Uniform versus equipment

[eme]

I have come to realize that uniform is distinct from equipment when looking at the rules and the penalties for infractions. Maybe it's even distinct in the eyes of the rules committee(s) for both ncaa and Fed.

Equipment covers sticks, shoes, mouthguard, gloves, helmets, arm pads, shoulder pads, goalie chest protector and throat guard.

Uniform covers jerseys, shorts, compression shorts, sweatpants and I guess the decals on jerseys and helmets.

In general (ncaa nd fed differ slightly), the penalty for an infraction of the former is a personal foul and the penalty for an infraction of the latter is a technical one.

[ploaref]

OK, i wanna hear stories from ANYbody who has ever called a "uniform" foul...

[WHEELAX2]

I'm guessing that it would have to be an obvious attempt by the player to "stand out" ....

[LaxRef]

OK, i wanna hear stories from ANYbody who has ever called a "uniform" foul...

Mostly, you try to catch it before the game and you send them off and tell them to get it corrected otherwise. But we had a coach in a close game wait until his team had possession and then he called for an equipment check on an opposing player who had the wrong color gloves (USLIA game), so we had to call it. (Note to eme: "uniform" also includes glove color.)

[eme]

I will just point out that page 63 2006 fed. book 1-9-2-A.
A1 in possession is noticed wearing non-matching compression shorts. Ruling: Technical foul.

Ouch.

As per LaxRef's USLIA game and the glove color. Close game? Near end? Coach's request? I'd be inclined to say, "Coach, no advantage gained that I can see. We should have caught it prior to the game. We didn't. But now that game has commenced, we ar eliving with it."

[freestylewalkin]

I'm guessing that it would have to be an obvious attempt by the player to "stand out" ....

or maybe he didnt want to spend a ton of money on new gloves if his current gloves suite him fine.

also that was a dirty call by the coach just let the player play the glove color isnt going to affect the outcome of the game

[3rdPersonPlural]

I, for one, can never see myself calling a uniform foul. EGADS!! Unless a player has a Jersey with no number or the same color as the opponent, I can see no advantage gained or distinction lost. Uniforms are to enable us refs (and I suppose the fans) to distinguish one team from the other and provide us with numbers so we can ID a player when necessary. As long as those functions are addressed, I'm not going to fuss.

[RYU]

As per LaxRef's USLIA game and the glove color. Close game? Near end? Coach's request? I'd be inclined to say, "Coach, no advantage gained that I can see. We should have caught it prior to the game. We didn't. But now that game has commenced, we are living with it."Although I agree the uniform violation has no affect on play & outcome of the game, I think it's wrong to disregard it and agree w/ LaxRef's decision to call it.

1. The gloves are obviously the wrong color. There's no gray area or room for interpretation there.

2. The coach has called you out on something that you, as a professional official, were responsible for catching before start of the game.

3. By refusing to call a by-the-book foul after the coach has pointed it out, you undermine your credibility and professionalism. You're basically saying that you'll disregard certain rules as you see fit or when it's convenient for you. There's a sarcastic retort refs used when their calls are being argued by coaches.

Well coach, what other rules would you like me to ignore today?

The door swings both ways. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Warrior]

A Ref yelled at me for wearing a tie die undershirt...so i got to play the whole game with just a Beater, and my gear + Uniform on in the freezing rain..god it was cold lol...

Though another game i was just told to make sure it was tucked in throughout the whole game...so idk...

[eme]

RYU said: "Although I agree the uniform violation has no affect on play & outcome of the game, I think it's wrong to disregard it and agree w/ LaxRef's decision to call it.

1. The gloves are obviously the wrong color. There's no gray area or room for interpretation there.

2. The coach has called you out on something that you, as a professional official, were responsible for catching before start of the game.

3. By refusing to call a by-the-book foul after the coach has pointed it out, you undermine your credibility and professionalism. You're basically saying that you'll disregard certain rules as you see fit or when it's convenient for you. There's a sarcastic retort refs used when their calls are being argued by coaches.

Well coach, what other rules would you like me to ignore today?

The door swings both ways. Two wrongs don't make a right."


