Rules Question

[TheKOB]

for all you coaches and refs out there...

I was helping out at a high school game here in SC, and on of our players ran around the crease and put the ball in the net, semi air gait stye. While he was up in the air he got hit legally into the crease. I don't know if he had crossed the plane of the crease or not before the ball went in. Anyways, I was discussing the ensuing call by the ref (ball was awarded to the other team for a crease violation) and he said that because the hit was legal, it was a crease violation. If it was illegal, we would've had the ball and a penalty.

My question is..are you allowed to push an opponent into the crease legally and get the other team a penalty in the process? If so, I must've never learned this move, and I'll definitely teach it to the D. Anyways, when he explained it to me, it just didn't sound right....kinda like grabbing your opponents stick and hitting yourself in the head, and the ref giving the other team a penalty for slashing. Maybe not as bad, but in a close scoring game, it was a hard one to swallow. The ref had a rough game, since he was the only one showing up, and had my incessant rhetorical questions to deal with on top of the opposing coach's who's subscription of Lacrosse Magazine must've ended in the early 50's. He also was out of position on a fast break and couldn't see a goal by the other team and the ensuing (alledged) crease violation....but I digress.

So my original question is still...can an opposing defender earn the other team a penalty by pushing a player of said team into the crease legally?

[pissedofflaxdud]

OK, I am writing this without referencing my copy of the NCAA rules, so if I am wrong I apologize...but my interpretation would be the following:

Providing that the push was of equal pressure, not excessive pressure and not to the back you could legally push an opponent into the crease.

Just as a side note I teach the h.s. d that I coach to place a foot in the crease or on the line to use the crease as an additional defender and to deter the “dive” or the cross crease feed. It takes away the inside roll and allows for the d to drop step into position for the outside look. We also run a quick slide and recover from adjacent d to deter the dump off to the crease or the easy look up top.

Hope this helps.

[smitt5168]

i don't think you can push someone in to the crease.

in fact i'm sure you can't . but what do i know? anyways

[pissedofflaxdud]

I am going to stick with my original post. I just checked the NCAA rules, and while there is not specifically an example of what you are asking there is something somewhat similar on page 63 in AR 3. Combine that with the rule for a push and I would say you could do so.

[smitt5168]

but while he's in the air?

[pissedofflaxdud]

I did more research.

Page 47 of the NCAA Rule book, A.R. 98. If it were an illegal check, the caveat being illegal check, would make my prior statements wrong. I would assume a push to the back, leaving your feet to body check the player, unneccessary roughness, spearing and the like would constitute the illegal part of it. However a legal check or push would, again in my opinion be legal. I would also point to the note on page 56 that states that..."If a player who is about to be body checked turns his back, ducks or jumps in such a manner to make what started to be a legal check appear to be illegal, no foul is commited by the player applying the body check. The initial contact, not any secondary contact, shall determine whether a body check is legal. No official should make the call "from the rear" or "below the waist," unless he sees the intial contact."

Again, I stick to my original statement.

[Snake~eyes]

Pushing an opponent into the crease is perfectly legal, it is also legal ot push a player off sides. As long as the hit is legal, then its just as if the player stepped in the crease(or offsides).

[Snake~eyes]

Follow up post

4.20 Situation C: A1 dives or jumps into the crease and while in the air gets legally pushed or checked (a) ball goes into the goal or (b) ball does not go into the goal. RULING: In (a), no goal, award ball to the defense. In (b), play on or whistle.

[TheKOB]

Alright, I guess that makes sense. I think the problem was the ref thought he was in the crease (while in the air) before the ball went in to the goal. A difficult call to make, and (if I remember correctly) one of the reasons given for why they outlawed the dive.

A followup question, if the goal counts, as in a), will there be a faceoff, or will the opposition be awarded the ball because of the penalty?

[Snake~eyes]

I mistyped the situation! I accidentally took 4.20 C situation and typed 4.20 D RULING with it!! I have fixed it please reread my post.