Bush? or not?

[bloodilax977]

like bush or not?
let me be the first to say i don't

[dpolehh21]

i dont think this thread is a good idea. No one who likes him will be convinced not 5to as will those who don't like him. However the political opinions of people who are for the majority in high school has no matter.

[LymanLax28]

i dont think this thread is a good idea. No one who likes him will be convinced not 5to as will those who don't like him. However the political opinions of people who are for the majority in high school has no matter.
I agree. I voted, but I don't feel like arguing.

[bloodilax977]

alright
i don't know how to end a thread but anyone who wants to can. like a mod or somethin. my bad everybody. sorry..

[ColtsLax]

also, you cant ask a question like this with only two choices. Im a repub, but i disagree with some of his stuff sometimes. so i cant say definitivley

[laxfolife24]

i dont mind him.

[Conrice]

neither....

i love him physcally, but i dont agree with everything socially

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

i dont understand how when every one of these threads pops up, it's usually split, yet when we get into any kind of political discussion here, the only people on the liberal side are me... and me. ocassionaly someone else will feel courageous and jump in...

[mclax]

this thread is pointless

[aussielax]

i dont understand how when every one of these threads pops up, it's usually split, yet when we get into any kind of political discussion here, the only people on the liberal side are me... and me. ocassionaly someone else will feel courageous and jump in...

Hey dude i've got your back, after you desteroyed NLLstorm and his anti-aussie comments.

However yeah i do feel that most of liberal kids don't speek out when they see people preaching there conservative veiws on TLF.

[mclax]

good points

[aussielax]

to me conservatives are the most annoying closed minded people ever. i have a couple in my family and i just want to beat them up seriously. but yea ppl probably don't argue their political views because they're afraid of being shot down and being "owned" or "pwnd" but w/e..

yeah i feel the same way about con's. I think a lot of people don't make there voice heard because yes they are afraid of being shot down, especialy on TLF were you have some conservatives that are college educated people, who do know how to maniplate and twist facts in there favour.

[mrmccool]

and it's mutual, you should stop posting here for a comment like that. causing physical harm over political viewpoints? how ignorant to think that violence solves anything, esspecially the way you righteous liberalas whine about the wrong war in iraq. cute avatar, by the way. why did u crop out the other boy?

[NLLStormCA]

if you have seen some of my other posts...HARDCORE republican, alot of pple dont like me for that...but whatever

[mclax]

and it's mutual, you should stop posting here for a comment like that. causing physical harm over political viewpoints? how ignorant to think that violence solves anything, esspecially the way you righteous liberalas whine about the wrong war in iraq. cute avatar, by the way. why did u crop out the other boy?

good point

[mrmccool]

i used to respect you man i think you do some sick dye jobs and what not i dont know why u took that personally and as for the war in iraq i actually am all for it. we did what we had to. but my grandmother and whole side of my family is conservative and they whine about music, and tv, and how girls dress.. its so annoying but w/e man thanks for that avatar comment that was cool man :thumbsdow
don't rip on conservatives and think you have my back, man. I work in DC at the national republican senatorial comittee and i don't take that lightly. and honestly, do YOU take your avatar seriously?

[mclax]

well weather or not i agree with all of Bush's decisions he is the president of the united states and i respect him and trust that he will only make decisions that will better our country and keep us safe and united. he is a good president. the presidents job is to keep us safe. and after 9/11 i think he has done a pretty good job. im sorry to mrmcool. your job is important to our country and im sorry we disagree on politics and all of the stuff i said.

[unta8]

LOVE HIM LOVE HIM LOVE HIM LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE.

[laxrat22]

you work there but your not a senator so ur obvisously some kind of gopher for some republican and your probably all over his c&B's, raising money and handing out posters so that some day when your old and watching cspan you can say "gee i sure did alot at the national republican senatorial comittee look at the diff i made" well guess what you didn't make a diff all that http://www.nrsc.org/ or the national repulican senatorial comittee does is raise money so that when Jon Kyl goes on vacation hes got a ocean view and right by the dock where his yacht is. and he chuckles and says "this is the life i am an .... but who cares!" and i don't really care what you think of my avatar at all i figured i'd post a picture of myself since i figured thats what that is for but i guess not.. well i really do not care anymore! ppl like you are so closed minded any the second someone else tries to voice their opinion you take it so personal and make up stupid reasons to become over defensive. im sick of ppl like you on this forum and on that note this is my last post and i retire! you opened my eyes. all i do is argue on this forum because i have to. the second i make a post i have to come back and check how i have to defend myself against another member that doesnt like the post. everthing i said in this post i truely do not mean to you and im sorry it got out of control like this but im sick of it.


im going to like not come on lacrosse forums for like a year.. thanks to some of the friends i made i like ljlax, enjoi, nvrlk, ausielax, orange.. you guys were all pretty cool and thanks for everthing i guess im sick of people on here so im out

did anyone else notice that he did exactly what he was *****ing about: taking a post too seriously and not agreeing with it and coming back wayyyy over defensive. hell i dont know thats the way i took it.

[aussielax]

you work there but your not a senator so ur obvisously some kind of gopher for some republican and your probably all over his c&B's, raising money and handing out posters so that some day when your old and watching cspan you can say "gee i sure did alot at the national republican senatorial comittee look at the diff i made" well guess what you didn't make a diff all that http://www.nrsc.org/ or the national repulican senatorial comittee does is raise money so that when Jon Kyl goes on vacation hes got a ocean view and right by the dock where his yacht is. and he chuckles and says "this is the life i am an .... but who cares!" and i don't really care what you think of my avatar at all i figured i'd post a picture of myself since i figured thats what that is for but i guess not.. well i really do not care anymore! ppl like you are so closed minded any the second someone else tries to voice their opinion you take it so personal and make up stupid reasons to become over defensive. im sick of ppl like you on this forum and on that note this is my last post and i retire! you opened my eyes. all i do is argue on this forum because i have to. the second i make a post i have to come back and check how i have to defend myself against another member that doesnt like the post. everthing i said in this post i truely do not mean to you and im sorry it got out of control like this but im sick of it.


im going to like not come on lacrosse forums for like a year.. thanks to some of the friends i made i like ljlax, enjoi, nvrlk, ausielax, orange.. you guys were all pretty cool and thanks for everthing i guess im sick of people on here so im out


what that's it your quit. Comon dude just coz one person has a go at you isn't a valid reason to throw in the towel.

Hell if i had quit everytime someone had opposed my veiws, i would have quit TLF 20 times over by now.

[Conrice]

mclax, i feel the exact same way about liberals.... i have a bunch of liberals and my family as well, they looked at me like i broke some stupid rule when i told them that i voted for bush, and that i dont go to church....everyone who thinks they are right and isnt willing to listen is closeminded, its not just conservatives or just liberals....its all of you guys that sit here and blindly say "i got your back" when you hear the association of a political party that are closeminded

[AZReDWiNG]

i'm staying out of this one

i dont understand how when every one of these threads pops up, it's usually split, yet when we get into any kind of political discussion here, the only people on the liberal side are me... and me. ocassionaly someone else will feel courageous and jump in...

liar :D

but i'm still staying out of this one

[chslax538]

to me conservatives are the most annoying closed minded people ever. i have a couple in my family and i just want to beat them up seriously. but yea ppl probably don't argue their political views because they're afraid of being shot down and being "owned" or "pwnd" but w/e..


i know your not here to defend yourself but i feel the same way about democrates. Bush isnt the greatest president but he is a good one and on most issues i support him. also not all republicans "whine about girls and tv" so who are the closeminded ones?

[MangOPimP]

i think that liberals who think that conservatives are the most closed minded people :laugh: pretty funny how he yells at someone for doing something he just did. if you didnt care why did you take your avatar down? now shush and let the big boys talk :dummy:
and besides, do you not think if Kerry was in office, he wouldnt have his own 'gophers'? Sure one of them may not make the biggest difference but when all their work is for one reason, they make a difference. They are hired to do the job that is NEEDED to do. until you can tell us about your 'more worthy' job, i would suggest not commenting.

[laxattack8888]

These threads are really problem-starters. See, I am Republican and everything, but I don't 100% agree with Bush like many other people. And as Bush is, he is basicaly a political tool, but that's not to say that Kerry wouldn't be. It's one of those split-vote things, and people's ideals are so differentiated that there really can be no one right or wrong answer. So basicaly unless your related to him you can't love him, and if you don't agree with him, that's not hating. Hating is too strong to use in this context. So I am basicaly neutral.