I can certainly see your point of view and have been on both sides of the issue having made those kind of calls and not made those kind of calls and gotten praised/criticized for both.

I still think I would come down on side of not calling this one. Would I be wrong by the rulebook? Yes. But the situation is a little akin to a trail official, after a Goal by A, coming in and waving off the goal because an A player was standing in the coaches area just prior to the goal going in. Yes, he's not supposed to be there. Yes, it's a technical foul by rule. Yes, by rule you wave off goals preceded by a technical foul by the scoring team. I feel you should use the rulebook to help adjudicate a lacrosse game and not use a lacrosse game to help prove or fit a rulebook. In the wrong-color-glove
scenario being discussed:

1. The officials missed it at the beginning of the game.
2. At no point in the game was the issue one of safety or advantage/fairness.
3. I feel the coach was trying to win the game, not on the field, but by being a better "rule lawyer" than the other coach.

I have no problem with calling the player to task before the game about his gloves.
I just wouldn't feel right driving home after a game in which a game-turning call was made after 40 kids had played their hearts out for 45 minutes on a color violation call that involved neither safety nor advantage gained. A shoe coming off is a safety issue.
No mouthpiece is a safety issue. Pocket too deep is advantage gained. This one is neither.

[laxfan25]

The situation reminds me of a Stanley Cup game a few years back, I think between the Red Wings and Avalanche. Late in a crucial game the Avs coach called for a stick check on one of the Wings. He had too much warp in his blade, and received a penalty which caused them to lose the game, and went on to lose the series. I'm sure the Avs coach knew, or thought that the stick was illegal much earlier in the game or series, but chose to call him on it at the most advantageous time.
In that case though it was an advantage gained with the stick, rather than just having his gloves be the wrong color red.

[Alex]

Mostly, you try to catch it before the game and you send them off and tell them to get it corrected otherwise. But we had a coach in a close game wait until his team had possession and then he called for an equipment check on an opposing player who had the wrong color gloves (USLIA game), so we had to call it. (Note to eme: "uniform" also includes glove color.)

Interesting, in a USLIA game I was at the Minnesota coach called for an equipment check in OT (or at the end of the game, but it was OT if I remember correctly), and the UGA player was flagged for having a non-matching undershirt (think it was black instead of grey). I'm not one to pull the BS/desperation sympathy card, he outsmarted our team, didn't know this was a more widespread issue. Perhaps several levels should be used (ie. it's way more egregious for a wrong colored helmet than an undershirt as far as bush-league vs. professionalism arguments go). But a better resolution would be have the opposing coach inspect the other team before the game (or a representative from the opposing team), and if there's nothing there then the game goes on. If it's not blatant enough to flag before the game, then it should be subtle enough to be permissible throughout its duration.

[CTLaxer]

3. I feel the coach was trying to win the game, not on the field, but by being a better "rule lawyer" than the other coach.

That's part of the game. It's part of coaching. It's called being outcoached. It's my job as a coach to make sure all of my players have the proper equipment and uniforms in order to play. I certify to officials before a game that all my players safety equipment meets the required standards and that each player is using legal equipment. It's also my job as a coach to be on the look out for the opposing teams players in order to see if I notice any violations that can help win the game.

Is this how coaches like to win the game? No. Is it a tool used to help the outcome of a game just like a certain play or stx gear over brine gear? Yes.

I pride myself as a coach on my knowledge of the rules and teach my kids accordingly. Now, if another coach doesn't know the rules as well as I do or doesn't enforce them as I do with his/her team, does that mean that their team shouldn't be disadvantaged by their coaches/players lack of knowledge? It's part of what being a good coach is about, knowing the rules and using them to your advantage. How many coaches tell their kids that once they go offsides and are gonna be called for it to just get into the play and get the ball for a stoppage? How many coaches call equipment checks on players they think have illegal gear after a goal so they can get it wiped off the board? If you don't know the rules you won't be doing these things, and your team will be appropriately disadvantaged because of it.

