A Draft Will Happen soon!!!!

[navylaxfan15]

If you actually believed the title of this thread when you read it, you need to do your research. The "All Volunteer" Military has more than enough members to topple many more terrorist organizations. I wanted to know who of the lax community actually thinks a draft will happen and that if it actually did, would you go? If it came to a draft, it must be World War III and if I was drafted, I'd be the first one at boot camp.

[livin4lax09]

I would move to another country. I'm not going to waste my life fighting in a war I don't agree with.

[Lax101]

You're very patriotic aren't you...first a "Do you support the troops" thread, and now a "We're not going to have a draft" thread.

[bkball00]

i dont think a draft will happen and if it did i would become a quaker

[exile lacrosse]

I would move to another country. I'm not going to waste my life fighting in a war I don't agree with.

same thing. I think id go to australia. I've always wanted to go there.

[Coach_Goldberg]

Actually, the best modern day way to dodge a draft is to say that you are gay. No gays in the military. So everybody wins! Except defense contractors of course...

[LaxCrazy17]

Wait, do women get drafted like men do??? I'm not cut out for the army. Plain and simple.

[OldGoalie]

You're very patriotic aren't you...first a "Do you support the troops" thread, and now a "We're not going to have a draft" thread.

I don't see the inconsistency. He's not saying that he wouldn't go if drafted, just that there isn't likely to be a draft.

[Coach_Goldberg]

If you actually believed the title of this thread when you read it, you need to do your research. The "All Volunteer" Military has more than enough members to topple many more terrorist organizations. I wanted to know who of the lax community actually thinks a draft will happen and that if it actually did, would you go? If it came to a draft, it must be World War III and if I was drafted, I'd be the first one at boot camp.

Really? You claim that without a draft we can successfully occupy Afghanistan and Iraq, and then also invade and conquer North Korea, Iran, and whomever else has delicious economic oppurtunities for us? We may be able to invade and conquer, but I highly doubt that we would be able to keep occupation in our new Empire without a significant increase in ground forces. But, seeing as they are cutting alot of financial aid in the 2007 budget and increasing recruiting dollars for the military, the MGI Bill may seem like the best option for most of the poor. So, we may see an emptying of the ghettos and an influx of poor people in uniform to occupy our empire. I may just be wrong in a few years when that takes effect. Right now, though, our forces are spread much too thin to occupy another country larger than Luxembourg.

On another note, the best modern day way to dodge a draft is to just say that you are gay. They don't allow gays in the military, so until they change that you're gravy.

[blckout20]

If I was drafted I would go. If you are being drafted your country needs you and I think its our responsibility to help defend our country when it is needed. It is cowardly to flee the country over a draft and I'm surprised to see that so many people are comfortable admitting they would do that.

[Coach_Goldberg]

The question is what are we fighting for? Empire? Security? War Profiteering? Liberation of oppressed peoples? Decisions for war now and have always been economic. But who are the benefactors of this? Is it the majority of the people? The bottom 99%? You say that you would fight because it is your country's call to arms. I say that it is not your country's call to arms, but your master's muster. If we were invaded, I would fight. If we were attacked again, I would fight, but we are not now fighting the enemy that attacked us. We are fighting an enemy that we create. An enemy that is created to perpetually keep us in war for the benefit of the few.

[slinkyspine]

If I lived in the states I would move to Canada.

[enjoi]

If I lived in the states I would move to Canada.
If I lived in Canada I would move to Polar Bear Land, i have citizenship you know.

[laxinsmith]

if there was a draft I think I would join officer training school. If I am going to have to fight I would 1) like to be incharge 2) like to pick what branch i fought in

[navylaxfan15]

You're very patriotic aren't you...first a "Do you support the troops" thread, and now a "We're not going to have a draft" thread.

Is there a problem with being patriotic Lax101? Are you stereotyping me now as the crazy conservative who wants to blow everything to hell and wants to steal the worlds oil, because that is what I think you are trying to do? I am simply just trying to get the word out (at least in this thread) that the media is full of crap and if they tell you a draft is coming and you believe it, you are an idiot. They want to get ratings.
I am patriotic. So what? At least I love the land I live in and I don't try and bring out all the negatives because there are many more positives.

