Old School Lax...

[Dman15]

Just wondering if any old school laxers might be able to help me out...

I'm doing a project on how lax equipment has changed over time and i cant really find a whole lot online...

i know that stx introduced the first fiberglass head/wooden shaft combo in 1968 and then came out with the laser in 1983

the Excaliber came out in 1985 and the edge came out in 94...

after 94, im pretty set...but if anyone could help me out with those in-between heads, that would be great...or if anyone can think of any other heads that they think revolutionized the game...

Thanks,
Dman15

[CDLax2]

you could do the fuse or the prophecy for the rubber... or the liquid for the floating sidewall

[Dman15]

ya, i got those ones, and im gonna talk about the edge X and the hype too, its mostly the pre-edge stuff im having trouble finding...

[CDLax2]

there wasnt a ton o stuff...that far back... except the conversion from wood to plastic

[joeyOlax]

throw in the laser hi-wall.... best stick ever
and correct me if im wrong but the "raptor" was the first curved head and it was made by warrior.... ??

[CDLax2]

raptor was stx.. i think

[livin4lax09]

get a "play" catalog from commonwealth lacrosse. It has the history of equipment in it. It's pretty much a magazine and a comlax catalog in one.

[stegmakk]

dont forget about the transition to aluminum shafts...then graphite/titanium came out...now there are so many shafts too...

[Alex]

First curved head was the Cobra by Warrior, in around 93. The Raptor was STX's copy of the Cobra, and Warrior sued them (sound familiar?) and won, forcing it off the market. It looks very much like the X2 however. For heads, I know about the early 80s onward, in the 70s I believe the Superlight 2 with the aluminum shaft was a big step in lightness. Excalibur was the first open sidewall head, then until the Edge there were just variations on the open sidewall, the Viper is the lightest stick in the game still I believe, came out in 88 and was basically an Excalibur with a full 2 in sidewall, the Oz was Brine's competitor, the Edge in late 94/early 95 was the last major head revolution in the game to date.

For shafts, Warrior's introduction of the titanium shaft revolutionized the game. D-men could now totally handle the ball and throw many more takeaway checks. It was the first derivative from the aluminum/wood shafts of the day, I think it was in 91/92 but I'm fuzzy on that date. The next trend was started by Brine in 95 with the Brine Kevlar, IMHO the best shaft ever but all the D shafts broke so they took it off the market. Other companies had various composite shafts to try to match its popularity, but none had quite the quality.

If you need more after like 95 let me know, but you probably can go from there.

[BuckWyld]

the excalibur was replaced by the viper,

[bigdumplings]

the turbo (stx) viper,(brine) mx, MD Sam, old school warrior patriot brine "woodie" warrior whiplash

[RYU]

Alex, you are mostly right. The Warrior Cobra came out in 1994 to compete with Brine's Edge. Flip Naumburg of Rock-It Pocket was instrumental in designing the Cobra with Warrior. You can ask him all about it if you want. The Raptor and X2 both share the Excalibur's open wall trestle design but aside from that have a lot different playing characteristics.

Through the 1980s, the STX progression went from Barney -> Sam -> Laserlite -> Laser Hi-wall -> Excalibur. In 1990, the Turbo ushered in the new generation of open & full 2" sidewall sticks. The Turbo proved highly successful, and in 1992 STX released the Viper (a lighter version of the Turbo) and the Dominator (a heavier duty version of the Turbo that never really caught on).

Brine, as long as I can recall, has always had a lot more offerings than STX, but many of these bit the dust quickly (which still holds true today). But the bread & butter of the Brine line in the 1980s was something like Superlite -> Magnum -> Superlite 2 -> Shotgun -> Air Attack. I am a lot fuzzier on Brine in the 80s. Brine's answer to the STX Turbo came in 1991 and was dubbed the M1 Magic. In 1992, it's brothers came out: the MX (a low wall version comparable to the Excalibur) and the MD (a heavier defensive version). The OZ was released in 1993 (a Brine version of the Turbo) and then the Edge in 1994, an offset version of the OZ.

According to STX's website, their first plastic double wall heads weren't commercially available until 1970. The ones before that were prototypes. Aluminum shafts were also introduced in 1973 by STX. And sometime in late 70s/early 80s, the octagonal shaft became standard over the round shaft. The two main head innovations of the 1980s were the 2" sidewall (Laser Hi-wall and Superlite 2 -- I don't know which came first) and open sidewall (Excalibur).