And randomly, here's another hockey story: The NY Rangers and the Washington Capitals played the other night and it got into OT. NY's Jagr played for the Capitals before being traded, so they all knew his stick was illegal. They waited until OT started before asking for a stick check. Low and behold, it's illegal. The caps ended up losing the game in a 15 round shootout (man what a sweet game winning goal) but they were totally justified in doing what they did as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, if it's something so small and trivial, it shouldn't be an issue for a player to fix it. Gloves the wrong color? Borrow a teammates and switch with someone as they come on and off. Undershirt/compression shorts not the same color? Just take them off, suffer through the heat/cold for your incompetence. There's really no excuse to have these things called on you because they're so easily changable, so if someone actually comes out with improper gear/uniform...they deserve the penalty in my eyes.

[CoachK]

Here's a few for you....

My college team has personally been called for our jerseys having numbers that were 6 inches on the front, I believe they have to be 8 (while I was playing not coaching). We were given a 3 min. UR, but allowed to play with them... weird.

I was personally called for not having the sticker on the back of my helmet. As it turns out, removing the sticker voids the warranty, hence it is not legal equipment, 3 min UR, helmet could not return to the field.

I pointed out to the ref a players gloves 3 minutes into the game... We have to pay for gloves as a team, why shouldn't they? He had the wrong color gloves, green was no where near a team color. The ref threatened me with, "If you want me to call it technical, I'll call it technical, and you won't like the outcome." He proceed to take over the game, the ref that is, and we lost by 2 to an inferior team. We had 23 penalties to their 3, our season high... Our other high was 6, we're a small finesse team, the official was a disgrace. Sent a tape into the national authority, no response. We refuse to play games now with that official, enless our head referee is present.

I would much rather have the first 2 cases than you seat of the pants officials going. Use the book, its as black and white as it gets. Your judgement doesn't supercede the book, it allows you to use it. There are only 3 officials in my years of playing and coaching that I do not respect in the slightest, and I'll do anything I can to get you away from the field if you can't use the book. Do you need to be perfect? absolutely not! Can you miss things? Yeah its hard. Can you get a call wrong/misinterprut a rule? Yeah, we all do it. I did it last week. Can you tell me to my face you're not going to go with the book? No, F you. We play with NCAA or NFHS rules, not your personal rules. As bad as it sounds, that book is the law on the field. I cringe when I hear officials make "requests," which is similar to when your wife says "sure you can go out with the guys, I'll stay home alone with the kids."

[LaxRef]

My college team has personally been called for our jerseys having numbers that were 6 inches on the front, I believe they have to be 8 (while I was playing not coaching). We were given a 3 min. UR, but allowed to play with them... weird.

Yeah, I'm not sure how to handle that one (illegal number size). He seems to have made up a ruling to cover the situation; in principle, every guy on your team is committing a technical foul every time he steps on the field, so he gave you one penalty and said "Let's play." That's similar to what we do for an illegal field, although I think the illegal field has much more impact on the game and deserves the stiffest penalty possible.

In any case, I don't think they got the rule right. The 2006 NCAA Rules say"

b. Jerseys. The jerseys shall have numbers that are at least 6 inches high and centered on the front. Jersey numbers of at least 8 inches in height also must be centered on the back. It is recommended strongly that the jersey numbers be increased to heights of no less than 10 inches on the front and 12 inches on the back when team jerseys are replaced.

Thus, I find it hard to believe that the old rule called for 8 inches on the front. And when you're going to give a penalty this harsh, you'd better be sure you have the right rule!

On something like this (where it really was illegal), I'd be inclined to say, "Coach, they've bought the jerseys and they can't change them now. I can't penalize every player. I'm going to call one technical right now, and then I'm going to inform the league that they need to address the situation. I'm sure you'll agree that this is not an issue that confers a competitive advantage, and I'm sure you don't want to win the game by exploiting technicalities. If you really want to press the issue, we can call the president of the league and the head of officials on a cell phone, but I don't think you're going to do any better."

I was personally called for not having the sticker on the back of my helmet. As it turns out, removing the sticker voids the warranty, hence it is not legal equipment, 3 min UR, helmet could not return to the field.

Wrong call. Even if you do rule it to be illegal, an illegal helmet is 1:00 NR.