[laxrat22]

Is there a problem with being patriotic Lax101? Are you stereotyping me now as the crazy conservative who wants to blow everything to hell and wants to steal the worlds oil, because that is what I think you are trying to do? I am simply just trying to get the word out (at least in this thread) that the media is full of crap and if they tell you a draft is coming and you believe it, you are an idiot. They want to get ratings.
I am patriotic. So what? At least I love the land I live in and I don't try and bring out all the negatives because there are many more positives.

haha dang man, dont get your panties in a bunch. you are over-analyzing what he said a little too much. he was just stating the favt that you are very patriotic

and last time i checked they stopped the no gays in the military thing back in the late 90s i think. since its a government agency its illegal for the to discriminate, technically. although homosexuality is still widely discouraged in the military and most gays in the military hide the fact that they are gay because they'll get harassed, there have even been cases of gay soldiers being beaten to death

if there was a draft i'll try to find someone powerful enough to stick me in the national guard so i dont have to fight :agree:

if there was another serious attack and there was a big thing going down, i'd probably enlist

[exile lacrosse]

the reason i would run from the draft and have no problem saying it is because i do not support the reason or the president. If it was something i believed in then i would go, but i will not put my life in jepordy for a cause i do not beileve in and a "leader" i do not support.

[BuckWyld]

The "All Volunteer" Military has more than enough members to topple many more terrorist organizations.

wouldnt they have to topple one before they could topple more?

[BTlaxripper]

In all honesty, if Iran doesn't shape up. . . I feel a UN sanctioned war coming up.

Outrightly re-opening nuclear weapon facilities the UN closed isn't really a good omen. If the UN calls more military solutions, I'm sure we would be right behind them, and our troops are pretty stretched as they stand.

IF a huge Western World vs. Middle East war happens which I see as inevitable, I'm sure a draft would happen.

But hopefully my crazy theory never materializes.

Eventually there will be another draft, could be tomorrow, could be in 200 years, who knows.

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

A draft won't happen anytime soon... the current administration is doing a pretty good job of extending tours and adding on a couple more tours to keep us out of a draft, and salvage what they can in their approval ratings...

On the question of whether i would go if i were drafted to iraq... i would make sure to find a camera of a major news network, such as cnn or fox news, and tear my draft card and throw it in a fire. i would rather sit my butt in jail and have it on my record than fight in a cause i dont believe in. i have my pride...

[Frndlefire]

Wait...have you guys really been hearing about them implementing a draft? I havn't...then again, I swore off television news. It's nothing but rubbish. Go grab a couple newspapers. Honestly...watch some crack like Nancy Grace and think about the mentality of the people who take that seriously.

Anyway, on the draft...I am a registered conscientious objector. It's not an issue of fearing death or injury, I just don't believe that I could morally or ethically kill someone. I'm am very strongly pro-military, but I am also strongly anti-war. I think these go hand in hand much better than most people would care to think. Being a conscientious objector is so often cited as being the mark of a coward... but I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. There are cowards in the military, they just don't last long. I am also a proponent of many eastern philosophical tenets about harmony with your surroundings and person. War is fairly opposed to these ideas.

Don't get me wrong, there are of course circumstances where such action should and must be taken, but I'll refer you to the Vatican's position on justified war for that. I agree with them.

[YHSlax0506]

To the thread starter, there will eventually be a draft. But no one knows when there will be one, like BTlaxripper said, it could be millions of years away. You cannot chose whether or not you want to get drafted you moron. You HAVE to, unless you do harm to yourself or others, aka be in jail. So good luck with that one. Oh and p.s. you think about stuff to much.

[Frndlefire]

To the thread starter, there will eventually be a draft. But no one knows when there will be one, like BTlaxripper said, it could be millions of years away. You cannot chose whether or not you want to get drafted you moron. You HAVE to, unless you do harm to yourself or others, aka be in jail. So good luck with that one. Oh and p.s. you think about stuff to much.
First, there is no such thing as thinking about stuff too much...

And there is that think called conscientous objection. Our military recognises it. Also, it isn't only restricted to religious beliefs, philosophical beliefs are recognized as legitimate grounds for conscientious objection as well.

[WSWDpole33]

there will always b problems with the middle east. its in the middle of europe, so it is the trading crossroads, so conflict will always b an issue. If it was my choice, i would nuke the whole place. Were losing innocent lives searching for a couple men, one- Osama, who we dont no if hes dead or alive, he could have made these movies years\months ago. If i was in charge, i would pull out our troops and nuke that area, IMO its a waste of time, fighting a war no1 will win, its gonna b going on for a long time.

