View Full Version : Playing without equipment
ColtsLax
09-24-2005, 11:23 PM
whats your genral guideline for this.
Today ina game, a kid tried to hit me and my helmet fell off. I managed to hold onto the ball, take a step and pass it to a teammate. as soon as i passed it, the ref called me on it. Its not like i dodged 8 kids and scored, i was just giving away the ball to go get my helemt?
LaXDaVe
09-24-2005, 11:29 PM
He shouldnt have called you, because most likely even though you lost your helmet people who have beat on you for the ball, so you threw the ball away to protect yourself.
Lacrosse Ref LA
09-25-2005, 12:07 AM
Play stops immediately. He was not calling a foul against you. It is just to dangerous to continue the play.
UNCdefense
09-25-2005, 12:22 AM
ya i dunno about that i guess i can understand the refs concern though
COC Newsletter 3/10/05. Amendment to NCAA rules for 2005. Change 4-27 AR 113 to read: "A defensive player who loses equipment in scrimmage are and continues to play OR any player during a loose ball while scrimmage area continues to play...technical foul."
I am reciting off the top of my head.
So...offensive player with ball loses equipment...generally kill the play if another player "plays" him...give ballback to offensive player.
LaxRef
09-25-2005, 08:47 AM
COC Newsletter 3/10/05. Amendment to NCAA rules for 2005. Change 4-27 AR 113 to read: "A defensive player who loses equipment in scrimmage are and continues to play OR any player during a loose ball while scrimmage area continues to play...technical foul."
I am reciting off the top of my head.
So...offensive player with ball loses equipment...generally kill the play if another player "plays" him...give ballback to offensive player.
This, of course, is mute on the subject of an offensive player without the ball missing equipment and participating in the play. I'd call it a technical foul.
shrekjr
09-25-2005, 12:19 PM
As soon as the helmet came off and you still had possession, I would have stopped play immediately, let you put the helmet back on, keep possession and restart.
mglaxin8
09-25-2005, 06:34 PM
i had a game once where i had the ball and my defender stepped on the back of my shoe and it came off but the ref didnt bow the whistle or anything. i had to pass the ball to a teammate and then try and get my shoe back on.
goalieskcickay
09-25-2005, 06:38 PM
Refs are looking more for the loss of a glove, or helmet, where you are more likely to get injured. A shoe, although a piece of equipment, is less important than if you lost a glove or something like that. (
LaxRef
09-25-2005, 08:20 PM
Refs are looking more for the loss of a glove, or helmet, where you are more likely to get injured. A shoe, although a piece of equipment, is less important than if you lost a glove or something like that. (
And yet, it's still illegal procedure to participate in the play without a shoe.
LaxRef
09-25-2005, 08:22 PM
As soon as the helmet came off and you still had possession, I would have stopped play immediately, let you put the helmet back on, keep possession and restart.
Well, it depends on whether anyone is close enough to play him:
A.R. 112. A1 is running down the field in his attack half of the field, with no player from Team B near him; he loses any required equipment and then shoots at goal, scoring a goal. RULING: Legal goal. Official should be ready to stop play to prevent a potential injury if any player of Team B is close enough to play A1.
goalieskcickay
09-25-2005, 08:26 PM
And yet, it's still illegal procedure to participate in the play without a shoe.
I meant, if someone stepped on your foot and knocked off your shoe, then you stopped, away from the area of play, and put it back on. Would this still be IP?
LaxRef
09-25-2005, 08:32 PM
I meant, if someone stepped on your foot and knocked off your shoe, then you stopped, away from the area of play, and put it back on. Would this still be IP?
As long as you aren't in a scrimmage area, it's not going to be called. You can move away and put the shoe back on.
HdGLaxWarrior
09-25-2005, 08:50 PM
So if I lost a shoe they would most likely not stop play?
LaxRef
09-25-2005, 08:56 PM
So if I lost a shoe they would most likely not stop play?
