Starting a DI Team - What does it take?

[plainslacrosse]

What does it take to start a DI men’s (and women’s) lacrosse team from scratch at a school that has little to no history with lacrosse? A few of us were just kind shooting the breeze about what would be a good spring sport that has the potential to produce revenue. We agreed that Lacrosse could potentially make a lot of sense: get established now before the game really takes off across the Midwest and South. Our school has an established hockey fan base that would take easily to lacrosse.

Is there any school that is a model for starting a DI lacrosse team?
What would be the startup costs?
Any idea of what annual costs (other than scholarships) would be?
Would there be many prospective coaches out there willing to take on such a task?
How difficult would it be to be accepted into a lacrosse conference – would the Great Western Lacrosse Conference take all-comers?
Would the lacrosse world welcome a non-traditional geographical location?
How difficult is it to attract walk-on players if the local lacrosse talent pool is small?

Thanks - More curious than anything.

[GBaschski]

Well you definitely picked a promising, growing sport. If you don't mind..what school is this?

[RottingMind13]

u probably have to start through d3 before u can eventually go to d1 other than that, i have no clue

[cannonslax624]

Look at Bellarmine. They started a D1 program and did fantastically in their first year, granted against mostly D3 teams. Look into Robert Morris/Bellarmine/schools like that to see what it takes. Email their sports information department, I'm sure they can help.

[LaxZeppelin22]

Bellarmine is awsome and i think that they have what it takes to be great

[Eclipse]

LaxZeppelin you need to stop.
Anyway To start a D1 school you are going to need alot more school support then anything else. Its not like high school whrere you get 50 guys to play and done! Starting a d1 school requires a coach, who then does all the recruiting, etc etc. Yo be honest if your school could have had lax it probably would have, but certain restrictions like title 9 probably stopping that. D1 lacrosse requires alot of $$ from the school...and they may not want to for it out. Good luck

[PilotShinjiIkar]

What does it take to start a DI men’s (and women’s) lacrosse team from scratch at a school that has little to no history with lacrosse? A few of us were just kind shooting the breeze about what would be a good spring sport that has the potential to produce revenue. We agreed that Lacrosse could potentially make a lot of sense: get established now before the game really takes off across the Midwest and South. Our school has an established hockey fan base that would take easily to lacrosse.

Is there any school that is a model for starting a DI lacrosse team?
What would be the startup costs?
Any idea of what annual costs (other than scholarships) would be?
Would there be many prospective coaches out there willing to take on such a task?
How difficult would it be to be accepted into a lacrosse conference – would the Great Western Lacrosse Conference take all-comers?
Would the lacrosse world welcome a non-traditional geographical location?
How difficult is it to attract walk-on players if the local lacrosse talent pool is small?

Thanks - More curious than anything.

Well you guys are in the GWLL....humm can you guys really afford D1 lax? Dont know how much it is but obviously its alot since Title IX prevents many schools from having it. I figure itd be much better to start at D2 or D3 or maybe even a club first. And honestly I think its a good idea but I'm not sure it depends on what school and wether you guys have a club team. I mean as far as I know theres no D2 or D3 and without a doubt d1 team beyond the Mississippi. I'm at Iowa State and we have a club team but its rag tag and people here know what lax is but football is bigger here than it seems back in Florida where I'm from. Pretty much all there is is football and everything else is just intramural for everyone.....welll maybe except for basketball and wrestling (OH GOD WRESTLING). In central florida St. Leos a small college recently started a D2 program and attracted alot of players and attention in the area even though they werent giving out scholarships so far but thats because central florida and Florida has had lacrosse for over 30+ years. So I'd say since your school is far out there and has little local standing itd be best obviously not to jump into it. Either start out club or go NCAA and not give out scholarships but get your name out there and attract players with the possbility of getting scholarships and playing NCAA later on. Like what St. Leos did but at a slower pace since you guys dont have any local lacrosse. I did research for a paper and Florida had over 70+ boys varsity HS lacrosse teams and 75% started with the last 3 to 4 years. So they have explosive growth and a expanding talent pool. Main hurdle for you guys will be getting your name out there and enticing players. But shouldn't be a major problems since Colorado has NLL and will have MLL soon. And CSU is like number 2 or something in the country for USLIA D1 or was. Final conclusion: Start a club team for a year or two then go NCAA, advertise intensions of going NCAA and scholarships to get future and current players interested and help you quickly build a base for your program. But in terms of profiting its hard to say since alot of our players are from Minnesota and Minnesota whorships hockey and like wise explosive lacrosse growth but they dont have any NCAA teams. But they do have NLL. So test out the water with a club team with virtual varsity status. Meaning build a big club program and support them but they still pay dues and no scholarship. This way you can easily build a NCAA program from it, get your name out there and test the water. Sorry I couldn't answer all your questions but its my opinion based on my analysis of MidWestern lacrosse growth and my own experiences with my teammates going D2 back east.

