Another flag down quiz

[LaxRef]

A1 has the ball in the attack area and is slashed by B1, flag down. A1 maintains possession and passes to A2.

(1) A2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

(2) B2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

In both cases, the ball does not touch the ground until after it enters the goal. A1, A2, and A3 stay in the attack area for the entire play. Rulings? (Give for both 2006 NCAA and NFHS)

[TXD2LAX]

A1 has the ball in the attack area and is slashed by B1, flag down. A1 maintains possession and passes to A2.

(1) A2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

(2) B2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

In both cases, the ball does not touch the ground until after it enters the goal. A1, A2, and A3 stay in the attack area for the entire play. Rulings? (Give for both 2006 NCAA and NFHS)


I am not a Ref, and have no idea about the NFHS stuff, but I would say that both would be a goal by NCAA standards, as Team A never lost possession and the ball never left the attack area.

[LaxRef]

Let's just say that this quiz is harder than it appears.

[Kwick_STX]

For NFHS rules, it'd depend on what you consider the Defense gaining posession.

I don't know about NCAA rules, but I would signal goal on both counts.

I'm gonna guess on NCAA that the first one is good but the second one isn't...?

[CoachRob]

A1 has the ball in the attack area and is slashed by B1, flag down. A1 maintains possession and passes to A2.

(1) A2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

(2) B2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

I would say for NFHS both count as a goal. According to the rules of the slow whistle, team A has to have an incomplete pass (one that comes into contact with the ground), or the opponent gains possession (among the 11 items listed in 7-8.2). In both (1) and (2), the pass was actually completed, with no loss of possession nor contact with the ground. Also, the ball did not leave the box. So, again, I believe both are goals and would have a hard time selling "no goal coach" to coach A.

But maybe I'm missing something.

[LaxRef]

Looking at the exact wording of the rules, I may have a hard time selling this. However, here's the angle: would you kill the slow whistle if the ball touched someone or something not in the attack area?

[Kwick_STX]

Looking at the exact wording of the rules, I may have a hard time selling this. However, here's the angle: would you kill the slow whistle if the ball touched someone or something not in the attack area?
So you're saying the pass was deflected out of the attack area?

Edit: I can't see how either of them can be no goals. The wording is "if the defender gains posession..." and it hitting his stick is by no means posession. And the way you described it I'm assuming there's no other rules that might interfere with it (nfhs rules of course). So it's gotta be goal for both on nfhs...right?

[LaxRef]

If the ball touches something not in the attack area, would you consider the ball to be out of the attack area? Is an airborne player over the attack area considered to be in the attack area?

[laxfan25]

If the ball touches something not in the attack area, would you consider the ball to be out of the attack area? Is an airborne player over the attack area considered to be in the attack area?
For purposes of determining whether a team has moved the ball into the attack area in 10 seconds, a player in mid-air doesn't kill the 10 second count. Once it's in the box, I would never make the call that the player jumping in the air and touching the ball is "out of the box" - using the "area he left from" thesis. I don't think the airborne player stipulations were meant to cover the examples you cited, IMHO.

[LaxRef]

For purposes of determining whether a team has moved the ball into the attack area in 10 seconds, a player in mid-air doesn't kill the 10 second count. Once it's in the box, I would never make the call that the player jumping in the air and touching the ball is "out of the box" - using the "area he left from" thesis. I don't think the airborne player stipulations were meant to cover the examples you cited, IMHO.

I agree, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have rules that say what they mean.

Anyway, as I said above, upon closer inspection I don't think you can sell this argument because the phrase "leaves the attack area" is used, and no where does it say specifically that touching something not in the attack area is the same as leaving the attack area. Oh, well; I thought I had a tricky one, but they can't all work.

[bigfootprep53]

wouldnt the 1st one be a goal and the second not be a goal since the other team touched the ball

[Lax Fan26]

A1 has the ball in the attack area and is slashed by B1, flag down. A1 maintains possession and passes to A2.

(1) A2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

(2) B2 jumps and deflects the ball while in the air; the ball is caught by A3, who shoots the ball into the goal.

In both cases, the ball does not touch the ground until after it enters the goal. A1, A2, and A3 stay in the attack area for the entire play. Rulings? (Give for both 2006 NCAA and NFHS)

1) Always a goal in both Fed & NCAA. (Presuming that neither A2 or 3 dive into the crease nor commit any other foul)

2) Does it matter if B2 is the GK? In Fed, if B2 = GK then SW is killed; else goal. Always a goal in NCAA.

[LaxRef]

2) Does it matter if B2 is the GK? In Fed, if B2 = GK then SW is killed; else goal.

This is a very good (but abstruse) point: under NFHS rules, if the GK touches the ball during a slow whistle and then the ball is touched by anyone other than that GK, the slow whistle is over. High marks for LF26.

Man, I just don't know if I'd call this right in a game. Of course, if I did call it right, everyone would probably think I was screwing it up anyway, since about 12 people know this rule, so maybe it's all just as well.

[CoachRob]

This is a very good (but abstruse) point: under NFHS rules, if the GK touches the ball during a slow whistle and then the ball is touched by anyone other than that GK, the slow whistle is over.

Where is this in the rulebook? I don't remember seeing this at all. :ahhno:

[LaxRef]

Where is this in the rulebook? I don't remember seeing this at all. :ahhno:


Whoops! I got a little carried away there. If the goalie touches a shot and then anyone else touches it, the slow whistle is over. See NFHS 7-8 Art. 3. That's why it seemed so odd!

[CoachRob]

If a shot hits a GK and then touches any other player, on either team, the slow whistle is over. I thought that was what you were referring to. Whew!! You had me worried.