If you are in a scrimmage area, they will either stop play or throw a flag, depending on whether the other team has the ball.
If you are not in a scrimmage area, they won't stop play unless you move near the play or the play moves near you.
HdGLaxWarrior
09-25-2005, 08:59 PM
What if your running behind the play? Like your a middie trying to get back to D.
LaxRef
09-25-2005, 09:14 PM
What if your running behind the play? Like your a middie trying to get back to D.
If you participate in the play without a shoe, you will get flagged if the opponent has possession or the opponent will be awarded possession if the ball is loose.
"Participate in the play" is vague and up to the officials to determine. However, if you're missing a shoe and you're trying to cover someone, that's enough for me to call it.
AZReDWiNG
09-25-2005, 11:25 PM
Okay, this brings up a good question for me.
This happened to me in a game.
Middie A1 gets a fast break, but his shoe falls off. The play is immediately whistled dead, and there's an illegal procedure call. I thought it was the dumbest ruling in the world, but in retrospect I guess it was the correct one?
shrekjr
09-26-2005, 01:12 AM
Well, it depends on whether anyone is close enough to play him:
Agreed. Could be a tough decision as he's lining up for a shot!
Laxref_36
09-26-2005, 10:27 AM
Okay, this brings up a good question for me.
This happened to me in a game.
Middie A1 gets a fast break, but his shoe falls off. The play is immediately whistled dead, and there's an illegal procedure call. I thought it was the dumbest ruling in the world, but in retrospect I guess it was the correct one?
If no one is around him to check him (cause an injury), I'd let the play continue.
LaxRef
09-26-2005, 11:39 AM
Agreed. Could be a tough decision as he's lining up for a shot!
When in doubt, err on the side of safety. If there's a chance a defensive player could come through and hit him even after the shot is gone, I'm stopping the play.
Woodenstick
09-27-2005, 10:37 AM
I am a little confused as to when the whistle is blown just to stop play versus when a technical is called for playing without required equipment. It would seem that when a player is already missing required protective equipment and moves into the scrimmage area that is a penalty. Or when a player loses/breaks their crosse and keeps playing. But I thought when a player (O or D) accidentally losses protective equipment while already in the scrimmage area, that was just a stop play and not a penalty (NFHS rules). If that is right, then the call discussed by AZReDWING (penalty for losing a shoe while running with the ball) would be wrong under NFHS rules.
DanHS
09-27-2005, 10:48 AM
The shoe falling off was called in the Army/Navy game last spring. The Army player was in the scrimmage area with the resultant flag. The explanation to the bench was that he should have immediately left the scrimmage area.
tall_chris
09-27-2005, 12:46 PM
So what would the correct procedure be for a player if he lost a shoe for instance and had possession of the ball?
If he passed it and came running off the field, would he would get called.
Should he just drop the ball and come running off?
I am curious because this happens no matter how many times I tell players to tie their shoes. So what should the player do to avoid a call.
LaxRef
09-27-2005, 02:26 PM
So what would the correct procedure be for a player if he lost a shoe for instance and had possession of the ball?
If he passed it and came running off the field, would he would get called.
Should he just drop the ball and come running off?
I am curious because this happens no matter how many times I tell players to tie their shoes. So what should the player do to avoid a call.
See the post by eme above.
If your player loses a shoe while playing defense or during a loose ball, he needs to get his butt off the field without becoming involved in the play in any way.
If your player has the ball and loses a shoe, he can continue playing if he's open. If a defensive player is close enough to play him, the officials should stop play and give your team the ball (NCAA; I think NFHS is vague on this). If he passes the ball and then runs off the field (or gets out of the way and puts his shoe back on), no call.
And, as I said above, it's not entirely clear, but if A1 has the ball and A2 loses a shoe, I think A2 had better put the shoe on or get off the field; otherwise, I'm turning the ball over to team B.
tall_chris
09-27-2005, 02:31 PM
My apologies for not reading above...
I am sending myself to the box...
Free clear.. Goalie, top middle!