Really hard question (moral stuff)

[atacklax]

Well, when I was away with a church youth group, one of the counselors asked us this question:
You are on a tour of these awesome underwater caves with about a dozen other people. They are filled with water when the tide is high, and dry when it is low. Your guide notices that high tide is approaching fast and leads everyone to the exit, which is a small tunnel about 3 feet high. Two people go through but then a very fat guy trys. He gets stuck and cannot escape. After a few minutes of struggling and shoving, you begin to feel the water lapping at your feet (it's coming from a small opening at the other end of the cavern, so there is no other way out). Your guide announces that you have only a few minutes remaining until the tide is all the way in. Out of the corner of your eye, you notice a box of dynamite left there by miners. So, the question is, do you blow the fat man up and save the lives of the others, or let everyone die. It may seem obvious, but here's the tricky part: You must decide which is better, to kill one man intentionally, or to let many die of no man's fault. Which would you do? Would you reach for the dynamite, or would you wait for the water to rise?
P.S. Don't try to find loopholes, that's not the point. It's an question of morality, not a riddle.

[ljlax]

Wait...he's like STUCK?
Or could he just step out of the way and let everyone else get out. Blow up the hole bigger and get out too?
wait.. it's not a riddle.. no loopholes..

I would let someone elsee kill him intentionally.

is he seriously stuck or can he squeeze back into the cavern?

[atacklax]

Wait...he's like STUCK?
Or could he just step out of the way and let everyone else get out. Blow up the hole bigger and get out too?
wait.. it's not a riddle.. no loopholes..

I would let someone elsee kill him intentionally.

is he seriously stuck or can he squeeze back into the cavern?
He's stuck in there good. He's not getting out any time soon.

[ljlax]

wtf...how does someone do that..
If that happened I would think that he's stupiddd....

So what did you decide?

[zak]

I think theres some major loopholes, dynamite would kill everyone, fat guy shouldnt be in the cave in the first place, etc etc etc. I also think thats unfair question, its not just killing one man, its sacrificing one man to save many. The way I see it, the fat guy is going to drown either way, why should everyone else?

[LaxGoalie28]

I dont think the fat guy would want everyone to die becasue of him. I would blow him up.

[ljlax]

I still say...
blow up the hole so it's bigger...beforee the fat man get's stuck.

gosh. I would probably kill him..I'm a horrible person

[atacklax]

Oh, yeah, sorry. I'd kill the fat guy. but its a tough choice. It's not that your really killing him as opposed to letting him live, its that you're murdering him as opposed to letting everyone die from the water. And stop finding problems with it.

[skip0l]

if he got in there you can pull him out to begin with, but forget that i'd blow him up, one of those people could be the doctor that cures cancer, or HIV

[twin58]

One word: cannibalism. Chow down on the poor stuck fellow until enough flesh has been removed that he can be pushed or pulled through the opening. As a bonus, no one starves.

Of course, the cannibalized individual may die, but you can't have everything. Guns or butter, as they say.

[Jordan303]

....if he's stuck how did he get in, in the first place?

and under those circumstances i dont think i would function properly and just go into shock and become completly useless

[Despise Purity]

Whether this is a loophole or not, when your in the situation most people would probably to what ever it takes to live. If it means killing that one fat guy to live then Id guess most would try and do that. But if you could go with killing the fat dude without anyone else getting hurt, or keeping other casualties to a minimum then I am all for sacrificing him.

This kind of reminds me of Saw, how far are you willing to go to live. Like the chick with the reverse bear trap on her face.


Edit- This isnt to say id be the one that would kill him, I cant answer that, Id probably respond like said above and end up in the corner scared and screaming and do nothing.

[Tex71]

i would kill the fat dude because he is gonna die either way so he might as well save the other people by sacrificing himself

[Canadian Lax]

if i were the fat man i woud want the other ppl to blow me up, i would want to give others the chance to live.

I chose blow him up

[laxattack8888]

Unfortunately there is an obvious answer here, and that is just to blow up the fat man. Think about it like this- rather than have a dozen people die, only one does. Since 11 live instead of the entire group dying, it is the only real thing you can do in that kind of situation. Plus, any overweight male should not go on a possibly strenuous tour with small areas like that.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

i'd drown... it isnt my place to give up another man's life to save my own. i consider that murder and extremely selfish.

