stick before handing it to the official, NFHS it comes off, NCAA it stays.

A.R. 6. A1 scores. Before the next whistle, it is discovered that A1 was playing with an
illegal crosse. RULING: Goal does not count. A1 serves a one- or three-minute nonreleasable
penalty.

[laxfan25]

About the NCAA ruling; I read that quiz and saw LaxRef's post that states that the goal still stands in NCAA if an illegal crosse is found after a goal is scored during the last seconds of a quarter. What if it wasn't the last seconds of the quarter, and the opposing coach called for a stick check, and the crosse was found to be illegal? The goal gets taken away correct?
I don't see the reference in the quiz thread. Anytime you have a stick check, after a goal and before the next resumption of play, the goal is disallowed if there was an illegal stick. This would include the coach's request.
Question for LaxRef - Waht if a goal is scored as the 1st or 3rd quarter expires, and we check the scorers stick as our random check. If it is illegal, my feeling is that the goal would be removed, since we haven't whistled to start the next quarter yet. Agree?

[LCNlaxman]

Is it a USC? :naughty:


Could it be ruled as Illegal Procedure? I'd think yes because when refs check something, they check it AS IS, not "hey, make sure your stick is legal then let me give it a stick check."

[laxfan25]

Could it be ruled as Illegal Procedure? I'd think yes because when refs check something, they check it AS IS, not "hey, make sure your stick is legal then let me give it a stick check."
No, that would be a technical foul. this is a very specific 1 min NR that is listed under illegal crosse. If I was making the call, I would assess the penalty and explain that it was for "touching the head after a request for inspection".

[surveyor12]

I don't see the reference in the quiz thread. Anytime you have a stick check, after a goal and before the next resumption of play, the goal is disallowed if there was an illegal stick. This would include the coach's request.
Question for LaxRef - Waht if a goal is scored as the 1st or 3rd quarter expires, and we check the scorers stick as our random check. If it is illegal, my feeling is that the goal would be removed, since we haven't whistled to start the next quarter yet. Agree?

Yes, so long as play has not resumed, it is disallowed. However, if the goal is scored with more than one second left, then there probaby will be a face off and the random stick check will not take the goal away now since there has been a live ball since the goal was scored.

[creaseattack]

I actually make sure my crosse is legal before every game its not that felling like ow no what if I get caught its that feeling of sitting in the box have you coach screaming down your neck kids take it from me cheating is not the answer also what do you guys think abou the pulse and if the band made the pocket illegal alot of people would be mad at brine.

[LaxRef]

Question for LaxRef - Waht if a goal is scored as the 1st or 3rd quarter expires, and we check the scorers stick as our random check. If it is illegal, my feeling is that the goal would be removed, since we haven't whistled to start the next quarter yet. Agree?

We've addressed this once or twice. See what you think and ask me if you have questions:

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=16688

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=16725

[smooth87]

have anyone seen or done a stick check on a d pole?

[cslaxplaya11]

i have had my longpole checked in a game befor thats because i ran down the feild and my stick was hit like 10 times and the ball dident fall out. it was leagal but real close.

[cslaxplaya11]

to make that even cheeper take off the butt and wrap tape around 1 or 2 times and cover the the bottom with tape also so it cant be called illegal

[LaxRef]

have anyone seen or done a stick check on a d pole?

There was a LSM who was facing off and scoring, so my partner checked it, and it was illegal.

[laxfan25]

have anyone seen or done a stick check on a d pole?
Yes, more so because the pocket looked really baggy. Doesn't happen too often.

[wilsontopowell]

there was a LSM who was taking faceoffs and winning a lot of them and had eally good ballhandling and refs checked his stick and it was way to pinched. if you put the head upside down the ball wouldnt fall out

[LaxRef]

there was a LSM who was taking faceoffs and winning a lot of them and had eally good ballhandling and refs checked his stick and it was way to pinched. if you put the head upside down the ball wouldnt fall out

Did the officials check it, or did you just know it was illegal?

[CuseLax18]

Did the officials check it, or did you just know it was illegal?

It says, the REFS check it.

[wilsontopowell]

Did the officials check it, or did you just know it was illegal?

haha both

[LaxRef]

It says, the REFS check it.

I meant to say, "Did the coaches request that it be checked, or did the officials decide to check it," but I wasn't clear. Sorry.