[mrmccool]

I guess the avatar joke wasnt taken as lightly as intended, but anyway...
I worked on the Presidents Dinner, a fundraiser that raised 21 million dollars for the republican senate campaign side. I was no one's gopher, I took rich people's social security numbers and gave them to the secret service so they could sit next to the president. Now that i think about it, since i've worked there, the republicans have retaken both sides of congress. Now I don't agree with everything they say or do, but I don't think that you can automatically rule out every conservative as closed minded cuz u know a handful of people that criticize tv or whatever. that's awful closed minded right there. theres a side to every argument, it's opinion in most cases. just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean theyre wrong and closed minded cuz they wont see it your way. i agree, you should leave. not because we're closed minded, but because you are too hypocritical to sustain a legit conversation here.

[dpolehh21]

alright again this thread has no point other than give people reasons to hate eachother. mods please close

[bayhawkslax216]

All i´m gonna say is that I´m down volunteering in Argentina and everyone here is so much nicer to me when they learn that even though I´m american, I´m against bush. Its amazing, the only place in the world that likes him is america. And Georgia... I used to get pretty involved in the political debates here, but it was pointless because no one listens to the other side, but only tries to talk over them.... That goes for liberals and conservatives

[PompLax14]

I only like bush if it's shaved.

[RedStormLaxer41]

im not a giant fan of bush at all, i dont really agree with any of his policies either. i think the war in iraq was rushed into completely and we shouldn't have been there in the first place (but thats a problem with the U.S. mentality of "world domination", not necessarily bush) but thats not to say that kerry would have done any better... personally i think kerry would have flopped even more than bush

[laxrat22]

ok i'm going to go in to the idea that bayhawk just brought up. i spent 3 weeks touring europe last summer and i did face some anti-bush criticizm from many europeans, its no secret that they dont support bush over there. for example i stayed with a host family in france and everynight while watching the news they would have an update on john kerry's campaign and from what i could tell it was very positive. and everynight my homestay dad would say in his funny accent "john kerry, next president of united states" and every night i would say "i woudn't say that he has a lot more support in the u.s. than you think." and then he would give me an evil look and accuse me of lying. we had many tour guides who would make anti-bush comments, or some who wore pins that said "europeans for kerry". now coming from a conservative household it bothered me and i realized that the only news they have over there is like cnn, except 10x more liberal, which is kinda hard to believe, so they don't even get to hear the other side. and as i thought about it i realized they can't vote and they are only being exposed to biased media and see it as an outsider looking in and so it didn't really bother me that much. now i'm not trying to say they aren't entitled to their own opinion because everyone is, i'm deffinitly not trying to take aussies right of his own opinion from him. all i'm saying is that people in foreign countries (at least the ones i have visited)are forming their opinon from the biased government controlled media (france, germany, and now spain mainly).

and i agree with pomp bush is much better shaved

[AZReDWiNG]

ok i'm going to go in to the idea that bayhawk just brought up. i spent 3 weeks touring europe last summer and i did face some anti-bush criticizm from many europeans, its no secret that they dont support bush over there. for example i stayed with a host family in france and everynight while watching the news they would have an update on john kerry's campaign and from what i could tell it was very positive. and everynight my homestay dad would say in his funny accent "john kerry, next president of united states" and every night i would say "i woudn't say that he has a lot more support in the u.s. than you think." and then he would give me an evil look and accuse me of lying. we had many tour guides who would make anti-bush comments, or some who wore pins that said "europeans for kerry". now coming from a conservative household it bothered me and i realized that the only news they have over there is like cnn, except 10x more liberal, which is kinda hard to believe, so they don't even get to hear the other side. and as i thought about it i realized they can't vote and they are only being exposed to biased media and see it as an outsider looking in and so it didn't really bother me that much. now i'm not trying to say they aren't entitled to their own opinion because everyone is, i'm deffinitly not trying to take aussies right of his own opinion from him. all i'm saying is that people in foreign countries (at least the ones i have visited)are forming their opinon from the biased government controlled media (france, germany, and now spain mainly).

and i agree with pomp bush is much better shaved

I'll rip you apart later, but France, Germany, and Spain are all democratic. No media is state-controlled. Just so you know.

And Europeans don't like us because we try to play world police.

[MangOPimP]

NO europeans? Britain's Prime Minister does. Is it really everyone else hates US, the U.S.A, and Bush? I think not. I just think that as the saying goes, "the squeaky *insert whatever you have heard* gets the oil/grease/care*. There isnt a reason for supporters of Bush to go protesting BUSH IS GREAT! HE IS AWSOME! when he is already in authority. The reason we here of the protests against him is because they have a reason to protest because something they dont agree with is in authority.

[smooth87]

bushless is how i like it

[lacrossefanatic]

oh god I have so much to say about bush its not even funny. You ppl are blind! In my mind bush is a criminal he kill soooooooo many civiliens in Iraq.... Omg I could say so much but I know there will be too many arguments etc. So I'll just leave it at I hate him and well the US government... and a bunch of other governments as well. Its amazing the world still goes round in round cuz the choas is poring all over.

[laxrat22]

I'll rip you apart later, but France, Germany, and Spain are all democratic. No media is state-controlled. Just so you know.

And Europeans don't like us because we try to play world police.

hey man i'm just sharing what i have experienced and since i've been there i know what its like. thats just what it seems like.

[PompLax14]

oh god I have so much to say about bush its not even funny. You ppl are blind! In my mind bush is a criminal he kill soooooooo many civiliens in Iraq.... Omg I could say so much but I know there will be too many arguments etc. So I'll just leave it at I hate him and well the US government... and a bunch of other governments as well. Its amazing the world still goes round in round cuz the choas is poring all over.

Dude. Spelling and grammar, then come back and try to argue a point.

[TheKOB]

I'll rip you apart later, but France, Germany, and Spain are all democratic. No media is state-controlled. Just so you know.

And Europeans don't like us because we try to play world police.

we are the world police, haven't you been paying attention? &*#( YEAH!!!

Seriously, if not us, who? the UN

[OutBurst]

Bush is not number one in my book to say the least.

[Conrice]

do you really think things would be different (significantly different) under kerry? they wouldnt....we'd still be occupying iraq, we'd still have the world hate us, and instead of liberals complaining about bush, the otherside would complain about kerry....

leave the USA if you truly hate it... thats why we have so many immigrants...is because they hated their country and left, so, if you are willing to say that you hate the gov. and leader, leave and be happy wherever you go

[massliveguy]

THANK YOU CONRICE..............weve been needing someone to say that exact statement, if you dont like it, too f-in bad, move to an island with all those wussy actors who have never had real jobs haha

oh and i would really like to see if anyone agrees with me on this, now pope john paul 2 was clearly a great pope, but i was slighty miffed when he made statements about western policy awhile, i really dont believe it is up to religous leaders to express their political views to the public.....you could almost compare this to teachers preaching one sided liberal politics to high school kids who cant decide on their own because they are paid with taxes

[AZReDWiNG]

do you really think things would be different (significantly different) under kerry? they wouldnt....we'd still be occupying iraq, we'd still have the world hate us, and instead of liberals complaining about bush, the otherside would complain about kerry....

leave the USA if you truly hate it... thats why we have so many immigrants...is because they hated their country and left, so, if you are willing to say that you hate the gov. and leader, leave and be happy wherever you go

http://www.bflsite.com/images/smiles/darkstar.gif

[laxrat22]

http://www.bflsite.com/images/smiles/darkstar.gif

awww what's wrong? can't stand to hear the truth?

conrice = my new hero.

[aussielax]

do you really think things would be different (significantly different) under kerry? they wouldnt....we'd still be occupying iraq, we'd still have the world hate us, and instead of liberals complaining about bush, the otherside would complain about kerry....

leave the USA if you truly hate it... thats why we have so many immigrants...is because they hated their country and left, so, if you are willing to say that you hate the gov. and leader, leave and be happy wherever you go

Just because you don't like bush doesen't mean you do like Kerry.

And is that how you fix problems, well i don't like what the president of my country is doing i might just leave and let him continue to getaway with doing everything wrong. insted of staying and fixing the problem.