[ColtsLax]

the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (thanks Spock)

But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.(thanks Monsignor)

Needless to say, the fat man gets it.

[Formerlaxdemon]

Well if I didn't use my Jedi powers to move the fat man out of the way, I would convince someone else to kill the fat man to save me.

[Eclipse]

Well if I didn't use my Jedi powers to move the fat man out of the way, I would convince someone else to kill the fat man to save me.

To me blowing him up, and telling someone else to blow him up would all be the same.

Regardless...i would pop one stick of Dyno in his arse and run.

[Formerlaxdemon]

To me blowing him up, and telling someone else to blow him up would all be the same.

Regardless...i would pop one stick of Dyno in his arse and run.


Why let oneself drown? This essentially is a kill or be killed scenario that attempts to elicit a moral dilemma in the reader. It is not realistic though. If you are trying to decide whether people possess selfless characters, good luck and fat chance. A lifetime of cynicism has clouded such thoughts from my mind. Altruism is fine and well, but I doubt many of us would let ourselves die slowly in the cave when the solution is at hand... literally.

As Stan Lee would say, "'Nuff Said."

[sweet_ceX]

I would rather die. I have no justification to kill another man to save my own life. It doesn't matter if everyone else wants to live, thats just plain old selfish, and really mean to fat people.

[OutBurst]

I really can't decide on this one. I guess I'd have to be in that situation to make the decision.

[bayhawkslax216]

in my ethics class last semester, we often pondered this scenario, which reminds me of the one you proposed:

You are standing at a train track switch. A train is fast approaching. The path that the switch is now on leads to five people stuck on the track. If you do not touch the switch, all five will die. If you flip the switch, the train will divert, but will hit one person who is stuck on that track. Do you flip the switch and intentionally kill the one person, or do you leave the switch alone and passively allow the five people to die? Does your answer change if the one person is your brother? Or if one of the five people is your sister?

[laxgirl45]

Hm. I would say everyone goes down as a "team". Even though I would be rather ticked about dying because some one was over weight... I would rathr hae that happen tan have to live with the thought that I blew (murdered) someone to save my self. That's a tough question.

[the next 'one']

could you blow another hole in the wall? wouldnt it end up bigger than the fat man's hole. his blubber should last him about a week, you could get some help and come back for him once you reach civilization. one point for me... boo yah!!!

[marflax33]

wtf...how does someone do that..

lol. That brought a smile to my face. There is no other option, kill him, save anyone else. If hes that large hes gonna die of heart diesease in a few years anyways.

[Frndlefire]

You must decide which is better, to kill one man intentionally, or to let many die of no man's fault.
I honestly didn't read the thread, so sorry if I'm repeating someone, but this part is what I have issue with (and also what makes this such a simple answer). While you would be killing one man intentionally you wouldn't be letting everyone die of no man's fault. Why? Well if you have the power (which you do) do save everyone you would be ignoring that power making you at fault for the deaths of everyone. Because you could save everyone but the fat man, you have the power to, but choose not to, you are not just a passive observer watching them die...you are making the choice that they should die because you don't want to sully your hands. Personally, I would choose to kill the fat man. Yes, it is murder and I would accept those moral consequences (which I don't neccesarily believe I would be absolved of), but I think it is better for me to sin and save those other people than not (but not really) and all die.

Hm...not sure if I'm explaining this as I mean it...but do you guys understand where I;m going?

[truste1]

one of those people could be the doctor that cures cancer, or HIV

So could the fat man.

But I definitely look at it as sacrificing one to save many, because everyone (including the fat man) will die anyway.

[BTlaxripper]

Honestly, everybody knows what they would do in this situation.

If you do not blow up the man who is stuck, you, the fat man, and everybody else will die.

10 certain deaths when it could be lower,
or 1 sacrificial death to save 9.

You know the answer.

In fact, I believe that human instinct would take over and everybody would be itching to grab that stick of dynamite. . .

Hey!

Or how about you take the dynamite, and blow a hole in the side of the cave creating another exit, so nobody has to die?

