CLUB LOYALTY IN AUSTRALIA

[Minotaur]

New topic, fellas.

What does club loyalty in Australia mean to you? Is it ok to change clubs other than when you change addresses? Under what circumstances? Case in point: Cam Shepherd was recently picked for the Aussie squad....he has made it public knowledge that he left Surrey Park to be coached by the current Aussie coach, Murry Keen. He and Damien Arnell(another journeyman on the Melbourne club scene)both left Surrey to play at Malvern for Murry. Then left Malvern the next year for Caulfield. They have stated to this writer that they followed Murry to bolster their chances of making the national team. Other notable past club journeymen have been former Aussie coach, Ken Nichols when he went to Surrey to bolster his national team ambitions, Tim Purdie and Tim Murphy to Camberwell after disagreements with their original clubs....I'm sure there are others.

Anyway, lets bat this topic around!

[cannon]

I understand their inclination to move where they will have more potential for success. I dont think moving clubs is an inherently bad thing especially if one moves away from a strong club ie Williamstown or Eltham to a weaker club. Cases in point have been Chris Miles, who in my opinion with a little effort could be among the Aussie team, moving from Williamstown to Footscray and really anchoring the clubs Defense. Alan Lewer, Rod Maher and Adam Vincent moving from Willy to Altona and winning them a flag in 2004 and coming second in 2005. Unfortunatley alot of guys chase success instead of trying to bulid a successful culture among their team mates. I guarantee you there will be some moves from your Caulfields and Malverns to MCC in the next couple of years.

My personal inclination though is that unless I had a fallling out with significant numbers of people at my club that I wouldn't want to move. And this has been an issue for me as a few clubs have offered me to come to their club. In the end I think however that I play for fun and fun for me is playing with the guys I have grown up with and played with since i was 8. That and I live around the corner!

[Jesse]

Does Murphy and Purdie currently play for Camberwell?
When did they move?

[aussielax]

Minitour I think Cam is a mamber of TLF, So perhaps he can explain his reasons to us.

As far as club loyalty goes, I think their are circumstaces under which it is in a players best interest to move club's eg. A guy who is playing Div 1 for a team that has a good state league team may move clubs to a club with a weaker state league side. However i think when a club has a side like the one malvern's 02 state league team with 5 or so players that they have poached from other clubs it's not good for the game.

Personaly i doubt i would ever move club's, Unless their was a very very good reason for me to move. I've been playing for camberwell for 6 season's now and would find it very hard to move.

[aussielax]

Does Murphy and Purdie currently play for Camberwell?
When did they move?

No they both played for camberwell 10 odd years ago after Surrey attempted to re-locate the club.

They are both retired now i think.

[lacrosselover]

I dont think u need to change clubs at all to be successfull....

there are plenty of examples of guys making it from 'weaker' clubs...

Rhiain Barr made the all-world team from division 1...

[Jesse]

No they both played for camberwell 10 odd years ago after Surrey attempted to re-locate the club.

They are both retired now i think.
Ok.
Murphy is in the US.
And Purdie is coaching Under 13's.

[Jesse]

Personaly i doubt i would ever move club's, Unless their was a very very good reason for me to move. I've been playing for camberwell for 6 season's now and would find it very hard to move.
I wouldnt move from Surey unless somthing huge happened.
I would probably then move to Camberwell.

[Minotaur]

I understand their inclination to move where they will have more potential for success. I dont think moving clubs is an inherently bad thing especially if one moves away from a strong club ie Williamstown or Eltham to a weaker club. Cases in point have been Chris Miles, who in my opinion with a little effort could be among the Aussie team, moving from Williamstown to Footscray and really anchoring the clubs Defense. Alan Lewer, Rod Maher and Adam Vincent moving from Willy to Altona and winning them a flag in 2004 and coming second in 2005. Unfortunatley alot of guys chase success instead of trying to bulid a successful culture among their team mates. I guarantee you there will be some moves from your Caulfields and Malverns to MCC in the next couple of years.

My personal inclination though is that unless I had a fallling out with significant numbers of people at my club that I wouldn't want to move. And this has been an issue for me as a few clubs have offered me to come to their club. In the end I think however that I play for fun and fun for me is playing with the guys I have grown up with and played with since i was 8. That and I live around the corner!
Well said cannon. Playing with the people you grew up with...the glue that bonds clubs. Does the VLA have any role in regulating the movement of players between clubs?