[Frndlefire]

there will always b problems with the middle east. its in the middle of europe, so it is the trading crossroads, so conflict will always b an issue. If it was my choice, i would nuke the whole place. Were losing innocent lives searching for a couple men, one- Osama, who we dont no if hes dead or alive, he could have made these movies years\months ago. If i was in charge, i would pull out our troops and nuke that area, IMO its a waste of time, fighting a war no1 will win, its gonna b going on for a long time.
you'r joke isn't funny. if it wasn't a joke, I'm a little taken aback. Because we're innocent lives (2000+) we should kill billions (read: billions) and cripple industries by just getting rid of that part of the world. I'm going to a patronizing dick and write that off as you hadn't thought it through cause I'd be a little suprised if someone meant something like this... keep in mind we are indebted to the middle east for essentially all of our modern scientific knowledge. Who do you think was studying astronomy when Europe was busy killing eachother and calling science witchcraft.

[rjattack19]

i think that i would be the worst soldier...i dont have the balls to kill anyone...and my uncle was in vietnam and he is still really messed up, everyone in his group died except him...like we will be eating dinner and his face will just freez completly, like some times he gets visions of being back in the war and starts saying weird things and starts to cry...its really scary

[WSWDpole33]

you'r joke isn't funny. if it wasn't a joke, I'm a little taken aback. Because we're innocent lives (2000+) we should kill billions (read: billions) and cripple industries by just getting rid of that part of the world. I'm going to a patronizing dick and write that off as you hadn't thought it through cause I'd be a little suprised if someone meant something like this... keep in mind we are indebted to the middle east for essentially all of our modern scientific knowledge. Who do you think was studying astronomy when Europe was busy killing eachother and calling science witchcraft.

But the thing is we all have different views about this. My view is that its not worth going over there and fighting another countries war. That area of the country is trouble. For how long have they tried to reach a treaty\resolution on how to divide this. My cousin died in the war, and i believe he didnt have to, all because we are angry at a group of scumbags - al queida (sp?) which i understand since they performed terrorist acts on us. I dont think its our business to fight this, so IMO i think we should get rid of them.

[Frndlefire]

But the thing is we all have different views about this. My view is that its not worth going over there and fighting another countries war. That area of the country is trouble. For how long have they tried to reach a treaty\resolution on how to divide this. My cousin died in the war, and i believe he didnt have to, all because we are angry at a group of scumbags - al queida (sp?) which i understand since they performed terrorist acts on us. I dont think its our business to fight this, so IMO i think we should get rid of them.
no, you didn't say get rid of the terrorists, you said nuke the middle east. That is hardly the same thing even if they both would involve genocide on an enormous scale. I don't think we should be fighting either. I have already said I don't believe in killing people. But I think nuking the middle east would hardly solve anything while being horrific. We're all essentially the same in the end.

[fenwicklax89]

Is there a problem with being patriotic Lax101? Are you stereotyping me now as the crazy conservative who wants to blow everything to hell and wants to steal the worlds oil, because that is what I think you are trying to do? I am simply just trying to get the word out (at least in this thread) that the media is full of crap and if they tell you a draft is coming and you believe it, you are an idiot. They want to get ratings.
I am patriotic. So what? At least I love the land I live in and I don't try and bring out all the negatives because there are many more positives.

he was just making sure you werent spamming up the boards with these types of threads without being serious about them.

[WSWDpole33]

no, you didn't say get rid of the terrorists, you said nuke the middle east. That is hardly the same thing even if they both would involve genocide on an enormous scale. I don't think we should be fighting either. I have already said I don't believe in killing people. But I think nuking the middle east would hardly solve anything while being horrific. We're all essentially the same in the end.

ok yea, i get what your saying now n agree

[raykessler]

im pretty much set, i cant be drafted because without glasses/contacts im pretty much blind and i have flat feet, so im not really able to march in formation, although neither of these things are that bad their enough to keep me out of the draft. The bad part of that is that if i wanted to enlist the only thing i would be able to do is the navy.

[beach2300]

If there was a draft I would be happy to enlist....However I would be medically rejected. Oh well. Useto be pretty good in the navy's flight sims, but thats another story for a different day.

