Jr. A, Sr. B, NLL, CLA, what?

[chslax538]

I was just curious if someone could explain how the box leagues are organized and how they are different, and who plays in what and where they are. Its pretty confusing.

[Hackstall]

Jr. A., B., C., are for people under 21. Junior A are obviously the best players. I don't know about elsewhere but in Ontario Junior A teams include Whitby Warriors, Six Nations Arrows, etc. These are amateur players that don't get paid. Jr. B includes teams such as the Clarington Green Gaels.

The NLL is a professional league for players over 19 (possibly 18). They mostly get drafted from Jr. teams and the players are paid for their trouble (although peanuts compared to other pro sports).

Sr. A and B are semi-pro leagues for players over 21. Some of the players get paid and some don't. Their season is in the spring and summer so many NLL players also play Senior A or B. The Senior A league in Ontario is called the MILL (Major Indoor Lacrosse League). Teams include Brooklin Redmen, Awkwasanse Thunder, etc. You can often see prominent NLL players play in these leagues in small arenas for a few dollars. John Tavares usually plays for the Thunder. A couple of years ago Gavin Prout played for Brooklin. Gee Nash stunk it up for Brooklin last year.

I don't know what the Senior B league is called here in Ontario but it is basically a goon league for guys that can't make Senior A. I have quite a few friends who play or either have played Senior B. It gets pretty rough. Teams include St. Clair Storm, Arthur Aces, Brooklin Merchants. These guys don't get paid much but in recent years it has not become uncommon that they pay their players a couple thousand. Last year Jim Veltman was paid $10,000 to play Sr. B. for the Ajax-Pickering Rock.

With some of the teams I named, I guess it is no secret that I am from the Durham Region!

[Stynchface]

You are right; it is pretty confusing for someone that did not grow up in the system.

Jr "A" is the top league for players 21 years old and under
Jr "B" is the next level for under 21 players
Sr "A"/Major and Sr. "B" follow the same dynamics in terms of skill, but is typically for players over 21. I played Major as a call up when I was 19, so there are often exceptions.

CLA is the governing body of Canadian Lacrosse, not unlike USLacrosse

NLL is a modified version od Canadian Box. Many NLL players play on Canadian Major or Sr "B" teams in the summer; some play Jr "A" or possible Jr "B". When I played Jr "A" I remember playing against Kim Squire and Colin Doyle (among others) when they were on NLL rosters.

[WHEELAX2]

hmm.. senior b goon league for guys who can't make A???

I play B, and never even tried to get on an A team.. I"m no goon, and I know I could hack it in A with no problems..

[#15Roadies]

There is no Junior 'C' in Ontario - for players who opt to not play junior lacrosse, the next step up in minor lacrosse is called 'Intermediate' for players 17-21. There are rule differences between junior & minor lacrosse.

Senior A in Ontario is called 'Major Series Lacrosse' not MILL.

The Senior B league in Ontario & the Can-Am Senior B league in NY are not "goon" leagues and have some highly skilled players who choose to play in those leagues. Some are not at the MSL playing level or have jobs that prevent an MSL type commitment or cannot make the MSL travel commitment.

[nemesislax]

senior B isn't a goon league really....it's just rougher than A because of the slight decline in skill level.
Ontario senior A...or Major Series Lacrosse is essentially the NLL's players playing for their hometown teams and by Canadian rules. So being able to say that you can "hack it in A" is pretty much saying you have NLL calibre skills. And Wheel, from what I've read about your tryouts and such, you probably could.

[Hackstall]

I wasn't saying that all players are goons....but from the numerous games that I have attended and watched on TV, fighting and especially cheap shots are very, very common. I have been at games where lowlife fathers are on the floor beating the bejesus out of someone while their 5 year old kids are cheering for blood from the stands. I have even seen these guys showboat for their kids while they hurt someone or beat them up. Let's face it, some of these guys aren't the brightest minds. What are these idiots teaching their kids?

I have been at Senior B games where guys blind-sided other guys 10 or 15 seconds after the whistle and seriously injured them. I have seen games where there were 3, 4 or 5 guys in each penalty box for the ENTIRE game.

I have seen games where there were so many fights that each team was left with 5 or 6 guys left to play it out.

You never see that stuff in Junior or Senior A.

I am not saying anything about individual players because like I said, I have friends that play Senior B and they are great guys with good skill who usually don't get involved in the extra-curriculars. But, with any sport, as you move down the leagues, it tends to get rougher and the players tend to be a bit more psychotic. Lacrosse is no exception...and possible the best example of this.

[WHEELAX2]

nah, I know what you're saying.. you definately have to watch your back

[nemesislax]

10-15 seconds after the whistle is a little exagerrated...thats actually a long time when you're on the floor
the next play is usually started up within 7-9 seconds
I understand why you're saying though...cheap shots do come after the whistle sometimes.