[cannon]

Not sure about VLA regulation per se, but they have to be cleared by a committee. The question is wether its a rubber stamp issue or not. I think clubs actually signing clearances is more of an issue

[lightningmvp]

in tassie we only change clubs to keep the association and the league fair. this way we all still have fun cos we're all mates and know each other cos its not a big association. We just want our association to be bigger and better so we all work together to keep the players that are playing now to keep wanting to play. Without players...theres no lax :(

[Doski]

in tassie we only change clubs to keep the association and the league fair. this way we all still have fun cos we're all mates and know each other cos its not a big association. We just want our association to be bigger and better so we all work together to keep the players that are playing now to keep wanting to play. Without players...theres no lax :(

the association wouldn't grow without club numbers. Melbourne uni also struggles with fielding consistent numbers as many of you know. Club loyalty always plays in our minds but there is the temptation of playing for a stronger club (ie. one that plays at a level higher than that of div 2).

very interesting topic but what do you guys think:

1) stay with melb uni, my 1st senior team and one i've been with for 4 seasons. for the growth and developement of the club

2)persue a spot in a div1, state league and/or hopefully a rep team (eg state) and learning from new coaches?

it's a bit self-centered but even ppl like cannon have encouraged me to change for the last yr (at least!)

[cannon]

You guys must all know that doski, with a little coaching has the natural athletic ability to play middie for many clubs in the VLA. i understand the desire to move (because i played a year at Melb Uni by way of a law that said I had to!, but it was fun anyway).

What you have to weigh up is, a)could you see, with some work, melb uni working its way up the ranks again? b) would you be happy at a new club(DO SOME ACTIVE USA and Canadien recruiting!? c)style of game and d)liklihood of the new club being receptive to you.

like i said, doski could flourish at a new club...or maybe just needs a new coach/some motivated teammates!

[lacrosselover]

depends if you want the weight of trying to re-establish a whole sporting club on your shoulders....

I knew it was only a matter of time before I would be playing SL again...It's a diff story for you, so if you feel like you want to play at a higher level and can't see your team playing at that level in the near future, well, sometimes it has to be about you and what kind of lacrosse you think you should be playing...

Cannon made a good point about a club accepting you, some players think they can move clubs and everyone will be happy with it without consultation...

[endoftheline]

Personally i hope that i never had to change clubs but i might be forced. Theres other goalies at malvern so in 6-7 years if i cant get a game in Malverns top team i might move to another weaker divi 1 or divi 2 club. Either that or i'll have to learn to play on the field. This would be like Chris Campanella who moved from malvern to chadstone to play divi 2. What do you guys think about this, is it acceptable for a goalie to change clubs in order to get a game and avoid playing on the field.

[lacrosselover]

Or you could just train hard and be the best goalie!! instead of playing div 2 for another club, that would be fun...pfft

[pumba]

Eltham Eltham Eltham!

I am an eltham boy and i doubt il be moving! If i had to move it would be to moreland (not the strongest club) But that who we play warriors with and the only team who have some good kids who we all get along with

[piglet]

Gordon Purdy had to move to Chadstone when he was a young fella as he could not get a game in Surrey's State League team. At that time Surrey was very strong with at least 12 Australian players in the team as he was only 17 and the new kid on the block and still developing his game. The move was the best thing for him and the rest is history. He moved clubs to move up.
Murph got pissed off because he got dropped for the Grand Final after a period of extened illness. This was not a good reason to move. This was emotional and irrational.
I am favour of people at Melbourne Uni having to play for Melbourne Uni. We must put alot of effort into this club as we could replicate the American experience where players are on site and can train 5 days a week and play the other 1 or 2 days. This club has incridible potential if we could just unlock it. Alot of the students that attend this Uni will be our high flyers of the future lets make the most of them.

Unfortunately an awsome player by the name of Nick Skews refused to play for Melb Uni in the late 80's - he was manipulated by others into thinking it was not in his intrests. He was refused a clearance by the permit committe and he finished up throwing the game in completly. He would have EASILY made the Aussie team throughout the 90's and could have gone all world as a middie.

[Doski]

many stories similar to nick skews i bet. i do not have to be playing for melbourne uni as i do not (and never have) attended the uni.
melbourne uni over the last 4 yrs (from what i remember)
2002 - last place of div 1 ( 2nd of 3 divisions)
2003 - last place of div 2 (3rd of 3 divisions)
2004 - mid table div 2 (still the lowest div)
2005 - 4th in div 2 (3rd div of 4 divisions), including a team which was lowly ranked in div3, the lowest div

so yes, the club has improved greatly, hard to tell what will happen the next season, no word of a coach, player turnover is high, i simply do not want to platau at this level as a player, i do not want to see what was once a strong club die.
As a player i do feel like i've progressed in this game since the 'cannon' days (2002) but the question remains, can i improve faster with a real club, surrounded with better players?

It's great that people pay respect to melbourne uni as a club these days, i feel teams make an effort to negate our style of play for example. hehe this forum topic has me started on a personal diary here! I just feel that the situation at melbourne uni is so unique, keen to hear responses, criticisms etc... i'm not thin skinned and i'm sure the club has heard worse than what u've got to say.

[Doski]

btw, i am confident that i can rumble with the state league players (big call i know) as there have been individuals from clubs who have expressed interest for myself and my brother. still a student of the game i stress though

[endoftheline]

doski if your serious about trying to make the vic or even australian team then you've got the best chance if your playing at the highest level. Melbourne high are improving but its going to be a while before there in state league or divi 1 so by then you might of missed your chance. Depends whats more important to you playing with your mates and helping your club or personal glory.