[dpolehh21]

do you really think things would be different (significantly different) under kerry? they wouldnt....we'd still be occupying iraq, we'd still have the world hate us, and instead of liberals complaining about bush, the otherside would complain about kerry....

leave the USA if you truly hate it... thats why we have so many immigrants...is because they hated their country and left, so, if you are willing to say that you hate the gov. and leader, leave and be happy wherever you go
Not neccesarily but things would have been different under Gore. Just because Kerry may not have been able to fully repair every mess Bush made doesn't mean that he's a lesser candidate or man. The problems were still CREATED BY Bush. Your comment about the other side however truly depicts how terrible and crooked the US democracy is. NEITHER party truly cares about the good of the country. Its just a matter of whos bought and sold by the special interests you might agree with. And no the reason the US has so many immigrants is not neccesarily becuase they hate their own country more that theres more opporunity here. And your final comment, so you believe any dissenting opinon should leave the country? Would you not say this agrees with the policies of Stalin, Hitler, and other tyrants? Oh and I love this country but I'll be enjoying my free government paid college education and health care in Canada, thank you.

[laxrat22]

Oh and I love this country but I'll be enjoying my free government paid college education and health care in Canada, thank you.

1st of all, the cnadian government doesnt provide free college education, i don't know who told you that
also, everyone thinks the free health care is great then they find out about the extremely high taxes in canada and that kinda takes away the glamour

but have fun in the frozen tundra of canada, i'm sure you'll love it

[chslax538]

Everyones mad at America for being the world police becasue they (the UN and Europe) are not. honestly though who cares what the rest of the world thinks? were not going to change their opinion anytime soon untill we elect some super liberal and do everything they want, which happens to be a conflict of interest with what most people want (considering the president won the election). also for those of you saying how corrupt and crappy America is, i agree 100% with conrice, go live somewhere else, orrr stop complaining becasue the government isnt bending over backwards for your personal ideas and wait until some one else is elected.

[franks2089]

LOVE HIM LOVE HIM LOVE HIM LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE.
agreed ajbhfjsdfljsdfhjsdhfsdjsdflkhfskdhsfsjdfhkjsdhfkjs dhfjhsdh

[AZReDWiNG]

awww what's wrong? can't stand to hear the truth?

conrice = my new hero.

no, can't stand to see brainwashed mindless idiots telling me to leave my country when this country was founded on the idea that you should be allowed to disagree with government

:clap:

[Lockbox911]

Im not seeing all these problems you say President Bush got us into. All I can think of is the War in Iraq. And thats a person's opinion. What else is there, his tax cuts. Please name something else and don't say the economy. Because The recession started before he was elected.

[dpolehh21]

1st of all, the cnadian government doesnt provide free college education, i don't know who told you that
also, everyone thinks the free health care is great then they find out about the extremely high taxes in canada and that kinda takes away the glamour

but have fun in the frozen tundra of canada, i'm sure you'll love it
Toronto isn't that cold and they do provide either an extremely cheap or free college education. All of my relatives and my father from Canada might know better than someone who calls it a "frozen tundra". The climate of Toronto is similar to New York and Vancouver is similar to Seattle. And my parents haven't paid Canadian taxes nor will I because we live in the US, but hold dual citizenship. I doubt you've ever been there.

[noob234]

Im not seeing all these problems you say President Bush got us into. All I can think of is the War in Iraq. And thats a person's opinion. What else is there, his tax cuts. Please name something else and don't say the economy. Because The recession started before he was elected.
1. War in Iraq
2. Extremely High Oil Prices
3. Ignoring a memo reading "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the US" in August of 2001
4. Taking a huge surplus he inherited then turning it into the largest deficit in history
5. Bin Laden is still free
6. Lowered Enviromental standards
7. Making his Tax Cuts (never have and never will work) permanent
8. Appointing a xenophobic control freak to Ambassador to the U.N.
9. Knowingly falsifying military intelligence to fit his position.

The list goes on. The world hasn't always hated us like this. Did you ever see so many people protesting or burning effigies of Clinton or Reagan?

[chslax538]

how is oil prices his fault. its the greedy opec members. and lets say he did respond to the memo, by raising security levels, putting alrets out, starting the patriot act, youd would be complaining about that. whats wrong with tax cuts? who cares about the UN? oil for food, yea that worked. we started a freaking war over bin laden, or were you opposed to that when it started? should i go on?

[Lockbox911]

1. War in Iraq
2. Extremely High Oil Prices
3. Ignoring a memo reading "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the US" in August of 2001
4. Taking a huge surplus he inherited then turning it into the largest deficit in history
5. Bin Laden is still free
6. Lowered Enviromental standards
7. Making his Tax Cuts (never have and never will work) permanent
8. Appointing a xenophobic control freak to Ambassador to the U.N.
9. Knowingly falsifying military intelligence to fit his position.

The list goes on. The world hasn't always hated us like this. Did you ever see so many people protesting or burning effigies of Clinton or Reagan?

1. did you read my post, its a persons opinion. I personally support the war. What should we ahve done, send a letter to the UN and Sadam asking him to stop being mean.
2. oil prices would be the presidents before him for not building enough refineries.
3. Or how about the fact that Bill Clinton did nothing and allowed the terrorist to be in this country and plan it.
4. You remember what he did, Tax cuts, which took us out of a recession. Also how about the fact that FDR established all this deficet spending in the first place. No problem then even though it didnt work.
5. Well its kind of hard to find a needle in a hay stack.
6. Are you freaking kidding me.
7. He ahsnt made them permanent, so its nothing he did wrong.
8. We neede someone extreme to change the UN's ways.
9. Something everyone does, something democrats do to prove their point against the war.

You have yet to prove any point.

[laxrat22]

Toronto isn't that cold and they do provide either an extremely cheap or free college education. All of my relatives and my father from Canada might know better than someone who calls it a "frozen tundra". The climate of Toronto is similar to New York and Vancouver is similar to Seattle. And my parents haven't paid Canadian taxes nor will I because we live in the US, but hold dual citizenship. I doubt you've ever been there.

http://www.caut.ca/en/news/comms/20041125lobbyday.asp
^^study that shows 2/3 of canadians think tuition is too high

and yes i have been there. i was in vancouver in july and it was 70 degrees and people were saying it was abnormally hot. i was putting on a sweatshirt while people were sweating. and ok toronto may have a climate like new york which means it gets below 0 during the winter which seems pretty damn frozen to me.

[Conrice]

azredwing, youre calling me a mindless, brainwashed, idiot?? :nono: grow a pair. you can disagree with the gov. I DO! but, if youre going to sit here and say, o i hate the gov and i hate bush, the rest of the world hates us......JUST LEAVE! say you disagree, dont say hate, those are two completely different things. i dissagree (from my knowledge) with a lot that this administration does, but i dont hate it by any means. its my gov., my leader, and my home

aussielax....if youre going to stay and fix the problems, you need to know what the problems are first.... and if you think ANY OF US on this board (including you) , or anyone except people in washington (the gov.) is smart, educated, and involved enough to know all the problems, you have another thing coming....you guys say that, "o im gonna stand up and fix this problem", all ive seen so far is complaining. and when you complain about problems like the deficit, the war, UN, etc., make sure you know what youre complaining about, because you just might not understand it completely. you might want to understand what youre going to fix before you fix it.

think of it like someone that goes and tries to take apart everything on a car, fix it, and put it back together, when all they know is how an engine works (in theory) from reading ask.com - thats pretty stupid isnt it?

[chmcclellan]

1. did you read my post, its a persons opinion. I personally support the war. What should we ahve done, send a letter to the UN and Sadam asking him to stop being mean.
2. oil prices would be the presidents before him for not building enough refineries.
3. Or how about the fact that Bill Clinton did nothing and allowed the terrorist to be in this country and plan it.
4. You remember what he did, Tax cuts, which took us out of a recession. Also how about the fact that FDR established all this deficet spending in the first place. No problem then even though it didnt work.
5. Well its kind of hard to find a needle in a hay stack.
6. Are you freaking kidding me.
7. He ahsnt made them permanent, so its nothing he did wrong.
8. We neede someone extreme to change the UN's ways.
9. Something everyone does, something democrats do to prove their point against the war.

You have yet to prove any point.