You guys in Illinois? Because they have tons of lacrosse players alot of skilled ones. In the Midwest the most skilled seems to be from Minnesota and Illinois and also the two places with the most teams and players in the Midwest. But Minnesota players seem to derive the stick skills from hockey while Illinois guys are more traditional. Well if you guys are in Minnesota or Illinois then thats great since you guys will have a good area to draw talent from, meaning faster growth of program.

[PilotShinjiIkar]

LaxZeppelin you need to stop.
Anyway To start a D1 school you are going to need alot more school support then anything else. Its not like high school whrere you get 50 guys to play and done! Starting a d1 school requires a coach, who then does all the recruiting, etc etc. Yo be honest if your school could have had lax it probably would have, but certain restrictions like title 9 probably stopping that. D1 lacrosse requires alot of $$ from the school...and they may not want to for it out. Good luck

I think he's someone from the school or someone in charge of atheletic at a small midwestern school that probably has a small offering of sports so title IX can easily be balanced. Like alot of small northeast D1/2 schools. Hes probably not a player.

[slidesilk32]

You may want to consider these numbers that I sketched out a year ago.
There are equipment companies willing to offer teams a reduced price for start-up teams.

Equipment for 36 players: $750 / player for sticks (2), gloves, arm pads, shoulder pads, helmet, bag and shoes.

Team Equipment - goals and nets (2 sets) $1,000, balls $300, extra
sticks $2000 and miscellaneous $1,000

Game uniforms - $5,000 for 2 sets, and Practice uniforms - $2,000

Travel, Lodging and Meals $110,000
Salary and Benefits(3) $100,000 (compare to other coaches at your school)

Scholarship costs are dependent on the schools tuition, room and board. The NCAA limit for mens lax is 12.6 scholarships for a funlly funded program. Mens lax, as is womens lax, is an equivalency sport for purposes of schorlaships by the NCAA meaning you can have more than 12.6 players receiving aid. The cap on aid is that the total amount given out cannot exceed 12.6 times the cost of tuition room board and selected expenses. For example, Notre Dame is fully funded so 12.6 times 39,650 = $499,590. It has a large donor base to assist it with athletic department costs and it also has good football revenue (about 42 million per year). Hence the cost of fully funding a lax program is indeed scary.

You should consider 2 scholarships to be added in each of the first 6 years of the program.

Other costs to consider must be determined by the school, such as the recruiting expenses, whcih will be determined by area to cover. (Illinois,
Midwest or National)
Program Insurance
Training support
Strength coach
Student managers (2)
Facility construction and maintenance
Academic support

I trust this will be of some value to you.

[plainslacrosse]

I think he's someone from the school or someone in charge of atheletic at a small midwestern school that probably has a small offering of sports so title IX can easily be balanced. Like alot of small northeast D1/2 schools. Hes probably not a player.

Sorry if I misrepresented myself. I definitely do not have any authority in the athletic department. A group of our school fans just thought it would be progressive move for our school to consider adding lacrosse so it could be a leader in the region, rather than a follower.

Because of Title IX and financial issues, other spring sports like baseball, tennis, or golf would probably have to be dropped, but our facilities don't lend themselves well to those sports (in the springtime) anyway. In baseball, tennis or golf, we are practicallly doomed for failure at the DI level. Theoretically, if we added lacrosse it could share facliities with the football team (both game field and the training field would be indoor). From a finacial standpoint, it would seem that lacrosse would be less of a drain on the athletic department than baseball/tennis, which don't generate much revenue.