[Doski]

glory is a word that should be reserved for teams...and winning
it's about personal development

[Corduroy]

Jesse,

Settle down son. Not having any association with either club, but having closes mates who play for both and having played agiants both for 25 odd years, you would have to nail my nuts to the wall before I chose Camberwell over Surrey. Just have a look at the make up of their club, their history and legendary players. I would give anything to have the likes of G.Fox, G.Purdie, C.Toomey, G.Tillotson (to name a few) to share their experience with our guys.

[endoftheline]

Or you could just train hard and be the best goalie!! instead of playing div 2 for another club, that would be fun...pfft
the thing is there joffa who could easily play state league for 8 more years and then theres ryan sparks assuming he comes back permanently from USA who will take joffas place next then theres casey whos 2 years older than me then me then a good goalie one year younger than me and then a goalie younger than him. So theres lots of goalies and id be stupid to say i can beat sparksy so im probably one day going to have to move clubs, be content with divi 2 or learn to play attack or something.

[Corduroy]

Couldn't agree more about Purdie. He left Surrey b/c the 2 Tillo brothers were in the middle and he couldn't quite push them aside. Him going to Chaddy not only launched his career, but from memory gave Chaddy a birth in the 1985 GF and then finals for the years to follow. He won the state and national best and fairest then went to Adelphi and really was one of the first Aussie players to make it on the US Collegiate stage. The rest as you say is history and he will go down as probably the Australian who has played in the most World Champs for a very long time (86,90,94,98,2002). My mail is that when he returns to OZ, he'll return to Surrey, b/c that is where his roots are and his family are based.

Just on the whole changing club thing. I have very mixed feelings about this topic. There are many good reasons to make a change and a lot of people I am sure have good reason to do so. I would say, if your going to up and leave, do it once and once only. People can accept players, officials, familes etc changing clubs, but when players begin to prostitute themselves purely to chase a flag or a representative guersey - that is poor form. Case in point would have to be Damian Arnell. The guy started at a relatively late age and in 10 years has played at Camberwell, Chaddy, Surrey, Malvern and Caulfield. That has to be a record. The problem with this is the kid probably doesn't do alot around the 'club of the day' and is there soley to serve himself. This is not what the Aussie Lax foundations are built on. There are many years of hard work, committment and dedication from individial players and officials to get a club to where they are at. I find it a hard pill to swallow, when a player comes along, jumps on the gravy train for a year or two, then moves onto the next sucker of a club. If Arnell wanted to come to our club next year (regardless of how good he might be), I would not take him. I'd rather take a kid of lesser skill, but greater history, greater committment and one who you really knows will appreciate a flag because of his dedication to the 'holistic' club. Anyway - the're my thoughts tonight. My prediction is that Arnell will give the game away and disappear. Anyone want to bet???

[wittyno12]

New topic, fellas.

What does club loyalty in Australia mean to you? Is it ok to change clubs other than when you change addresses? Under what circumstances? Case in point: Cam Shepherd was recently picked for the Aussie squad....he has made it public knowledge that he left Surrey Park to be coached by the current Aussie coach, Murry Keen. He and Damien Arnell(another journeyman on the Melbourne club scene)both left Surrey to play at Malvern for Murry. Then left Malvern the next year for Caulfield. They have stated to this writer that they followed Murry to bolster their chances of making the national team. Other notable past club journeymen have been former Aussie coach, Ken Nichols when he went to Surrey to bolster his national team ambitions, Tim Purdie and Tim Murphy to Camberwell after disagreements with their original clubs....I'm sure there are others.

Anyway, lets bat this topic around!

Club loyalty should be very important for everyone is Australian lacrosse. Although alot of players do move to stronger clubs maiy in juniors in south australia to help further their lacrosse careers. So eventually strong juniors clubs like brighton and glenelg will get stronger and stronger while others will struggle mainly for numbers.

[usetoplay]

There are a lot of players out their with great ability who are often overlooked for representative teams due to lack of correct coach exposure. And i feel that there should be some kind of selection criteria put in place to aid the selection of these players. However if a player is willing enough to change clubs in order to be selected, best of luck to them.

[usetoplay]

Its gonna be a long long while, mate they are looking terrible.

[usetoplay]

coaches wont help you mate, all you need it a few motivated team mates to get something back from your lacrosse experience. Do some research and share it with your team mates. Im sure they will be stoked you took the time out to maybe make more fun at training and game day.

[usetoplay]

The shopping is also much much better at chadstone, I am sure this played a big part in gordons decision to move to this area.

[usetoplay]

I didn't even no there were teams in tassie. How many at the moment. Are you any good. Where abouts are the teams from?

[aussielax]

usetoplay there is no need to have 5 posts in a row, Use the edit button and extend our first post insted of having a new one.