1. Sending him a letter asking him not to be mean would at least be useful. If Bush had done anything of the sort it would have been a letter re:WMD, but that wouldn't have made much sense to Saddam who had none.
2. Refineries don't have much to do with oil prices. Maybe you are thinking of gas which is different from oil. The most a president could do to change the market price of oil would be fostering a more stable middle east. He has failed at that by any reasonable metric.
3. Same with H.W. before Clinton, How about that? We could go on ad infinitum, but at best you are saying "hey, Clinton was no better". Lets be serious, Bush didn't care about homeland security until 9/11, and after 9/11 a democrat would have cared too.
4. The tax cuts didn't take us out of the recession, or at least not very well. This is one of the shallowest recoveries seen in recent times. If you really think Tax cuts are effective against recessions (a separate discussion), I think academics agree a tax cut targeting the wealthy is not the most effective at boosting aggregate demand.
5. I don't think his beef was not as much that he is free as that Bush could be doing more, especially if he had not overcommitted our forces to a war which has nothing to do with homeland security.
6. We're not kidding whats the joke? The only Bush/Environment joke is that he doesn't seem to believe in global warming, a phenomenon science is pretty much agreed upon. Maybe if he understood an idea we feel comfortable teaching our grade school children, we too would be a signatory to the Kyoto agreement.
7. Oh nice, "this miscarriage of policy making which he advocates is still awaiting vote, so you shouldn't blame him for it" yet . . .
8. Too bad we won't know if he is the right man for the job until the White House gives up the documents the senate has requested.
9. I think it was particularly aggregious in this case, considering the costs of the War, the number of credible intelligence sources who were denying WMD before the war started. Perhaps most troubling has been his administration's failure to come clean, what he may have done were it an honest mistake. As far as the point that Democrats do it. I'll agree in part, except that Clinton didn't bring us in to any war this big, let alone doing so by exploiting patriotism in a bigoted way after a national tragedy.

I haven't responded to this thread yet, but with so many words, you said so little. Agree with noob234 or not, at least give him an intelligent response.

And you haven't proved anything either by the way. Proof is pretty hard to come by in anything but mathematics.

[Thrillhouse]

Did you ever see so many people protesting or burning effigies of Clinton or Reagan?

Well, President Reagan was financing them, so I don’t think they had much of a problem with Rawhide: but you got to give them credit with President Clinton. They blew up the Trade Center, two US Embassies, and the USS Cole, but nothing they did seemed to really bother him.

[swordsman]

1. did you read my post, its a persons opinion. I personally support the war. What should we ahve done, send a letter to the UN and Sadam asking him to stop being mean.
2. oil prices would be the presidents before him for not building enough refineries.
3. Or how about the fact that Bill Clinton did nothing and allowed the terrorist to be in this country and plan it.
4. You remember what he did, Tax cuts, which took us out of a recession. Also how about the fact that FDR established all this deficet spending in the first place. No problem then even though it didnt work.
5. Well its kind of hard to find a needle in a hay stack.
6. Are you freaking kidding me.
7. He ahsnt made them permanent, so its nothing he did wrong.
8. We neede someone extreme to change the UN's ways.
9. Something everyone does, something democrats do to prove their point against the war.

You have yet to prove any point.


1.) I think you'll admit that the Bush administration hasn't done the best job in Implementing good strategies aainst the insurgance such as closing iraq's borders I think THAT'S undeniable
2.)No it's his fault for not working out some kinks with his Sudi friends.
3.)Terrorist planned to carry out an attack against LA X airport. True he let Tim lauve blow up that building but Bill never ferried his family out of the US not questions asked AT th tax payers expense.
4.) Really they took us out of the recession I missed somethin
5.)Not if he had questioned the Bin Ladens as to his location.
6.)Yes he did check the net, genius.
7.)He did make them Pergment(sp?) ur out of the loop...
8.)O, yes and the UN loves us enough to do it because our ambasidor SAID SO.
9.)Show me when Vlinto falsified Intelligence.

Yes we have proven a point but we just needed to spell it out for you...

Thrillhouse-Those explosions were minor. but your right. He raged a much silenter war. Using only limited military band mostly CIA and FBI to do the jobe. problem was they didn't cooperate.Also he never made an official 'War on Terrorism' as Bush did.

[aussielax]

aussielax....if youre going to stay and fix the problems, you need to know what the problems are first.... and if you think ANY OF US on this board (including you) , or anyone except people in washington (the gov.) is smart, educated, and involved enough to know all the problems, you have another thing coming....you guys say that, "o im gonna stand up and fix this problem", all ive seen so far is complaining. and when you complain about problems like the deficit, the war, UN, etc., make sure you know what youre complaining about, because you just might not understand it completely. you might want to understand what youre going to fix before you fix it.



Well whenever i do complain about somthing that is going wrong, i normaly know why it is going wrong and what must be done to fix it. Were as the govt seem to do things wrong and realise that these things are not working but they do not do anything to fix it.

[Conrice]

but do you know whats going wrong with the problems you complain about? can you tell me the steps to fix them? do you really think the solutions are that simple? do you think you...or i....or anyone in this place could possibly fathom how complex the problems are?

before you trash someone for doing something wrong, you should know how to make it right, and if you think its a simple solution to where you can explain it (having no political expirience, no bureacracy expirience, etc.), then you dont really understand the problem

you can disagree with what george bush stands for (abortion rights, physcal theory, gay/lesbian rights,etc), but before you try and bash him on some of these problems, you need to know EXACTLY what is wrong, and EXACTLY how to fix them, none of this theory stuff

how can you say that the gov. doesnt try to fix things that are wrong?? take a step back and look at what the gov. does try to fix. it tries to fix the economy (interest rates, tax breaks, etc.), and if you think you can do a better job with the info you have now, you're not right in the head. it tries to fix the terror problem (better safety regulations, patriot act, etc.).
are you still going to sit there and say that the gov. does nothing?

[laxrat22]

1. Sending him a letter asking him not to be mean would at least be useful. If Bush had done anything of the sort it would have been a letter re:WMD, but that wouldn't have made much sense to Saddam who had none.
2. Refineries don't have much to do with oil prices. Maybe you are thinking of gas which is different from oil. The most a president could do to change the market price of oil would be fostering a more stable middle east. He has failed at that by any reasonable metric.
3. Same with H.W. before Clinton, How about that? We could go on ad infinitum, but at best you are saying "hey, Clinton was no better". Lets be
serious, Bush didn't care about homeland security until 9/11, and after 9/11 a democrat would have cared too.

1. hhmmm have you forgot the whole process that went on before the invasion of iraq. you know, how we went through the U.N. process by sending multiple letters of the years. and then the ultimatum we gave him before we invaded.
2. opec owns the oil not the u.s. government
3. at least he cared after an attack. lets see how much clinton cared:
Feb. 26, 1993: care bomb explodes in the world trade center in new york killing 6 and injuring thousands.
"I would plead with the American people and the good people of New York to keep your courage up and go on about your lives. I would discourage the American people from overreacting to this," Clinton said.
Clinton assured Americans that he had put forth "the full, full resources of the federal law enforcement agencies - all kinds of agencies, all kinds of access to information - at the service of those who are trying to figure out who did this and why." But no changes were made.

June 25, 1996: terrorist attacked the U.S. military complex and Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 Americans and wounding hundreds more.

Aug. 7, 1998: terrorists bombed the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 258 people. More than 5,000 were injured.
After this attack he did order cruise missile attacks in Afghanistan and Sudan but that was it. Nothing to actually prevent further attacks but just to appease the American public

Oct. 12, 2000, terrorists bombed the USS Cole as it sat in the Yemeni port of Aden. The bomb killed 17 U.S. sailors. Clinton moved ships into Yemen but that was it. Just another way of appeasing the American public.

ya a dem would care after an attack too, huh?

[ColtsLax]

I'll rip you apart later, but France, Germany, and Spain are all democratic. No media is state-controlled. Just so you know.

And Europeans don't like us because we try to play world police.

Isnt the BBC and other british news agencys controlled by Parliment? Thats what i thought, like how they owned British Airlines for so long.

Someone has to be the cops, otherwise if noone did anything it would be anarchy. Look at history, both WW, most notably, but many other operations. Go to Navy-Marinecorp stadium at Annapolis and see all the differnt things they have been involved in. Its all back to Teddy roosevelt

I am begining to become angry at people who complain about these "tax cuts" aimed at the wealthy. People claim that they get a better break than everyone else. True fact. But they also pay a lot more than everyone else. The gap between the bottom and the top is huge. A 35% tax on your income, is at the lowest is 114000 dollars, and it goes up from there. If your at the bottom, the lowest is obviously 0, and the highest is 1045 dollars, big difference.
The more you put in, the more you get out, simple

[MangOPimP]

(scroll down to the *********** area if you just want a laugh and need a breather from this debate. it is in high hopes to cool some jets here and let everyone know its supposed to be a nice discussion, not an insult upon peoples E intelligence... anyway, back to the program

Laxrat, i fail to find any real proof of your '2/3's' canadian's vote that says they think prices are too much. It was a whole 2000 people.... And until there are only 2000 people in Canada, there is still a big problem with distrubution of the voting places.

As for oil, I personally think that its not our administrations fault the prices are going up. Ever heard of China? 1.5 BILLION people? They are looking for fuel, have plenty of money, and are a big reason we have to pay more money because if we dont, oil companies would sell out to China's needs.