As to the question posed...I believe that there will be a draft in the future. There will come a point in time where the soldiers that are in at the present time will get tired of re-uping. When that happens we will need to find another source for bodies. I hope that this is not the case, but looking at things in a realistic manner I feel that a draft may be the only option in the future.

The situation with the Middle East will only worsen. These people are determined to fight, and will gladly use whatever they can find to do so.

Iran- wow....big topic. Basic feelings- They are stepping on a very very thin line. If they continue to talk a big talk and continue with their plans...Someone will try and take control of the situation. Hopefully it will be something that the Security Council agrees on, and I personally cannot see any of the 5 perm members vetoing anything...or even if it is tossed into the general assembly, I think they will give the go to use "any means necessary". Looking at it from Iran's point of view...why not have nuclear weapons..huge power base. If I was a leader of a small country I would do whatever I could to produce nuclear weapons and after I would publicize it.

Who knows what will happen....all I know is that the U.S. will no longer be the major super power of the world in 20 years....

[zachm90]

I don't think a draft will happen any time soon, but if it does, i will definitely go and support my country.

[GBaschski]

I firmly believe that we would sooner pull out of Iraq rather than have a draft, but I'd go anyway.
You won't see a draft happen unless there is a huge neccesity regarding the safety of the country (ie: world war 2), and there's no question in my mind that I would join up if my country needed me. Anyone who doesn't is a coward, thats my opinion.

[JoshM]

I firmly believe that we would sooner pull out of Iraq rather than have a draft, but I'd go anyway.
You won't see a draft happen unless there is a huge neccesity regarding the safety of the country (ie: world war 2), and there's no question in my mind that I would join up if my country needed me. Anyone who doesn't is a coward, thats my opinion.
Ever heard of the Vietnam War?

[ReLaxin 13]

what's the min. age to be drafted? Or what was if for Vietnam, Korea, etc.

[Diesel4958]

I'd claim dual citizenship. I would not fight like Hooligan for something I do not believe in...

[JoshM]

what's the min. age to be drafted? Or what was if for Vietnam, Korea, etc.
18.

I believe if there is another draft, women will also be drafted.

[Palmettolax45]

The only reason we would ever need a draft would be to fight China, Which who knows could happen in the next 20 years. And if there was a draft to go to Iraq i would leave the country i would not fight in a war that we have no right to be in and i dont agree with.

[Jmalins23]

ide proudly go if they let me... but i have diabetes

[Frndlefire]

18.

I believe if there is another draft, women will also be drafted.
I think you may actually be able to enlist in the marines when you're seventeen. You just can't be deployed until you're 18.

[JoshM]

I think you may actually be able to enlist in the marines when you're seventeen. You just can't be deployed until you're 18.
Yeah, but you can't be drafted until 18. Right?

[HdGLaxWarrior]

I'll go if I'm drafted.

And to those who said they'd move away, shame on you.

[cem1391]

Im not trying to diss anyone whod leave the country if there was a draft but you live in america and all the necesities you take for granted arent going to be in all countries. We have it pretty easy here, so my stand would be to join and defend the country you live in.

edit: i dont totally agree with bush on the middle east situation but still

[exile lacrosse]

I'll go if I'm drafted.

And to those who said they'd move away, shame on you.

why? because we refuse to put our lives in jepordy for a cause we dont support?

[Frndlefire]

I'll go if I'm drafted.

And to those who said they'd move away, shame on you.
Or because we find killing morally reprehensible?

[HdGLaxWarrior]

why? because we refuse to put our lives in jepordy for a cause we dont support?

No, because you duck out on protecting your country.

[JoshM]

No, because you duck out on protecting your country.
Protecting your country? How do you know the next time the draft is necessary will be a time when our country needs protection?

If they needed the draft for the current war in Iraq, that's not protecting your country.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Well, excuse me for wanting to make other peoples lives better.

[LAcRossE KiNg]

i would go in a heartbeat give me a gun and i wouldnt need boot camp give me a gun and i will go open a can of woop a$$

[JoshM]

Well, excuse me for wanting to make other peoples lives better.
But this isn't protecting your country.


why? because we refuse to put our lives in jepordy for a cause we dont support?


No, because you duck out on protecting your country.

I don't get it.

[ramslac05]

I'll go if I'm drafted.