[eamiddy16]

correct me if im wrong but all because a player can pick up the ball in the back of his head doesnt make his stick illegal or to pinched it just makes his stick no longer legal for face-offs

[Snake~eyes]

correct me if im wrong but all because a player can pick up the ball in the back of his head doesnt make his stick illegal or to pinched it just makes his stick no longer legal for face-offs
Not true in NFHS. It doesn't make it illegal at all, but if the ball gets stuck in the back of your stick on a faceoff it is illegal procedure, just loss of posession.

[surveyor12]

No, it usually just awards the ball to the opponent on that particular face off (see comment below**). It does not make it illegal for ALL face offs. However, the ref will be watching carefully for it to occur again. The rules don't address the ball getting stuck in the BACK of the head, only the front. But if it gets stuck in the back, it may very well be pinched, so that it gets stuck in the front as well. And THAT'S illegal. So watch out if it gets stuck in the back.

** When it gest stuck in the back of your head, I don't know that any rule states it goes to your opponent, other than to use the "witholding the ball" rule. But you could make a case that it is caught in your uniform or equipment, in which case it is awarded by AP. I don't know if there is a case about this. Very curious. Can anybody cite a rule stating it goes to the opposition?

[Snake~eyes]

Can anybody cite a rule stating it goes to the opposition?
There is no rule in the rulebook, NFHS sent out a rule update on this stating specifically that it should be called illegal procedure. We will probably see it as a change in the rulebook, atleast we can only hope.

[WHEELAX2]

The players are the enemy

[LaxRef]

The players are the enemy

I'm not sure where you're going with that thought. I don't think players are the enemy. OTOH, I think if there are players who've come up with little tricks designed to fool the officials so they can intentionally cheat, it behooves us as officials to learn these tricks so we can catch the cheaters.

[eamiddy16]

thank u for clearing that up i was not sure if it would just be a loss of possesion or u were no longer alound to take face offs with that stick.. but in some cases the stringing my cause the ball to get stuck in the back of the head for example depeding on how i string the sidewalls on my stick the ball will get stuck

[WHEELAX2]

i would say the vast majority of players are not pulling things like what you describe

[The Playmaker]

ive done SOME dirty stuff, but some of them are pretty smart if u think about it. but the smartest/dirtiest thing ive done has got to be checking a goalie into the goal or just a late hit.

[LaxRef]

i would say the vast majority of players are not pulling things like what you describe

True. But the vast majority of people aren't murderers, either. Does that mean the police shouldn't bother trying to catch murderers? It's an analagous situation.

As an official, I'm supposed to enforce the rules. If people are coming up with sneaky ways to cheat, we should be aware of those methods so we can put a stop to them. And the rules committee apparently agrees, having added specific rules about adjucting the crosse after an official asks for it.

[PuLsE_SpEeD]

Let's see, dirty tricks that I've done:

Switched sticks during stick check (I have an illegal pocket on one)
Wearing gloves with holes
Wearing a mouthguard strap, but no physical mouthguard

As a ref I'd look out for the mouthguard straps but no moutguards, it's actually is pretty common around here.

[laxfan25]

The players are the enemy
I certainly hope you're not a referee if you bring that kind of attitude to the field! The players are our customers! Without them, we have no reason for being lacrosse refs - duh! Our job, in serving our customers, is to provide them with a safe and fair environment in which neither team is getting an unfair advantage, where their skills and teamwork determine the outcome of the game.
We enforce the rules as given to us, hopefully in an even-handed manner and with consistency throughout the game. I certainly don't view the players under my supervision as the enemy, just enthusiastic participants who hopefully will love and Honor The Game through fair play and good sportsmanship.

[Rubberband Man]

Let's see, dirty tricks that I've done:

Switched sticks during stick check (I have an illegal pocket on one)
Wearing gloves with holes
Wearing a mouthguard strap, but no physical mouthguard

As a ref I'd look out for the mouthguard straps but no moutguards, it's actually is pretty common around here.


Our goalie has played for the past 2 seasons with a "tape" mouthguard, and I did it in hockey for a while. Just put a piece of tape folded in half in your mouth and most refs don't think twice.

[LaxRef]

Our goalie has played for the past 2 seasons with a "tape" mouthguard, and I did it in hockey for a while. Just put a piece of tape folded in half in your mouth and most refs don't think twice.
I doubt that would work with me; I check the goalies for proper equipment at the lineup.

[surveyor12]

I don't understand the reluctance to wear mouthguards. Is it the issue about blocking breathing? Why give up the protection unless there is a major downside? I don't quite get it. I always wore one and it never bothered me, and the guards today fit MUCH better than those I wore.