The recession we were in was already starting to escalate when Clinton was in, just like in FDR's case.

I personally try and agree with the government as much as i can whether it be democrat or republican majority. why? because that is their job, it is what they do, it is what they study, it is something that the majority of the people in the United States couldnt even start to handle.

." Sending him a letter asking him not to be mean" :... are you... serious?

"Refineries don't have much to do with oil prices. Maybe you are thinking of gas which is different from oil. The most a president could do to change the market price of oil would be fostering a more stable middle east. He has failed at that by any reasonable metric."
how would a refinery not have anything to do with oil prices? you buy the petroleum(oil) and REFINE IT(more money needed to do this, you know, so we can use the GAS) and have to chare more money since work is being done in the REFINERY. How would we make a more stable middle east by doing anything other than trying to oust dictators and terrorists? I would think if we wanted to stabilize the middle east, we would need to commit forces there quickly and in large numbers. something that baffles me is people who are upset at the war, want us to do something about terrorism, fix the middle east(which has been going on for a long time, not just 'U.S.' problems) and then turn around and say its bad to be 'world policeman'.
WHAT?! HELLO! Who else is going to do it? How can we fix terrorism without doing as much as we can to shut them down over there before they can do more here? Not all too many battles or wars are won sitting around drinking some pop and wondering,"hmmm. we just got attacked by a moron that is doped up on crack and who thinks freedom is bad.. i guess we should try and stop anymore attacks that might for some reason be launched at us AFTER we have mobilized our defense"

Dont insult peoples intelligence; at least not directly, on the internet because you're a fresh out of sophomore year know it all that is likely to change his or her mind about the same topic they are so 'open minded to others even though the others are so closed minded to them' arguing for up to 10 times during their life. Everyone has a view and opinion, whether they actually came up with it themselves or were just taught by their extreme left or right teacher/parent; they have one. Aparently, since Bush DID win.. he won right? we trusted him with our country's 'power' more than we did any other candidate. He is doing what he and his advisers see fit to help this country the most(and yes i know they all have some corruptness in them, who doesnt).

To me, not sending forces after an act of terrorism is like a mom not punishing her child for being an F off who is too 'dope' for school. its even worse when the mom/government says, im/were gonna teach you a lesson and then just sits around shoving their thumb up the butt because it shows that we dont back our word up and we are too intimidated to act. As a ref of soccer and paintball, you have to push with any consequence you say you will give or else people roll right over you.


******************************************
(this is in hopes of giving people a good laugh, dont read if your panties are in a bunch.. had to take out some smilies cuz the limit)
heres a quick thing on the war in iraq:
good people ask :WTF: when some :imparied: dude starts talking smack whilst eating white mush. all of a sudden, the good people are like :worship: and whoa , if he can get white mushy stuff for hating people, what could WE get for killing people?.. HEY! lets go blow innocent people with no intent on doing damage to people who have any chance of defending themselves(military) then, the U.S.A. is all :argue: with them and decides to go :dummy: on their behinds. a little bit later, all the people who supported the cause are now like :thumbsdow , everyone in the world must hate us since all these protesters are out here talking about us and there isnt any people who support us out there, you know, protesting cuz, you're supposed to protest and throw fits and riots at stuff you like... so, the :angry: people who were once content now start getting their panties in a not and throwing fits too. meanwhile, the problem that is being addressed by the soilders is now like :banghead: , o **** :idea: we are screwed.. cant get thru anymore. but, they are still :happy because they have now ruined millions of lives and they will be awarded with virgins in their heaven or whatever because they screw with people... If they are so anxious about dying, why not just kill themselves.. :beard: Sorry, thought that would be entertaining to read and lighten the mood. if its too much mods, ill delete it.

[roycegracie47]

3. at least he cared after an attack. lets see how much clinton cared:
Feb. 26, 1993: care bomb explodes in the world trade center in new york killing 6 and injuring thousands.
"I would plead with the American people and the good people of New York to keep your courage up and go on about your lives. I would discourage the American people from overreacting to this," Clinton said.
Clinton assured Americans that he had put forth "the full, full resources of the federal law enforcement agencies - all kinds of agencies, all kinds of access to information - at the service of those who are trying to figure out who did this and why." But no changes were made.


You're forgetting the suspects and the Mastermind behind the attacks were tracked down and tried.

Discourage the people from overreacting, you bet. Remember Oklahoma City, the first words out of every law agencies mouth was that this had to be the act of Muslim Terrorists and them alone. Everyone was so sure of it it was hard to believe it was a white American.

NOW,Think back to 9/11 and the days after it. How many people of Middle Eastern or Central Asian descent were attacked without just cause because of overreacting. People were even pressuring lawmakers bringing back the internment camps ala The Seige. And so Bush used public overreaction (much like FDR used Pearl Harbor) as a catalyst for the way things are today. So we begin to lose our civil liberties and others lose some civil rights along with it...I'm sure that's what's best for a free democratic nation.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

whats wrong with tax cuts?
Jee, let's see, the country is in a deficit... the national budget is in huge debt, yet we're gonna cut taxes, and let the next democrat in office make up the money we lost in Bush's two terms. Now, in theory, some economists believe that cutting taxes allow americans to spend more, therefore bringing in more taxes at lower rates. But, let's think about this one... When there are no jobs on the market, No one has any money to spend anyhow. The average middle class citizen has had to resort to buying only the essentials lately, because someone is either laid off, or were forced to take a job they are overqualified for. Now, when people are only buying the essentials, they arent gonna be spending any disposable income, and therefore the aforementioned economic theory doesnt work, but apparently, someone in washington is still convinced it will, even though it hasnt for the past 5 years...

[Thrillhouse]

Jee, let's see, the country is in a deficit... the national budget is in huge debt, yet we're gonna cut taxes, and let the next democrat in office make up the money we lost in Bush's two terms. Now, in theory, some economists believe that cutting taxes allow americans to spend more, therefore bringing in more taxes at lower rates. But, let's think about this one... When there are no jobs on the market, No one has any money to spend anyhow. The average middle class citizen has had to resort to buying only the essentials lately, because someone is either laid off, or were forced to take a job they are overqualified for. Now, when people are only buying the essentials, they arent gonna be spending any disposable income, and therefore the aforementioned economic theory doesnt work, but apparently, someone in washington is still convinced it will, even though it hasnt for the past 5 years...

We COULD think about it that way, or we could look at what really happened.
We were going into a recession and The President cut taxes. The result is consistent growth for 8 consecutive quarters and an unemployment rate of 5%. I’m not trying to minimize the importance of a budget deficit, because it is big and it is bad, but to counter it would mean raising taxes, which would slow down the economy. If someone wants to explain to me how we could raise taxes without a negative effect on the economy, I’m all ears. I just don’t see how it can be done. As of now, a stronger economy with a federal deficit is the lesser of two evils.

[TheKOB]

NOW,Think back to 9/11 and the days after it. How many people of Middle Eastern or Central Asian descent were attacked without just cause because of overreacting. People were even pressuring lawmakers bringing back the internment camps ala The Seige. And so Bush used public overreaction (much like FDR used Pearl Harbor) as a catalyst for the way things are today. So we begin to lose our civil liberties and others lose some civil rights along with it...I'm sure that's what's best for a free democratic nation.

A lot less than if it happened in other countries. We're still the most accepting country on the face of the earth with regards to race, creed, culture, religion and sexual orientation.

[roycegracie47]

A lot less than if it happened in other countries. We're still the most accepting country on the face of the earth with regards to race, creed, culture, religion and sexual orientation.
I'd agree with you with the exception of that last one. The majority of the racial profiling dropped signifigantly a year later, but after spending a couple months working out of a gun range, there are many who still don't see the distinction between being a muslim or of middle eastern/semetic/central asian decent and being a terrorist sleeper agent.

[TheKOB]

I'd agree with you with the exception of that last one. The majority of the racial profiling dropped signifigantly a year later, but after spending a couple months working out of a gun range, there are many who still don't see the distinction between being a muslim or of middle eastern/semetic/central asian decent and being a terrorist sleeper agent.

There's a difference between having prejudices and acting on 'em. There are a bunch of people that still have prejudices against blacks (they're not all skin heads either) but the days of hangin' that thar colored boy from the ole oak tree (with time out to spit out tabbaccy juice) are over. I will admit that terriorists do a great job in tearing at our society's cloth by creating (usually) or bringing up old prejudices to a point (less likely) where they're creating racial strife. That hasn't been the case though...