And to those who said they'd move away, shame on you.
i completely agree and thats just pitiful if you wouldnt go and help ppl who r out there risking their lives so u can live ur life evryday

[Mavido]

Im a pacifist.. when im not on the field i would never want to hurt another individual... now this has never been my policy, but it is now. I would refuse 100% to be drafted.

And if they did try to draft me, i would sue the united states goverment untill every woman in USA between the ages of 18 and 45 was signed up for selective service and the draft board selected just as many women as men. Because they are forcing men to do something they are not making women do. Its discrimiating based on sex, which is agaisnt the constitution.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

But this isn't protecting your country.






I don't get it.

You mentioned different circumstances.

Mavido, that would never work.

[i live 4 lax]

why did you join the lax forums to start patriotic threads..? jw... but if you want my opinion, ill give it to you.... but your not going to like it. i would move to canada, and flick off the whitehouse on my way. im not going to die fighting a war a dont think is right. im not going to die doing the wrong thing. i want to take a piss on GWB's foot, and then tell him to go back to school and get some common sense. who heard abotu how he approved an arabic company buying 6 or 7 (i forgot) of our MAJOR ports? im in no way racist, my best friend is arabic, but that just common sense right there. am i the only person who has this opinion?

[HdGLaxWarrior]

why did you join the lax forums to start patriotic threads..? jw... but if you want my opinion, ill give it to you.... but your not going to like it. i would move to canada, and flick off the whitehouse on my way. im not going to die fighting a war a dont think is right. im not going to die doing the wrong thing. i want to take a piss on GWB's foot, and then tell him to go back to school and get some common sense. who heard abotu how he approved an arabic company buying 6 or 7 (i forgot) of our MAJOR ports? im in no way racist, my best friend is arabic, but that just common sense right there. am i the only person who has this opinion?

How is freeing millions of people from an oppresive ruler "wrong"? You need to get your priorities in line.

[OldGoalie]

Or because we find killing morally reprehensible?

So what does that imply, that everyone currently in the mililtary finds killing morally acceptable? What a silly argument.

No one wants to kill, but in war people do what they have to do to accomplish a mission or survive. Sacrifice for the greater good is what this country was founded on.

[GBaschski]

Im a pacifist.. when im not on the field i would never want to hurt another individual... now this has never been my policy, but it is now. I would refuse 100% to be drafted.

And if they did try to draft me, i would sue the united states goverment untill every woman in USA between the ages of 18 and 45 was signed up for selective service and the draft board selected just as many women as men. Because they are forcing men to do something they are not making women do. Its discrimiating based on sex, which is agaisnt the constitution.


Come on man, you'd send your girlfriend off to war? (maybe you don't have a girlfriend but if you did)

[ColtsLax]

I have a question. all of you who said, "im not going to fight for a war i dont agree with"

How do you know? what if the circumstances of the war are not the same as the Iraq circumstances? What if we are going to fight another hitler, or respod to an attack on American Soil. how can you write off the draft when you dont even know if A.) it will ever happen or B.)you dont know why we are going to fight.

If i get drafted, i would join the Air Force. I wont be able to fly planes, due to my vision, but i could work satellites or radar or something. Or maybe go Navy and get to use Aegis(rubs hands in atticipation)

Oh and i live 4 Lax, that thing with the ports is about 1 week old, i made a thread about it.

[twin58]

Its discrimiating based on sex, which is agaisnt the constitution.

Actually, not. The Equal Rights Amendment was only ratified by 35 states, short of the 38 states needed.

Text of the ERA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Text_of_the_ERA)

"SECTION 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
"SEC. 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
"SEC. 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification."

Mixed reception in state legislatures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Mixed_reception_in_state_le gislatures)

The initial pace of state legislative ratifications was rapid during 1972 and 1973, but then slowed considerably with only three ratifications during 1974, just one in 1975, none at all in 1976, and only one in 1977. The 92nd Congress, in proposing the ERA, had set a seven-year time limit for the Amendment's ratification, and by the end of that deadline on March 22, 1979, a total of 35 of the required 38 states had ratified it. Also, as of that date, four of those 35 states had subsequently adopted resolutions to rescind their earlier ratifications and a fifth state adopted a resolution declaring that its earlier approval of the ERA would not extend beyond March 22, 1979....