[fitzy_nb_11]

BTlaxripper,you're right but what if the fat guy goes through it another 10 feet then you're right screwed cuz then he won't be able to move.Oh, and i picked blow him up

[lax4life6]

take the dynamite and blow a hole somewhere else in the cave? i dunno how the fat guy got in there in the first place but blow him up if you have to

[GBaschski]

Absolutely blow the fat man up. You can kill one person and live, or you can watch while several others (including yourself) die. I know the choice I would make, and I'm sure the natural human instinct would be to save yourself, anyway.

What if you were stuck with your five closest friends, the love of your life, etc. You wouldn't want them to die, especially when you have the power to save them.

[WickedDpole21]

blow a whole in the wall on another side.

coming from a fashionably plump man himself :bye:

[tomahawks11]

if the fat guy was pissing me off then id kill him

[exile lacrosse]

ok over looking the obvious loopholes, id blow him up. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one (former trekkie, rep it). He dies quickly, instead of everyone dieing slowly. Everyone dieing slowly is just pointless.

[soclax15]

Blow up the fatass. That's what he gets for being fat anyway. Attractive people need to live.

[mhscats09]

I would blow the guy up because if i dint then i would die along with the others but if I blow him up I stay alive and so do the rest of the group

[James]

i'd drown... it isnt my place to give up another man's life to save my own. i consider that murder and extremely selfish.
I totallly agreee, i could never live the rest of my life knowing that someguy died so i could be here unless he said to do it. BUt i would plug the whole in the back with the shirts and the dynamite to delay things, that is if the hole i samll enough

[BTlaxripper]

Blow up the fatass. That's what he gets for being fat anyway. Attractive people need to live.

You sir, just made me lol
:love:

[exile lacrosse]

I totallly agreee, i could never live the rest of my life knowing that someguy died so i could be here unless he said to do it. BUt i would plug the whole in the back with the shirts and the dynamite to delay things, that is if the hole i samll enough

but not only do you die, an unmentioned number of people also trapped in the cave with you die. so say intotal theres 25 people stuck in the cave. one dies, but 24 live. those 24 all have families and loved ones which would be distraught over their deaths. this isnt to say that the fat man doesnt have any family who would be upset, but this limits the heartbreak to one family instead of 25.

[ekajsk8er]

I'd blow him up to save the other 11 over him alone. That situation is stretching it a bit though. Ok, it's stretching it a lot.

[the next 'one']

lol thats what i said

[lancer]

He's stuck in there good. He's not getting out any time soon.

how did the fat guy get in there any ways

[atacklax]

how did the fat guy get in there any ways
Let's pretend there was a larger hole at the other end but its now underwater.

If there's one thing I learned from this thread, its that fat people should die to save skinny people. Not a very good lesson.

[BioPro29]

Man, someone already quoted Spock.

Blow the hell outta him. At least that way you can tell his family that he blew himself up to save everyone. That way he'll die a hero instead of a fat@ss. Plus, after something like that, id devote my life to getting rid of obesity in his honor (and i don't like fat girls).

[AttackMan17]

Blow up the fatass. That's what he gets for being fat anyway. Attractive people need to live.

Your right! I should live!!

No really, id blow him up to save the other 10 people, it would be better, because of 12 people dieing, only one has to. Bu tim not really for killing people. But in this case i would.

[LowRida]

Eh, kill the big guy, I would rather save the other eleven than kill twelve. If you do not blow him up (wow this sounds ridiculous) you kill twelve by not doing anything. Who knows, maybe the fat will act as a shield and the dyamite not kill him, creating a new era of weight loss.

[mikecoyle]

Well, when I was away with a church youth group, one of the counselors asked us this question:
You are on a tour of these awesome underwater caves with about a dozen other people. They are filled with water when the tide is high, and dry when it is low. Your guide notices that high tide is approaching fast and leads everyone to the exit, which is a small tunnel about 3 feet high. Two people go through but then a very fat guy trys. He gets stuck and cannot escape. After a few minutes of struggling and shoving, you begin to feel the water lapping at your feet (it's coming from a small opening at the other end of the cavern, so there is no other way out). Your guide announces that you have only a few minutes remaining until the tide is all the way in. Out of the corner of your eye, you notice a box of dynamite left there by miners. So, the question is, do you blow the fat man up and save the lives of the others, or let everyone die. It may seem obvious, but here's the tricky part: You must decide which is better, to kill one man intentionally, or to let many die of no man's fault. Which would you do? Would you reach for the dynamite, or would you wait for the water to rise?
P.S. Don't try to find loopholes, that's not the point. It's an question of morality, not a riddle.
Dislocate his shoulders and pop him thru,and if that doesnt work dislocate his hips.