David Morrow introduced titanium shafts around 1991-92 while he was still playing at Princeton. I believe they weren't commercially available until 1993 when Warrior was formed. There were many talented D-men who could 'handle the ball well and throw many take-away checks' even before Ti shafts were introduced. Anyone who has seen Dave Petriemala play at JHU will tell you that. The biggest asset of Ti shafts was their durability, although lightness over long wood shafts is up there too. In short, Ti shafts and offset heads were the big breakthroughs of the 90s.

Couple other quick tidbits: wide strung (5-6 diamond) traditional pockets with hockey lace shooting strings were popularized by the Gait Brothers who played for SU from 1987-1990. I'd estimate from the mid-1980s to mid-1990s, players were roughly 80% trad/20% mesh. Casey Powell (SU 95-98) and his brothers popularized hard mesh pockets with inverted V shooting laces. Now you see players about 20% trad/80% mesh. This varies a lot from area to area.

If you're serious about researching the evolution of men's lax sticks, you should contact the respective manufacturers. I'd bet they would provide you with all the info you could handle.

[Alex]

I stand corrected, Ryu indeed knows his stuff. Did you know all that from memory, or did you get the info from somewhere? I'm always curious on these things (lax equipment history etc).

[RYU]

Alex

Not to brag, but yes, that was pretty much all from memory. I did go to www.stxlacrosse.com to double check some of the dates. I admit it - I am a gearhead! Old Bacharach catalogs are like Playboys to me. I have every one going back to 1992. I even have old Ulman catalogs from the early 90s. If you don't know of Ulman Lacrosse, then you are definately a youngster.

[laxster69]

There were just as many if not more variations on wood sticks as there are modern sticks today.

I don't consider any stick that has a plastic or whatever material head on it to be 'old school'.

A lot of players took a long time to switch to using a field stick for box lacrosse because it was though that only wussies and prima donnas would do that. Funny how times change.

One thing that aluminum/graphite shafts have done for the defensive side of box lacrosse is that it has made players that don't know how to cross check properly because the sticks are too light. Instead you get a lot more slashing and high sticking, poking, etc and not nearly as mush actual man on man contact. Offensive players can now pretty much get a free ride through the middle in box lacrosse and it's mostly because of the sticks we use now.

Some of our players here in box lacrosse still use the 'woodies' but they bring them out for the playoffs because they hurt a lot more when you whack someone, I kid you not.

The biggest brand name of woodies that I can remember was 'Ettiene Martin' but everyone know the the 'Logan' brand was the best made stick overall and was the most coveted.

Local or regional manufacturers would also produce stick but not as many as Ettienne Martin or Logan who still used real 'cat gut' for the wall.

No one stick was ever the same and you really had to know how to string a stick back then as well as know how to apply fiberglass in the event your stick cracked or broke.

I still have a couple of old woodies in my parents' basement.

[Alex]

Haha noway, I keep all the old Bacharach catalogs too. I feel old compared to some people on this board but I guess I must be a youngster, since Ulman was just before I got into lacrosse. I may vie for a photocopy of those old catalogs someday btw :P

[RYU]

If you're familiar with Ulman, then you're probably not quite a youngster. I think anyone on this board who is of legal drinking age is relatively an old fart. NKOTB today don't even know what a Bacharach helmet is, or Crooked Arrow shaft, or what it's like to play with a straight head. Bonus points if you know how Jim Ulman helped his UVA team win the NCAA Championship (aside from playing that is).

[pissedofflaxdud]

US lacrosse did an article on this in 02, I think. You could contact them for more specific info. You can also go to the us patent office to see the date that the innovations were patented. http://www.uspto.gov/

[BuckWyld]

heh, i guess I must be an old fart, I have had a few crooked arrow's and I just retired my bacharah helmet. I dont remember Ulman, but all of my early equipment was handme down stuff or bough at a local store.