[jaw22]

Problems with the draft:

1. People are lazier. More people would skip the draft or apply as conscientious objectors.
2. Should women be allowed? Major can of worms to open there.
3. College students. Should they be forced into the draft?
4. Obese people, theres over 300X more obese people now then during the last draft. Imagine your fat halo-obsessed neighbor in boot camp.

Its not going to happen.

[Mavido]

Its discrimiating based on sex, which is agaisnt the constitution.

Actually, not. The Equal Rights Amendment was only ratified by 35 states, short of the 38 states needed.

Text of the ERA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Text_of_the_ERA)

"SECTION 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
"SEC. 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
"SEC. 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification."

Mixed reception in state legislatures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Mixed_reception_in_state_le gislatures)

The initial pace of state legislative ratifications was rapid during 1972 and 1973, but then slowed considerably with only three ratifications during 1974, just one in 1975, none at all in 1976, and only one in 1977. The 92nd Congress, in proposing the ERA, had set a seven-year time limit for the Amendment's ratification, and by the end of that deadline on March 22, 1979, a total of 35 of the required 38 states had ratified it. Also, as of that date, four of those 35 states had subsequently adopted resolutions to rescind their earlier ratifications and a fifth state adopted a resolution declaring that its earlier approval of the ERA would not extend beyond March 22, 1979....

And i am proven wrong... thanks.. i learn something every day.

[YHSlax0506]

First, there is no such thing as thinking about stuff too much...

And there is that think called conscientous objection. Our military recognises it. Also, it isn't only restricted to religious beliefs, philosophical beliefs are recognized as legitimate grounds for conscientious objection as well.
Then what the heck is the purpose of a draft? Since everyone can say no.

[twin58]

Not everyone will say "no."

[wolfie8914]

I'd claim dual citizenship. I would not fight like Hooligan for something I do not believe in...

As in you would lie about dual citizenship? I'm pretty sure you would have to show proof of citizenship...


Or are you saying you would try to attain another citizenship?

[GeorgiaMiddie2]

you people who say you are going to leave the country... c'mon, have some firepower behind your beliefs. leaving the country does nothing but make you look like a coward and export another voice of the cause out of the country. if you're against being drafted, make a stand and show people how you feel... an opinion means nothing if you arent willing to voice it.

[navylaxfan15]

GeorgiaMiddie2 probably makes one of the best points I have read thus far. Dodging the draft makes you a coward. If you are for your cause of not supporting the war, then why would you run away from it? Have the balls to stand up and do something about it. If us true Americans ran away from all of our problems, we would be under someone else's rule. But we stood up to the British etc. and now we have the greatest country. I have no problem with others voicing their opinion, but stating it and running away is flat out pathetic!!

[Mavido]

you people who say you are going to leave the country... c'mon, have some firepower behind your beliefs. leaving the country does nothing but make you look like a coward and export another voice of the cause out of the country. if you're against being drafted, make a stand and show people how you feel... an opinion means nothing if you arent willing to voice it.
I would burn my draft card... and make sure it is a known fact.

I would go to jail to make it known that i disagree with the war.

[livin4lax09]

same thing. I think id go to australia. I've always wanted to go there.

word, I'd hit up NZ. THat's where my sister is right now, and my folks are visiting her for the month.

Is there a problem with being patriotic Lax101? Are you stereotyping me now as the crazy conservative who wants to blow everything to hell and wants to steal the worlds oil, because that is what I think you are trying to do? I am simply just trying to get the word out (at least in this thread) that the media is full of crap and if they tell you a draft is coming and you believe it, you are an idiot. They want to get ratings.
I am patriotic. So what? At least I love the land I live in and I don't try and bring out all the negatives because there are many more positives.

I find it ironic how you preach that the media is lying to us and we shouldn't believe what they're saying, but you're here presenting information with no real backing, and telling us to believe you. You're doing exactly what you claim the media is doing. A wise man once said "believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see."

wouldnt they have to topple one before they could topple more?

There you go folks. He doesn't post that much, but when he does, it's totally worth it.