[plainslacrosse]

Thanks.

That's exactly the type of information I was looking for!

[PilotShinjiIkar]

Thanks.

That's exactly the type of information I was looking for!

Well its a investment that will take time to make a return on. But it will be great to have NCAA lax spread over here, to show people how great lacrosse is and that theres something else besides football and wrestling and then basketball. But good luck on getting your school interested...

[swordsman]

Plains Lacrosse can you please tell us what school?

[plainslacrosse]

Plains Lacrosse can you please tell us what school?Keep in mind that the when the idea of adding lacrosse came up on our message board, the more it was discussed, the more it was liked. Strategically, we think it makes sense for our university. Fans from an in-state rival think we are nuts.

Here are three clues - I'll return later with the answer.

Football stadium
http://www.fightingsioux.com/info/facilities/images/alerus_interior.jpg

Hockey /basketball arena
http://www.fightingsioux.com/info/facilities/images/rea_interior.jpg

7-time DI national men's hockey champions

[sluhlax]

If this is the "other" UND, which I'm pretty sure it is, it's doable, but you'd need a lot of help to get a DI team started there.

[plainslacrosse]

If this is the "other" UND, which I'm pretty sure it is, it's doable, but you'd need a lot of help to get a DI team started there.

You are correct, it is the U of North Dakota.

The ‘help’ we would need most assuredly need is that the Great Western Lacrosse League accept us as a member. We are already have a rivalry with Denver in men’s hockey and we play in the same conference in women’s hockey with Ohio State. With a major air base near campus, an Air Force game would also receive plenty of attention, and Notre Dame is Notre Dame.

From a recruiting standpoint, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and western Canada are all traditional recruiting grounds. (more than 30% of UND students are from Minnesota, almost 50% are from out-of-state). There is a reciprocity agreement with most western states, so for example a Californian, with a 1/3rd ride, would basically get in-state tuition. UND would likely be one of the most inexpensive locations for a walk-on.

[plainslacrosse]

So, any further response? Can lacrosse thrive at a public middle-class-oriented university well-removed from lacrosse strongholds?

Currently, UND is studying going DI in all sports (only hockey is currently DI) and odds are we will be announcing a move up. Facilities-wise, we are well positioned for DI in revenue sports, as nearly $210 million in new athletic facilties have been constructed since the year 2000. A new $10 million indoor practice field is also being planned. The problem is we would not be at all well-positioned for the DI level in our existing spring-time sports of baseball, golf, or tennis. For lacrosse great facilities would already be available and we have an avid hockey fan base (up to 250,000 in attendance annually) who would likely adapt well to lacrosse.

Here’s where we’ve been discussing lacrosse

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5193&view=findpost&p=128975

Skip down to post #25 on the thread, and add any comments if you’d like.

Thanks for your views. I plan, as a minimum, to e-mail our athletic director (who was an assistant AD at Army) about adding lacrosse at UND.

[jmplax31]

….also consider the amount of fans you could draw. You might have to create your fan base from scratch, but I think hockey fans could be converted easily. I would also recommend getting some kids together and see it you can start out with a club team. The lacrosse college club scene is a big deal and a great stepping-stone. Other those suggestions just write or talk to your Athletic Director in person and put the idea in his head.

Oh, and those facilities look sweet, but that’s coming from a student at a D3 college. Our basketball court is smaller then my high school’s gym. Ah, good times.

[laxpro]

You may want to consider these numbers that I sketched out a year ago.
There are equipment companies willing to offer teams a reduced price for start-up teams.

Equipment for 36 players: $750 / player for sticks (2), gloves, arm pads, shoulder pads, helmet, bag and shoes.

Team Equipment - goals and nets (2 sets) $1,000, balls $300, extra
sticks $2000 and miscellaneous $1,000

Game uniforms - $5,000 for 2 sets, and Practice uniforms - $2,000

Travel, Lodging and Meals $110,000
Salary and Benefits(3) $100,000 (compare to other coaches at your school)

Scholarship costs are dependent on the schools tuition, room and board. The NCAA limit for mens lax is 12.6 scholarships for a funlly funded program. Mens lax, as is womens lax, is an equivalency sport for purposes of schorlaships by the NCAA meaning you can have more than 12.6 players receiving aid. The cap on aid is that the total amount given out cannot exceed 12.6 times the cost of tuition room board and selected expenses. For example, Notre Dame is fully funded so 12.6 times 39,650 = $499,590. It has a large donor base to assist it with athletic department costs and it also has good football revenue (about 42 million per year). Hence the cost of fully funding a lax program is indeed scary.