[WHEELAX2]

now if I could just get my helmet off!

[Hackstall]

I'm not kidding when I say 10-15 seconds. In one particularly rough game I was at, a penalty was called. This ate up a few seconds. One of the players from the home team walked towards his bench, he got about 5 feet from the door when an opposing player literally out of nowhere and for seemingly no reason, ran 20 feet or so and labeled him from behind into the boards. I have never in my life witnessed a cheap shot as bad as this. And I have played hundreds of hockey and lacrosse games (if not thousands). Of course the guy who got hit had multiple injuries. It made the Todd Bertuzzi incident look like a joke.

[northBC_boxla]

Todd Bertuzzi incident was the single worst thing to ever happen to sports Period. End of story.

[RockStar]

Todd Bertuzzi incident was the single worst thing to ever happen to sports Period. End of story.

It was the worst thing that ever happened during NHL game play, and Bert should still be sitting at least for this season, maybe for good.

(He served about 20 games if I'm not mistaken. That's pathetic considering the whole thing was pre-meditated for three weeks, and that he ended another guy's career with a dirty cheap shot. Besides, the hit on Naslund was borderline clean, Naslund just got caught with his head down and got a shoulder in the jaw for his trouble. It happens.)

As far as worst thing during (major level) sports......nah.

-You still hear about soccer matches where tonnes of fans get killed in riots or stadium collapses.

-That Indiana-Detroit NBA game where the players rushed the fans in the stands was also a new low

[Hackstall]

Also the Alex Perezhogin stick swinging incident in the AHL last year where he was suspended for the entire season.

Or how about Eddie Shore's hit from behind on Ace Bailey that ended Bailey's career as he sustained a fractured skull and other injuries?

How about Dale Hunter's cheap shot on Pierre Turgeon after Turgeon scored in the 1993 playoffs?

How about Chris Chelios elbowing Brian Propp in the head in the 1989 playoffs?

I know this was accidental, but in 1989 when Clint Malarchuk had his throat slit by a skate that caught his jugular vein, there was so much blood that he is lucky to still be alive. If you have never seen it, here's some video. http://home.comcast.net/~kcifone/Hockey/Malarchuk-short.wmv

To say that the Bertuzzi incident is the worst to ever occur in sports is a ridiculous thing to say. It isn't even the worst thing to happen in NHL hockey. I could name so many other hockey incidents that occured in other leagues besides the NHL and AHL. For example there was that incident a few years ago where a player was down on all fours and another player viciously speared him in the face with his stick. That was much worse than the Bertuzzi incident.

[RockStar]

Also the Alex Perezhogin stick swinging incident in the AHL last year where he was suspended for the entire season.....

You know what?

I still think Bertuzzi's cheap shot was the worst one.

Bad stuff happens in the heat of the moment, and sometimes that stuff is nearly unforgiveable (Perezhogin, McSorley chopping Brashear, etc.). This stuff is terrible, but it also typically happens later on the same shift, or like one or two shifts later.....there's only a few minutes to think things through.

Bert had three weeks to think this one over. And that's why I think it was the most classless display of arse-holery hockey has ever seen. What we have is a pre-meditated aggravated assault, and if it happened anywhere but the NHL, Bert might be doing hard time for it!

Now, that said, if I remember right, Bert did "try" to pick a face-to-face fight with Moore earlier that game.

I wish Moore had just stood toe-to-toe and thrown them down earlier in the game so that this disaster might never have happened.

One possible moral of this story - Don't run from a fight unless you're outnumbered.

[Hackstall]

I added a few more incidents to the above.

I disagree with respect to the Bertuzzi incident. Sure, he had time to think it over, but I doubt he pre-meditated the exact way he was going to do it. It was still in the heat of the moment, in a way. I also believe that it was the result that people tend to focus on when they determine the viciousness of the incident. If you think about it, the act wasn't all that bad...the result is what makes it bad. There is a good chance that 9 times out of 10, that result wouldn't have happened and Moore would have just got up and walked away and no one would have really thought too much more about it. Therefore, the result was terrible. But the act wasn't so terrible. In light of this, the stick swinging incident is much more vicious. The other incident I named above where that guy speared the downed player in the face is much, much more vicious.

Now there is no denying that you are definitely to be held accountable for the consequences of your actions. I do not defend Bertuzzi at all...I never really liked him anyway. But I think just based on the act itself, it is not as vicious as others.

A couple of years ago in PEI, a guy punched a kid in the face, one punch, and it killed him. If you look at the result, you would say that is bad. But people fight everyday and this rarely happens. So the act itself isn't that bad. Other times, people shoot someone multiple times and the victims lives. Which incident is worse? The answer is all from the perspective in which you look at it. Is shooting someone worse than punching them? Or is someone dying worse than someone who is seriously wounded?