Also, I'd imagine everyone talks big on a gun range :laugh:

[roycegracie47]

There's a difference between having prejudices and acting on 'em. There are a bunch of people that still have prejudices against blacks (they're not all skin heads either) but the days of hangin' that thar colored boy from the ole oak tree (with time out to spit out tabbaccy juice) are over. I will admit that terriorists do a great job in tearing at our society's cloth by creating (usually) or bringing up old prejudices to a point (less likely) where they're creating racial strife. That hasn't been the case though...


Also, I'd imagine everyone talks big on a gun range :laugh:

Generalizations will still be made even if those days are gone. Take a gander at some our less intelligent posts by some our younger, conservative members. After 9/11, some seeds of suspision were sown deeper than others. Some from both ends of the spectrum will realize that it's like you said above. Some are more set in their ways that everyone is either all guilty or completely innocent ( by the way I recommend picking up the book Orientalism which has much to do on the the ex-romance and mystique of the Lawrence of Arabia Middle East and how it became generalized as the spawning ground of terrorists it is sometimes viewed as today).


Ever read the strip Boondocks?? After 9/11 he did a whole thing a bout black America dismayed after discovering they were no longer the mistrusted minority. :laugh:

Of course at the gun range they all talk big, with the exception of those who have suffered from gun cleaning mishaps. :chuckle:

[TheKOB]

Of course at the gun range they all talk big, with the exception of those who have suffered from gun cleaning mishaps. :chuckle:

after the more serious mishaps, some of them talk soprano....

[JoshM]

Personally, I think he's a moron.

[Palmettolax45]

i dont understand how when every one of these threads pops up, it's usually split, yet when we get into any kind of political discussion here, the only people on the liberal side are me... and me. ocassionaly someone else will feel courageous and jump in...
I got your back but i dont like fighting that much in tlf because its a lacrosse forum and i dont want to make to many enemys but i stand up for what i belive in whenever i can

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

We COULD think about it that way, or we could look at what really happened.
We were going into a recession and The President cut taxes. The result is consistent growth for 8 consecutive quarters and an unemployment rate of 5%. I’m not trying to minimize the importance of a budget deficit, because it is big and it is bad, but to counter it would mean raising taxes, which would slow down the economy. If someone wants to explain to me how we could raise taxes without a negative effect on the economy, I’m all ears. I just don’t see how it can be done. As of now, a stronger economy with a federal deficit is the lesser of two evils.

OK, but, you still have to wonder... bush came into office with a balanced budget on his hands... how does it go so sour under his watch? and, please... the "the economy comes and goes in cycles" excuse is getting really old. the economic cycle doesnt account for the largest deficit in history, esp after there was a balanced budget.

And as for your unempoyment rate, check out this article from 2004. there's a lot more to unemployment than just a number... http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=186379

[ColtsLax]

Some of the reasons that he has a defecit is because Clinton drained the National oil reserve to keep the prices down. Bush had to fill it up again which hurt us. But thats just one thing. I still dont envy him.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

lemme guess... your republican parents tell you this all the time, dont they?? Ah, the youth of america and how so many of us are so easily convinced... mainly because we dont feel like taking the time to look things up for ourselves. I cant tell you how many times i've heard "but the bad economy/nat'l deficit is clinton's fault... he's the one who handed it over to bush"...

[TheKOB]

OK, but, you still have to wonder... bush came into office with a balanced budget on his hands... how does it go so sour under his watch? and, please... the "the economy comes and goes in cycles" excuse is getting really old. the economic cycle doesnt account for the largest deficit in history, esp after there was a balanced budget.


Ask your parents spent the same amount this year as last. the budget doesn't stay the same. costs change all the time. Maybe find out the differences in the budget and then complain about those.

Painting changes in the economy with the broad brush of "whoever is president is responsible" is really old, like Clinton old....since he was benefitting from the economic effects that Bush Sr. had.

[Magoo]

"The only Bush I trust is my own!"- Sign from 2004 inaugurational riot. Operation something. We all seem to be wearing the blue dress don't we? In fact, Republican parents do tend to lie to there children, or tend to be stupid and not know what else to tell them. Buck Fush. I've been reading up on conspiracy theories, www.prisonplanet.com. Some I see are total bu****, but others seem very possible. I don't like Bush, but honestly, Kerry wouldn't have been any better. Purple hearts usually mean you were shot and not killed, although purple hearts have been distributed to killed soldiers. I think this year's election was a lose-lose situation. But I bet Nader woulda been better! DONT BE A HATER! VOTE FOR NADER!

just kidding

[dtl42]

i think bush could be replaced by an able bodied monkey and the country would do better

[ttacka]

^ .........wtf?

[Magoo]

ditto
wtf are you talking about dtl. even though you are probably just ****in around, Bush has done his best. It's not like he came to a crossroad where he saw that left is good and right is bad, and he went right. He's done his best.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

eh, i think he went straight, instead, down corruption street. the man, as far as i'm concerned is wicked and doesnt give a damn about the middle class, the youth of america, or anyone who wasnt willing to contribute to his campaigns...

[chslax538]

so all the democratic parents are smart and tell their children the truth, straight from Mr. Moore's mouth. i can tell you that i form my own opinions and my mom never talks about politics with me. Georgia middie i cant even express in words how stupid that idea is.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

no, im not sayin that all demcratic parents are smart. i just hate the kids who form these political views based on the biased opinions their parents give em. And what Coltslax said sounds an awful lot like one of those things parents say to their kids, and so the kid just goes and says that whever they find the opportunity. There are a lot of dumb liberals out there, along with conservatives. aka, the liberals who are liberals just because they think they wanna be hippies yet really dont know anything about the issues of the democratic party.

Oh, and by the way, Michael Moore's an idiot... no one listens to him... even most democrats.

[Magoo]

Excuse me, off topic: How the hell did the democratic party become associated to peace. Some 50 years ago, they where hanging black people.

[Conrice]

hahahahaha, actually, you're right and wrong. around the time of FDR, the political parties changed sides....way back when, in the old days, the democrats were all from the south, and the republicans were all from the north....and, the republicans were much more liberal than the democrats were, but, around the time of FDR, they changed....so actually the people you are talking about are southern conservatives (extremists)

disclaimer : im not saying that conservatives hang people or that they are racists, im just clearing things up for magoo (im a southerner myself)

georgia middie2, its actually been proven that you dont really see what a president has done, until the term after...so, there's a reason there is a debate as to whether or not it is clinton's fault or not. im not saying it is or it isnt. as most things, i think it is a combination of several things that went wrong....9/11, a surplus of money that really doesnt exist (stock market), too many tax cuts, interest rates too low, etc.

[Magoo]

Wait, extremists, aren't they called radicals or something of the sort?
-faint memory from GA history class

[Thrillhouse]

OK, but, you still have to wonder... bush came into office with a balanced budget on his hands... how does it go so sour under his watch? and, please... the "the economy comes and goes in cycles" excuse is getting really old. the economic cycle doesnt account for the largest deficit in history, esp after there was a balanced budget. ]
Are you really going to try to argue that the economy during President Clinton years was all because of his insightful economic policies and didn’t have anything to do with the Internet boom; and at the same time argue that the recession was the result of President Bush being elected president and nothing to do with the bottom falling out of the Internet boom? They were great years, anyone could make a lot of money on the stock market and they paid a lot of taxes; it just didn’t last.
After the stock market came back to earth, we were headed towards a deficit; we just were not going to have the tax revenue we enjoyed. It probably would have been 200-300 billion less without tax cuts, but that would have also taken 200-300 billion out of the economy. Would that have that made a difference? Seeing how the economy is growing, it’s hard to argue otherwise; but like I said before, if you can think of a way to raise taxes and still stimulate the economy, I’m all ears…


And as for your unempoyment rate, check out this article from 2004. there's a lot more to unemployment than just a number... http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=186379

True, if we count the people who are too lazy to look for a job, the unemployment rate would go up. Keep in mind, if we counted those same people in the Clinton years, his unemployment rate would jump up too. If we could count the number of job vacancies against the number of people looking for jobs, it would be even lower. (My company can’t hire people fast enough) I’m sure I could find some right wing website that would say just that, but I think it would be better to settle on the same formula that was used to figure out President Clinton’s unemployment rate as President Bush’s unemployment rate.

[stegmakk]

A lot less than if it happened in other countries. We're still the most accepting country on the face of the earth with regards to race, creed, culture, religion and sexual orientation.
Not for long if Jr. really had his way.
Besides...I REALLY don't think we are the most accepting.
The UK would probably be better, there is more of a mix of cultures there.
there is alot of hate in the US...
I only hate on people by intelligence...
Those dumber than me shall feel my squirrelly wrath

[Thrillhouse]

Some of the reasons that he has a defecit is because Clinton drained the National oil reserve to keep the prices down. Bush had to fill it up again which hurt us. But thats just one thing. I still dont envy him.