[Superman]

sorry boys but im a big fan of darwinism. id have no choice but to kill him.

[goalieskcickay]

^^^ :clap: :grin: :laugh: :chuckle:

A great post, I must say.
I would probably kill hem. I'd like to say I would die the honerable death, but when faced with the choice, I would kill him.

[slinkyspine]

Well I would blow him up but in the most immhumane way too! I know I know but I always wanted to kill a fat guy and not go to jail

[MinnetonkaLax]

just the thought of drowning slowly like that would make me kill the fat man like right away, problem solved

[NF Lax23----<o)]

yea but also consider that you BLEW HIM UP! I think it's easier to cope with someone drowning e tad bit easier than someone blowing them up.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

I would die along with all the other guys.

[Jesse]

If I didnt blow him up, Im sure someone else would.


But I would have to ask him how he wanted to die.

[ekajsk8er]

If I didnt blow him up, Im sure someone else would.


But I would have to ask him how he wanted to die.

The only problem with that is if you, say shot him, there would still be a fat man stuck in a cave, except now he's dead and is starting to smell a little.

[BioPro29]

I'd tell him.

Listen, you can die two ways. You can drown, along with everyone else, or i can blow you up, and everyone else will be saved.

Regardless of his answer, i'd blow him up. I'd be killing everyone else by not blowing him up.

[jaw22]

exactly why I wouldn't go to a christian youth group

They only ask you that so they can pound you with what the bible says is right once you answer.

(thats just my opinion, i'm not trying to get you to convert)

And when you say "or let all the people die of nobodies fault," you have significantly flawed reasoning there. It's not only the fat man's fault, its also the leader's fault, for not knowing the tide situation, and for letting the fat guy go first.

[SDPirate]

i'd blow him up. the needs of the many out weigh the needs of one.
also the part saying is it better to kill one intentionally or alot with no blame.
if you had the oppurtunity to sace the peoples lives but did not act upon it. isnt that just as bad as killing them?

[middleton23]

ask the fat man what he thinks you should do

[franks2089]

You must decide which is better, to kill one man intentionally, or to let many die of no man's fault.
Its the fat guys fault for eating at McDonalds too much. Blow him up!

[zak]

I thought some more about it. Id blow him up for me, not for the other people. The needs of me out weigh the needs of him. Im not going to let him kill me.

[BioPro29]

I thought some more about it. Id blow him up for me, not for the other people. The needs of me out weigh the needs of him. Im not going to let him kill me.

I love your posts.

[Jesse]

The only problem with that is if you, say shot him, there would still be a fat man stuck in a cave, except now he's dead and is starting to smell a little.
I meant, that I would ask him if he wanted to be blown up or to drown everyone.
But, If I didnt blow him up, someone else in the mine would.

[goalieskcickay]

Blow up the fatass. That's what he gets for being fat anyway. Attractive people need to live.

Wow. You fascist.

ask the fat man what he thinks you should do

I like this answer the best out of them all. It puts the responsibility on the guy who is, in fact, the one responsible for getting stuck. :chuckle:

[EphLax26]

I would blow the fat guy up. I would rather live, and kill somone then die and know that i could of lived

[Hackstall]

Obviously you are blowing the guy up.

By saving the 11 other people you aren't just saving 11 people. You are also saving their families, kids, spouses from being deprived of them. If you look at it this way, you are stopping the negative impact on hundreds of people rather than the family and friends of one guy.

Death is not about the dead. Death is a concept for people who are still alive. They are the ones that have to bear the cost of someone dying.

That aside, I realize that we aren't to look for loopholes but technically it is the fat guys fault for eating cheeseburgers and not exercising. Plus, he would probably die soon anyway from heart disease.

[LymanLax28]

I'd kill him. Not saving peoples' lives when you had a chance to is just as bad as killing them. Also, what's worse, one person dying or five people dying?

[atacklax]

Just to clarify, the fat guy is gonna die anyway.