You should consider 2 scholarships to be added in each of the first 6 years of the program.

Other costs to consider must be determined by the school, such as the recruiting expenses, whcih will be determined by area to cover. (Illinois,
Midwest or National)
Program Insurance
Training support
Strength coach
Student managers (2)
Facility construction and maintenance
Academic support

I trust this will be of some value to you.

that sums it up

[bloodilax977]

Along with what jmp said, I would first try to attract your hockey fans. They will be the most easily converted. Then again, football fans shouldn't be that hard either. Maybe you could get an ad for the lacrosse season up on that huge screen in the hockey arena.

[wickedlaxer4]

You could call up Jack Mcgetrick the head coach of BELLARMINE and he'll tell you what it takes to start a D1 Lax Program... He seems to be pretty damn good at it

[fenderstrat3578]

u probably have to start through d3 before u can eventually go to d1 other than that, i have no clue


Actually thats not true. The classification of division isn't dependent on talent, it is dependent on how many sports that the school has during that season. I THINK this is accurate, however I may be mistaken

[smooth87]

You could call up Jack Mcgetrick the head coach of BELLARMINE and he'll tell you what it takes to start a D1 Lax Program... He seems to be pretty damn good at it

He also went through DIII first. He didn't it out of a club or from scratch.

[wickedlaxer4]

He also went through DIII first. He didn't it out of a club or from scratch.


wow ur a dumb***.... thats because you hafta play one year of D1 D2 and D3 to have your second year be all D1... so yea he did do it from scratch with no upperclassmen

[smooth87]

Whoa calm down- I know you need at least a year in another divison before moving up to DI. Plainslacrosse asked "What does it take to start a DI men’s (and women’s) lacrosse team from scratch at a school that has little to no history with lacrosse?" And I was telling him, just like BELLARMINE, you need to go through at least DIII first.

[PhilWings24]

What does it take to start a DI men’s (and women’s) lacrosse team from scratch at a school that has little to no history with lacrosse? A few of us were just kind shooting the breeze about what would be a good spring sport that has the potential to produce revenue. We agreed that Lacrosse could potentially make a lot of sense: get established now before the game really takes off across the Midwest and South. Our school has an established hockey fan base that would take easily to lacrosse.

Is there any school that is a model for starting a DI lacrosse team?
What would be the startup costs?
Any idea of what annual costs (other than scholarships) would be?
Would there be many prospective coaches out there willing to take on such a task?
How difficult would it be to be accepted into a lacrosse conference – would the Great Western Lacrosse Conference take all-comers?
Would the lacrosse world welcome a non-traditional geographical location?
How difficult is it to attract walk-on players if the local lacrosse talent pool is small?

Thanks - More curious than anything.

well its my understanding that its completely based on the amount of scholarship money you spend on it that determines what division you are. otherwise middlebury would be D1 in a second. so yeah, i'm pretty sure all you need is a school-sponsored team that spends enough money on scholarships

and also, in regards to it being a non-traditional location, the average lacrosse fan would not only welcom it but embrace it and give it nice things. like sweaters.

it symbolizes the growth of the sport, which is the best kind of growth.

[Guy Smiley]

Whoa calm down- I know you need at least a year in another divison before moving up to DI. Plainslacrosse asked "What does it take to start a DI men’s (and women’s) lacrosse team from scratch at a school that has little to no history with lacrosse?" And I was telling him, just like BELLARMINE, you need to go through at least DIII first.

Wrong! It depends what division the school is in. St. John's was a first year lacrosse team last year - D1 school therefore D1 lacrosse.

Bellarmine is a D2 school. However, a school can play up in one sport (other than basketball or football). Examples - Hopkins and Hobart in lacrosse, St. Lawrence, North Dakota and Union in hockey. Bellarmine is playing up in D1, but in the first year of playing up the team is not eligible for post-season play. This year Bellarmine is full-fledged D1

[PompLax14]

I'd just like to say those are some beautiful facilities. Is the football stadium a dome or just open air? Is that where you would be playing your games?