Yeah, I know around my republican household, my parents bring this up at the dinner table all the time.

Instead of arguing your ideas, they dismiss them by assuming you got the from your parents. If that’s not going to stimulate a productive debate, I don’t know what will.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

ok, fine... you wanna play like that thrillhouse and try to be smart, i wanna see evidence showing that clinton really did do that and how what bush has done with oil is any better than what clinton did. Because as of right now, i spend about 1/5 of my paycheck just gettting back and forth to work 5 days a week, and i live fairly close to work. I wanna see how much of an impact it really has had on the deficit. I wanna see how much clinton really did take out of the national reserve compared to what bush has taken out, and finally, i wanna see what oil companies bush is tied to, and where those companies drill. I can almost guarantee bush is buying mainly from the companies he and his friends are tied to...

And, if y'all wanna say somethin like that, my liberal family always talks about how republicans say we like to "tax and spend", yet republicans just like to spend and forget to tax, so democrats when get into office we tax to get the budget balanced again, and the republicans jump all over us for high taxes... but it must be an insightful thought, since it's discussed around my dinner table like your opinion on the oil reserve is discussed around your dinner table, right?

[Thrillhouse]

ok, fine... you wanna play like that thrillhouse and try to be smart, i wanna see evidence showing that clinton really did do that and how what bush has done with oil is any better than what clinton did. Because as of right now, i spend about 1/5 of my paycheck just gettting back and forth to work 5 days a week, and i live fairly close to work. I wanna see how much of an impact it really has had on the deficit. I wanna see how much clinton really did take out of the national reserve compared to what bush has taken out, and finally, i wanna see what oil companies bush is tied to, and where those companies drill. I can almost guarantee bush is buying mainly from the companies he and his friends are tied to...

And, if y'all wanna say somethin like that, my liberal family always talks about how republicans say we like to "tax and spend", yet republicans just like to spend and forget to tax, so democrats when get into office we tax to get the budget balanced again, and the republicans jump all over us for high taxes... but it must be an insightful thought, since it's discussed around my dinner table like your opinion on the oil reserve is discussed around your dinner table, right?


If you don't agree with someones ideas, counter them with your own. If all you can come up with is assuming that someone gets thier ideas from thier parents you're really not bringing anything to the table.

I actually don't agree with his point on refilling the oil reserve. I was just pointing out that you didn't, and still don't, have anything to counter his views except a bunch of questions you expect someone else to answer for you. There is a fact that you could throw in his face, but you have to find it on your own.

Let me give you an example of countering someone ideas with one of your own.
You noted that 1/5 of you pay check goes towards gas to get you to work, which by the way, sucks. For every gallon of gas you buy, 18.4 cents goes to the feds. The State of Georgia is hitting you up for another 7.5 cents and a 4% sales tax on top of that.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

Almost 26 cents per gallon and 4% sales tax is putting a pretty big dent in your wallet. If you were to get a break on that, wouldn't it stimulate the economy by allowing you to spend money on other things instead of buying gas, which you have to buy anyway?

[LymanLax28]

The list goes on. The world hasn't always hated us like this. Did you ever see so many people protesting or burning effigies of Clinton or Reagan?
The world has hated us for a while, and not without reason.

[Magoo]

I think all that Bush was trying to do with the tax cuts was to eliminate the lower class. He was trying to make the lower class into the middle class and the middle class into the high class and make the high class into an even higher class, therefore boosting the economy. Unfortunately, some people don't realize that all that cannot be done in a few months. Boosting the lives of billions of people is gonna take sacrafice and patience, not *****ing. Some people aren't willing to do that.

[roycegracie47]

I think all that Bush was trying to do with the tax cuts was to eliminate the lower class. He was trying to make the lower class into the middle class and the middle class into the high class and make the high class into an even higher class, therefore boosting the economy. Unfortunately, some people don't realize that all that cannot be done in a few months. Boosting the lives of billions of people is gonna take sacrafice and patience, not *****ing. Some people aren't willing to do that.
This sounds vaguely reminiscent of Nader's platform for a mandatory living wage, and attempt to remove the minimum wage retrictions that keep the lower class, lower class. The problem in both cases (Nader's and above) is that it doesn't change the promote classes, rather it raises the poverty line and many middle-class families (read: all but the upper-middle class) get moved down into that bracket of lower class as the economy and inflation changes. Now you wind up with more lower class than before, couple with the with sky-rocketing costs of living etc. and it doesn't change anything for the better at all.

[TheKOB]

Not for long if Jr. really had his way.
Besides...I REALLY don't think we are the most accepting.
The UK would probably be better, there is more of a mix of cultures there.
there is alot of hate in the US...
I only hate on people by intelligence...
Those dumber than me shall feel my squirrelly wrath


So he's a racist now too? His cabinet is the most diverse we've ever had. the only think I can think of is gays and lesbians, and I think we're a lot further along than most other countries. We're far ahead with tolerance towards race and religion in my opinion. Other countries "tolerance" is only towards the 10% of the population that is a minority. My girlfriend told me that here in Columbia SC, 44% of the people are black and 44% are white, while the remaining 8% is probably hispanic (and live in my apartment complex). where else would match that statistic?

[lax save man]

im a bush fan
dont try to convice me other wies im too strong willed

[Magoo]

LaxMiddie32: No I'm not joking, I have learned from experience. My parents are both republicans and have no idea what they are talking about. They will tell me that Bush made the right decision when he didn't and this and that when in the end, it's all complete bull****. The same with my other republican parented friends, they all have been taught these right wing lies, and liberals also do tell their children a fair share of lies, but they seem to be more open on situations. Again, this is knowledge I've gained from experience where I have lived. It could be different anywhere.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

If you don't agree with someones ideas, counter them with your own. If all you can come up with is assuming that someone gets thier ideas from thier parents you're really not bringing anything to the table.

I actually don't agree with his point on refilling the oil reserve. I was just pointing out that you didn't, and still don't, have anything to counter his views except a bunch of questions you expect someone else to answer for you. There is a fact that you could throw in his face, but you have to find it on your own.

Let me give you an example of countering someone ideas with one of your own.
You noted that 1/5 of you pay check goes towards gas to get you to work, which by the way, sucks. For every gallon of gas you buy, 18.4 cents goes to the feds. The State of Georgia is hitting you up for another 7.5 cents and a 4% sales tax on top of that.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

Almost 26 cents per gallon and 4% sales tax is putting a pretty big dent in your wallet. If you were to get a break on that, wouldn't it stimulate the economy by allowing you to spend money on other things instead of buying gas, which you have to buy anyway?
I'm sorry but when someone just blurts out an opinion with nothing to back it up, of course i'm gonna just dismiss it... hell, i could just blurt out any opinion, and you would probably dismiss it with some sort of "until you show some facts, that really holds no weight." I can't counter something that doesnt contain any facts or points to counter... And as far as the gas goes, sorry, but taxes on gas really dont change much, and you're all about lowering taxes and stimulating the economy, but is an extra 5 cents or so on every gallon really going to effect the economy that much? yay... i save $1.50 a week... i can buy a whole nother tank of gas in just a year...

Plus, you're all about lowering taxes, but we're already in a HUGE deficit. When do you suggest we stop lowering taxes, when we get down to spending almost nothing on taxes, and completely bankrupt ourselves? I mean, c'mon... our economy sucks... the american dollar has become much less valuable than the the euro since bush has come into office, which rarely happens, where you now have to pay 1.14 for every euro. in the past, it has usually been the other way around. I know these are some biased articles, but they have relevant facts, so you might wanna check em out. and since you republicans are always comparing bush to clinton... we finally decided to do it too...
http://www.whywehatebush.com/news/05_03-snowjob.html
http://www.whywehatebush.com/bush-economy.html
http://www.whywehatebush.com/reasons-deficit.html
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

The last one is really interesting...

[Magoo]

raine- FredTheCat is still here

[TheKOB]

I'm sorry but when someone just blurts out an opinion with nothing to back it up, of course i'm gonna just dismiss it... hell, i could just blurt out any opinion, and you would probably dismiss it with some sort of "until you show some facts, that really holds no weight." I can't counter something that doesnt contain any facts or points to counter... And as far as the gas goes, sorry, but taxes on gas really dont change much, and you're all about lowering taxes and stimulating the economy, but is an extra 5 cents or so on every gallon really going to effect the economy that much? yay... i save $1.50 a week... i can buy a whole nother tank of gas in just a year...

multiply that by how many people who fill their gas tanks each week.