[Alex]

Not to reminisce TOO much, but yeah actually I kept playing with a Baltimore Classic Bacharach until like 2000. I still think they're more protective, I remember when the original Cascade came out there were rumors/reports of more people getting their bell rung. It's so weird that I look at a tournament shirt back in 96 (please say it wasn't that long ago), and the lax guy pictured on it is wearing a Bacharach helmet, it scares me sometimes. And remembering around that time as well when the original Cascade came out only 2 or 3 people on the team had them, and THEY were the weird looking ones with some funky helmet, like you would be now with the old school variety. I don't know too much about Jim Ulman other than he was the GM of the Thunder in the MILL apparently. I think the MILL name was a lot cooler name than the NLL myself, but maybe it was just their good marketing of the league in the early years. I've been looking for a cheap Crooked Arrow actually to put on a Turbo strung traditional for midfield (well I prefer the STX ripoff one cause it looked cooler :P), when I came home to Boston I looked for one at a Play-it-again sports where they sometimes have old relics but it was not what I was lookin for. Oh well, hehe.

[BuckWyld]

Alex there is a company called Chilly Sticks on Cape Cod that still makes wooden shafts. I have a d-length one, I have not played with it much but it seems pretty nice. IT is solid ash. they make a few different types. and they are pretty cheap about 20 for a/m and 25 for d. I think you can order from their site or from ComLax.

[stegmakk]

I remember the Ulman catalogs...I still have my old bacharach helmet which I finally retired last year...
crooked arrow...i remember them well...that is one thing I am surprised at nowadays...the fact dpoles are getting lighter too as are A and M poles...Igranted a wood shaft will probably break easily...but man those can lay a hurting on attackmen more than any alloy

[BuckWyld]

I think I am going to use my wood shaft for at least a few games this season, and I will probably buy one in A/M length for box next winter.

[stegmakk]

I think Im gonna pick one up before the next box session starts...
thanks for the idea buck...

[BuckWyld]

http://www.chillystx.com

they are cheaper than I thought, 17.50 for a shorty

[RockStar]

Originally posted by laxster69
......Some of our players here in box lacrosse still use the 'woodies' but they bring them out for the playoffs because they hurt a lot more when you whack someone, I kid you not.

The biggest brand name of woodies that I can remember was 'Ettiene Martin' but everyone know the the 'Logan' brand was the best made stick overall and was the most coveted.......No one stick was ever the same and you really had to know how to string a stick back then as well as know how to apply fiberglass in the event your stick cracked or broke....

Thought WLA got rid of woodies a while back??

There's a few OLA defensemen that still use them for their headcracking power, but no attackers to my knowledge.

The big boys in the east for woodsticks are Mohawk (now Mitchell Brothers) and Patterson. Etienne and sons may still be around, but I'm not sure.

[Fogo 8]

i just bought 2 woodies off ebay for 30

[Alex]

Yeah I have seen Chilly Stix, thanks for the website, but I'm elitist and I need the retro appeal of the Crooked Arrow :P Although soon enough I'll prob grab the CS anyways.

[RYU]

The subject of this thread is "Old School Lax..." Alex, so feel free to reminisce away.

Regarding Jim Ulman, he was quite the stick stringer. The story is he strung all the sticks on his 1972 UVA NCAA championship team. When Ulman Lax was one of the premiere lax stores in the country, Ulman had many innovative stick stringing features for trad and mesh pockets. I liked Jim Ulman's philosphy that it is more important to have a pocket strung carefully with the knots and strings at even tension, throwstrings graduated, etc than it is to have something look cool and needlessly comples (e.g. Homegrown).

I have an old Bacharach helmet that is at least 20 years old but in good shape, and it is the best. I haven't handled a CPX yet, but my old Bacharach is lighter than any Cascade I've ever picked up. All the kids I coach can't believe how light and flexy it is. It's more comfortable too; I never found the Cascade to fit my head well. But of course, it is not NOCSAE approved for HS and collegiate play.

I also have a bombproof STX branded Crooked Arrow. It is odd in that it has the doweled end (round) and goalie length. You can occasionally find Crooked Arrows on ebay.

[876GEL15]

You might have over looked this head. I think Brine made it during the early-mid 80's. I can not remember the name, but it looked like a mini-goalie stick, but was made espically for defense.

I think the name of the head was the Brine D-80, it was about 9-10" the entire length of the head. Does anyone else have, remember this head?

[madzebra]

I would definitely put in the time when the long sticks were first used... they definitely changed the game.

Also, the evolution of the helmet.