So we had our first game this weekend...

[TheKOB]

It all went well except for some problems with the refs (but when is that not the case from a coach's perspective)? The opposing team had a player who was apparently kicked out of UMBC and going to UNC next year. The main problem with him that I had was he was their faceoff man and utilized "The Plunger".

After two goals in 30 seconds (partly due to his illegal move, partly to my D's not communicating) I called the refs over for a chat. They said that they wouldn't call him as withholding the ball for a certain number of seconds. Later on one of our D yardsaled 'em (ie checked the stick out of his hands) and the ball remained in the stick. The D then flicked the stick a good 15-20 feet up in the air, and the stick landed, ball still inside. I eventually called for a stick check and it was illegal, 3 min releasable (for some reason). He apparently was allowed to remove the stick from the table and use it later on in the game because it was "fixable".

Now I don't really have a problem with the refs, they did a great job. Granted, my opinion would've been reversed had we not put our jocks on and gone on to win by about 8 goals. My main issue is with the plunger move. How exactly is it noticed? In my opinion (that which I shared with the refs during our powwow) is that it became illegal when the player clamped and picked up the ball with the back side of the head, thus sticking it in his stick and withholding it from play. Also, I noticed that I would've been a heap of mad coach had his stick not be found illegal, because you don't check to see if the ball sticks in the BACK of the stick during a stick check. Thankfully it stuck in the front side. Also, the releasable penalty I let go because my EMO couldn't score 6 on 5 for 3 minutes straight for whatever reason.

Anyways, there was a question about how a referee recognizes a plunger move and how he calls it. The rest is just kinda...well...venting.

[LaxRef]

After two goals in 30 seconds (partly due to his illegal move, partly to my D's not communicating) I called the refs over for a chat. They said that they wouldn't call him as withholding the ball for a certain number of seconds. Later on one of our D yardsaled 'em (ie checked the stick out of his hands) and the ball remained in the stick. The D then flicked the stick a good 15-20 feet up in the air, and the stick landed, ball still inside. I eventually called for a stick check and it was illegal, 3 min releasable (for some reason). He apparently was allowed to remove the stick from the table and use it later on in the game because it was "fixable".

Yikes! All kinds of problems here. First of all, if the ball sticks in the back, it's an immediate whistle and the ball is awarded to the opponents. Secondly, there are NO releasable stick penalties, and, third, the only "fixable" stick penalties are deep pocket and bottom edge of the mesh not firmly attached (both 1:00 NR).

My main issue is with the plunger move. How exactly is it noticed? In my opinion (that which I shared with the refs during our powwow) is that it became illegal when the player clamped and picked up the ball with the back side of the head, thus sticking it in his stick and withholding it from play.

Incorrect. A crosse in which the ball lodges in the back is not and illegal crosse. It's just if the ball lodges in the back then the ball is awarded to the opponent. There is no penalty for such a crosse.

How do we notice it? We see the ball lodged in the back of the stick.

Also, I noticed that I would've been a heap of mad coach had his stick not be found illegal, because you don't check to see if the ball sticks in the BACK of the stick during a stick check.

That's because we're not supposed to. If the ball sticks in the back, that does not make the crosse illegal.

BTW, you should discuss this with the head of officials. Be polite, tell them you won the game so it didn't make a difference, but that the officials made a few rulings that you know to be incorrect and you just want to make sure that all of the local officials know the correct rulings so this sort of thing doesn't cost a team a game later in the season. This type of feedback is usually much more welcome than the "We got screwed by the officials" variety! :chuckle:

[TheKOB]

BTW, you should discuss this with the head of officials. Be polite, tell them you won the game so it didn't make a difference, but that the officials made a few rulings that you know to be incorrect and you just want to make sure that all of the local officials know the correct rulings so this sort of thing doesn't cost a team a game later in the season. This type of feedback is usually much more welcome than the "We got screwed by the officials" variety! :chuckle:

I think the main problem was that they just saw them winning the faceoff, and they didn't really notice anything illegal going on...probably why a lot of players cheat on faceoffs - since they know they won't get noticed.

I guess this is the problem with the refs blowing the final whistle and leaving, they don't have any time for constructive criticism...but then again, it's probably all for the best!

I'll definitely let the league assignor know, althought there is no telling if they went though them. This was the first time I saw the plunger used though, so it probably is the same for the refs.

edit: in response to the ball lodged in the back being an illegal crosse....I think some players who utilize this move try to make it so that the ball gets stuck with the combination of plastic plus mesh, and not just plastic. Fortunately for the other teams, that's a pretty fine line to walk, and chances are that if it's illegal (ie ball sticks with sidewall and mesh) one way it's illegal the other. They actually got this particular rulebreaker because when held virtical (w/ head down towards the ground) the ball didn't come out.

[freestylewalkin]

good thing you won because as laxref stated the officialss were way off

[LaxRef]

I think the main problem was that they just saw them winning the faceoff, and they didn't really notice anything illegal going on...probably why a lot of players cheat on faceoffs - since they know they won't get noticed.

Maybe I should have said this before: I don't usually see the ball get stuck in the back of the crosse. What I see is the move the guy has to make to dislodge the ball from the back of the crosse (e.g., slamming it on the ground).

I guess this is the problem with the refs blowing the final whistle and leaving, they don't have any time for constructive criticism...but then again, it's probably all for the best!

It's probably not the best time for it.

[eme]

Plunger Move. FOGO man clamps down on the ball as it's on the ground...then proceeds to lift it off the ground with the ball coming up with the stick...my whistle is coming to my mouth just as he shakes the stick a bit to dislodge the ball from the upsidedown stick. TWEET. Withholding the ball from play. Award to other team.

It's an AR in the 2005 ncaa book and I can't remember if it's mentioned in the 2005 Fed. book but was one of those rules agreed upon at the convention, etc.

Stick check. Ref does only the "ball roll out" check on the front side of the stick.

[Laxref_36]

Plunger Move. FOGO man clamps down on the ball as it's on the ground...then proceeds to lift it off the ground with the ball coming up with the stick...my whistle is coming to my mouth just as he shakes the stick a bit to dislodge the ball from the upsidedown stick. TWEET. Withholding the ball from play. Award to other team.

It's an AR in the 2005 ncaa book and I can't remember if it's mentioned in the 2005 Fed. book but was one of those rules agreed upon at the convention, etc.

Stick check. Ref does only the "ball roll out" check on the front side of the stick.

I am on board with both of these things. The obvious thing that I look for, is does the ball defy gravity on the faceoff. If the ball is in the back of the stick and the ball defies gravity and doesnt fall out, the stick is pinched, and I'm turning the ball over.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Is it kosher to verify your suspicions by securing the offending stick and checking that what you just saw was actually mechanically induced?

If so, can you do a quick pocket check and issue a fix-it ticket?