Plus, you're all about lowering taxes, but we're already in a HUGE deficit. When do you suggest we stop lowering taxes, when we get down to spending almost nothing on taxes, and completely bankrupt ourselves?

Like 40% of the deficit is one part of the government oweing itself money...most of that forms a bedrock of the world's economy, T Bills. It's bad, but the sky definitely isn't falling.

I mean, c'mon... our economy sucks... the american dollar has become much less valuable than the the euro since bush has come into office, which rarely happens, where you now have to pay 1.14 for every euro. in the past, it has usually been the other way around.

The american dollar has always had less value than the Euro. If it is going down in value, maybe the euro is suffering from INFLATION. If it's the US going down in value, maybe we're suffering from the opposite of inflation. Besides, when I went to Ireland a few years back, I had to pay a 1.30 for every Euro. Also, if you did your homework, you'd find out that the economy and job market are improving.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/19/national/main667879.shtml

know these are some biased articles, but they have relevant facts, so you might wanna check em out. and since you republicans are always comparing bush to clinton... we finally decided to do it too...
http://www.whywehatebush.com/news/05_03-snowjob.html
http://www.whywehatebush.com/bush-economy.html
http://www.whywehatebush.com/reasons-deficit.html
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

The last one is really interesting...

'facts' should be in quotes....whoever wrote these fails to have any understanding of economics, or else they would've taken something called 9-11 into effect. also, read your own sources...

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

multiply that by how many people who fill their gas tanks each week.
Honestly now... do you really think if everyone buys an extra candy bar once a week, that the economy would be booming again? enough that the taxes from that candy bar would be worth cutting taxes that much?

Like 40% of the deficit is one part of the government oweing itself money...most of that forms a bedrock of the world's economy, T Bills. It's bad, but the sky definitely isn't falling.
Hey, lookie here, i got a conservative to say that the defecit and economy are bad...

The american dollar has always had less value than the Euro. If it is going down in value, maybe the euro is suffering from INFLATION. If it's the US going down in value, maybe we're suffering from the opposite of inflation. Besides, when I went to Ireland a few years back, I had to pay a 1.30 for every Euro. Also, if you did your homework, you'd find out that the economy and job market are improving.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/19/national/main667879.shtml
Oh, really? because i went to holland during the clinton era, and i could get a euro for about 90 cents. Also, maybe i just dont understand what you're tryin to say, but if we're suffering from the opposite of inflation, whould the value of the american dollar be going up??? And just because the economy has been improving over the last few months doesnt mean it's doing well... one step forward and three steps back... here's from your own source- "Last year, the economy generated a net 2.23 million jobs, the first annual increase in three years." The first in three years? jeez... that's freakin incredible!

"From an economic point of view, inflation isn't currently a threat to the economy, analysts say. But rising inflation does hit consumers squarely in the wallet. Consumer prices for all of 2004 rose by 3.3 percent, the Labor Department reported Wednesday. That was up considerably from a 1.9 percent gain for all of 2003. Surging energy costs were the main culprit behind last year's rise."
Hmmm, you're right the value of the american dollar is improving... you know since inflation is RISING!! tell me again how the value of the dollar can be improving during increasing inflation unles the rest of the internaational arket is doin piss poor...

'facts' should be in quotes....whoever wrote these fails to have any understanding of economics, or else they would've taken something called 9-11 into effect. also, read your own sources...

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html
1. You're gonna dismiss an article because they didnt put facts in quotes? you CBS article didnt put facts in quotes... 2. Y'all just love shovin everything off on 9/11, dont you? granted, it was a big event, but there are other things that have hurt us ecnonomically, such as rising oil, the TWO wars we're part of (one of which was totally unnecessary and both of which they expected to end a long, long time ago). And what was i supposed to see in that last source??

[TheKOB]

1. You're gonna dismiss an article because they didnt put facts in quotes? you CBS article didnt put facts in quotes... 2. Y'all just love shovin everything off on 9/11, dont you? granted, it was a big event, but there are other things that have hurt us ecnonomically, such as rising oil, the TWO wars we're part of (one of which was totally unnecessary and both of which they expected to end a long, long time ago). And what was i supposed to see in that last source??


I was alluding to that their "facts" aren't really facts at all, just part of an extremely biased website.

9/11 did more damage to the economy than everything else in recent memory. To discount that is just plain stupid.

Comparing how our currency is doing with another currency and taking that as a measure of our economy is like picking one stock since it's done better than another. It's stupid and doesn't take any other factors into account.

[AZReDWiNG]

I was alluding to that their "facts" aren't really facts at all, just part of an extremely biased website.

9/11 did more damage to the economy than everything else in recent memory. To discount that is just plain stupid.

Comparing how our currency is doing with another currency and taking that as a measure of our economy is like picking one stock since it's done better than another. It's stupid and doesn't take any other factors into account.

Except before Bush took office, a Euro cost 90 cents American. Now the Euro is about 1.50 American.

/me is still staying out of this one

[TheKOB]

Except before Bush took office, a Euro cost 90 cents American. Now the Euro is about 1.50 American.

/me is still staying out of this one


The Euro was just starting off, and was a little shakey. The English pound and the currencies of germany and probably france were worth more than the dollar too. It's a real stretch to say 1 dollar should equal 1 euro, and any variance is a good or bad thing. there are advantages to having a high value currency, and advantages to having a low value currency....they pretty much offset.

[texlax00026]

u r correct nclax! i hate bush even though i live here, and don't bash me cuz i dont like him and i live in houston. Because i am from NJ

[laxbabe42]

I'm neutral. I dont really know what i think about him. There are things I like about him and things I dont. The only thing that pisses me off about the whole bush thing is when people complain about him [or ANY president or high position] but don't really follow his administration, and dont know what they're talking about.

[LaxGuru27]

that texas southern hickn can burn in **** cause hes a retard

wow, thanks, with that rivating statement made me want to change my whole political views....

You my friend....just shut up, your making yourself look bad.

[tomahawks11]

us canadians hate bushs sorry *** for sending our troops to afghanistan to get killed

[AZReDWiNG]

LET IT DIE.

[lax4life84]

I DONT LIKE BUSH. ANYBODY LIKE HIM?????

[UNCdefense]

haha.lol.....im not a huge bush fan, i think all the people that run ofr president nowadays aren't the right people for the job, they all suck.....but those women that lost their sons in the war & now have made it their life mission to destroy bush need to get slapped in the face....or drop kicked, cause if oyu know me you know i like to see people get drop kicked....anyway, they are like completley disrespecting their son's honor, take it from someone who will join the marines/navy seals.......america's the greatest country & we have to defend ourselves to enjoy our rights & those women are flat out disrepsecting/dishonoring their sons

[LaxGuru27]

us canadians hate bushs sorry *** for sending our troops to afghanistan to get killed

Im so glad we have the offical spokes person for canada here. Number one scooter, Last time i checked Canada wasnt a common wealth nor a Republic of the US, Canada has its own leaders to **** up so dont even think for a second that Bush sending the US in Iraq or Afghan. has any baring on canada's choice to go in. Crickey Get informed or shut the hell up, its that simple.

[sillygoosemtc]

lhradil@comcast.net <lhradil@comcast.net>
this is so funny

[sillygoosemtc]

woops wrong link

[sillygoosemtc]

this is the one http://www.collegehumor.com/movies/1599866/

[wrwarrior19]

There sure are a lot of leftwing people on this forum. Personally I'm not a huge fan and there should really be a 'Mwhh' catagory in the voting. Not everything is so black and white with so many things to consider. nclax35 and people like him are what make liberals out to be more than a little subjective. Not to mention how liberally based the media is, but it's not all their fault; they can just be really, really, really ignorant.

[aussielax]

LET IT DIE.

yes, i think we have all had enough of the same old, same old. If you love him your probably not going to change your mind and if you hate him it is the same, just let this die.

[AZReDWiNG]

There sure are a lot of leftwing people on this forum.


LOL


Personally I'm not a huge fan and there should really be a 'Mwhh' catagory in the voting. Not everything is so black and white with so many things to consider. nclax35 and people like him are what make liberals out to be more than a little subjective. Not to mention how liberally based the media is, but it's not all their fault; they can just be really, really, really ignorant.

Right, because FOX and CBN and the Washington Times are liberal.

[laxrat22]

LOL



Right, because FOX and CBN and the Washington Times are liberal.

what happened to letting it die