[laxjames25]

Bellarmine is awsome and i think that they have what it takes to be great


yea, bellarmine(louisville, ky) went straight to d1 their first year, they just couldnt compete in the tourney, but this year(2nd year) their playin power houses such as notre dame, uva, and duke, so we'll see

[AHA lax5]

Well I would like to say good luck to you on your journey to get D1 Lacrosse and i would be sooo happy if you get it also, because that means i could take a trip and go over watch some games....because they only lacrosse that you see here in Minnesota is the Swarm and a bunch of small D3 schools thats about it....

[gordie]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[vcu_lax20]

aside from the fact its expensive, i think theres a regulation with NCAA, from where i heard at least. if you add a men's team of any sport, you have to add a women's team (not same sport). you have to keep the balance of men and women's sports at the school. as far as D1-3 teams go. it doesn't matter upon whether you're first starting out. if you're team is a D1 team for say, basketball or football already, you're lacrosse team will be a D1 team. its the size of your school in population, not quality of team sports. those are some things to consider.

[plainslacrosse]

I'd just like to say those are some beautiful facilities. Is the football stadium a dome or just open air? Is that where you would be playing your games?

The football stadium - called the Alerus Center- is totally enclosed. It also has video screens above each end zone for live action and replays.

The indoor stadium is owned by the city - not UND. UND athletics also has an outdoor football stadium where the football and track teams practice. There is also plans for an indoor practice facility (300 m track, 60 yard field) for the football / track teams.

Keep in mind that this "starting lacrosse at UND talk" is mostly just message board chatter, but I do know that the administration at the very least seems to be curious about the lacrosse option.

[plainslacrosse]

Does any DI school break-even financially from lacrosse, based on attendance?

[groundball88]

pretty sure university of denver does, seeing as they just constructed a multi-million dollar stadium specifically for lacrosse

[zak]

Does any DI school break-even financially from lacrosse, based on attendance?
I honestly have no idea, but I think that very few school profit from football, so I dont think its likely.

[wilsontopowell]

I honestly have no idea, but I think that very few school profit from football, so I dont think its likely.

are you joking? most schools money come from football at least big schools

[PompLax14]

I imagine powerhouses like SU, JHU, UVA, UMD, etc... All profit from their lacrosse programs.

[zak]

are you joking? most schools money come from football at least big schools
Not at all, most big name schools get money from alumni, tuition etc. Ill try to find some more info.

[plainslacrosse]

Been a while since I posted, but thought the forum might be interested in a lacrosse poll results at Siouxsports.com:

If UND started a DI Men's Lacrosse team, I would:
Buy season tickets, no question [ 9 ] [10.11%]
Be supportive and go to a few games [ 51 ] [57.30%]
Go to one match, out of curiosity [ 6 ] [6.74%]
Follow the progress, but not attend [ 8 ] [8.99%]
Think it is a stupid idea [ 14 ] [15.73%]
Be a vocal opponent [ 1 ] [1.12%]

Total Votes: 89

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5585&pid=143391&st=40&#entry143391

If it could be shown that UND could average home crowds of 1500 to 2000, it is my understanding that starting a DI men's lacrosse would merit consideration. Since UND averages nearly 11,000 for hockey games (and has a season ticket hockey base of 6500), the above poll would indicate that around 1000 season tickets could be sold. If only half of the other hockey fans attended one game annually, a 2000 average could be reached. Granted, the respondents to this poll are probably skewed somewhat, but almost 2/3rds seem to embrace the idea of lacrosse.

With the relatively low ceiling level, the crowd noise in the Alerus Center is deafening for football. IMO, the crowd involvement and energy level of a UND home lacrosse match would be unique to the college game. With a UND move of all sports to DI imminent, a men's lacrosse team just seems to make more and more sense as a spring sports option (rather than baseball).

[strat1]

Hockey and football fans could easily become lacrosse fans... you guys over at UND shouldnt have problems.

also... i dont think the cost will be that much of a problem. i know most private school's endowments are in the upper hundreds of millions of dollars (ivys in the billions) ... you guys shouldnt be far from that.