GeorgiaMiddie2 probably makes one of the best points I have read thus far. Dodging the draft makes you a coward. If you are for your cause of not supporting the war, then why would you run away from it? Have the balls to stand up and do something about it. If us true Americans ran away from all of our problems, we would be under someone else's rule. But we stood up to the British etc. and now we have the greatest country. I have no problem with others voicing their opinion, but stating it and running away is flat out pathetic!!

see here's the dilemma. I said I would go to another country to avoid the draft, because I don't want to waste my life on a war I don't support. SO say I do stand up to the government, and stick it to the man, then get arrested for refusing the draft. Wouldn't I still be wasting part of my life for a war I don't support if I have to deal with all the negative repurcussions? I would stick around and do that if I think I wouldn't be happy anywhere else, but I think there are plenty of countries where I could live happily. After all, not many countries are as superficial as the United States.

[aussielax]

same thing. I think id go to australia. I've always wanted to go there.

Well if that eve happens give me a call and i'm sure we can find a spot on my team for you.

Australia has only had the draft on 2 occasions that was during the first world war and Vietnam. Australia has only ever come under direct threat of invasion once that was in WW2 and we didn't have the draft then but everyone signed up to defend our nation. I don't think anybody can entirley say they would or wouldn't go if they were drafted because it all depends on the cirsumstances of the time. If i was drafted to go to Iraq i would refuse to fight and probabley leave the counrty because the prospect of sharring a jail cell with a big dude called bubba doesn't sound to good to me. I think if Australia was ever under threat again i would join up no questions asked, But i would never join up or let myself be drafted to fight in a war like the one that is taking place in Iraq now.

[dlaxer]

if there was a draft I think I would join officer training school. If I am going to have to fight I would 1) like to be incharge

yeah, but
1) We don't want you in charge,
2) The government doesn't want you in charge.

so, theoretically,therefore, you're now an enlisted man.

trust me dude, things don't always don't go your way so don't bank on being an officer
:bye: :dummy:

[TheKOB]

who heard abotu how he approved an arabic company buying 6 or 7 (i forgot) of our MAJOR ports? im in no way racist, my best friend is arabic, but that just common sense right there. am i the only person who has this opinion?

It's a british company who was bought out by an firm based in an arab nation.

You are being racist...or fearmongering. I just think it's being blown out of proportion until someone goes and proves that the firm in question has ever been involved in terrorism. With international corporations, where they have their home office isn't exactly where they do most of their business, or where even the majority of their workers are from.

As for this draft nonsense I think there should/would only be a draft if there is a threat to national security.

Besides you guys are threatening to pee on the wrong person's foot. Everyone in the military and everyone (to my knowledge anyways) on the republican side of aisle is against the draft. Calls for the draft have come from the democrat side.

Besides, I don't think it's all that bad of an idea to institute something like what Israel has in place...mandatory service... hopefully the government would kick in college tuition as well. Good move militarily and economically...plus maybe it'll instill some appreciation and respect in you yellerbellied cowards threatening to run to the hills (ie Canada) at the slightest chance of military service.

That's right. yeller bellies. I went "there"...

[CavsDefense]

When the president talks to God
Are the conversations brief or long?
Does he ask to rape our women’s' rights
And send poor farm kids off to die?
Does God suggest an oil hike
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Are the consonants all hard or soft?
Is he resolute all down the line?
Is every issue black or white?
Does what God say ever change his mind
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Does he fake that drawl or merely nod?
Agree which convicts should be killed?
Where prisons should be built and filled?
Which voter fraud must be concealed
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
I wonder which one plays the better cop
We should find some jobs. the ghetto's broke
No, they're lazy, George, I say we don't
Just give 'em more liquor stores and dirty coke
That's what God recommends

When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God

When the president talks to God
Does he ever think that maybe he's not?
That that voice is just inside his head
When he kneels next to the presidential bed
Does he ever smell his own bull****
When the president talks to God?

I doubt it

I doubt it

Any questions? For all of the O.P's 'positives', I can name 3 negatives. Try me.

[Frndlefire]

Calls for the draft have come from the democrat side.
You make is sound like Democrats want it...they have proposed it yes, but because they know for a fact that it would get shot down. It's bs politics like everything else. If they propose it, it gets shot down by everyone, it gives them ammo "even republicans do not believe in this"

[Frndlefire]

So what does that imply, that everyone currently in the mililtary finds killing morally acceptable? What a silly argument.

No one wants to kill, but in war people do what they have to do to accomplish a mission or survive. Sacrifice for the greater good is what this country was founded on.
I must have missed the part where I was speaking for other people. No, I don't think that most individuals believe that killing is a wonderful thing. However being friends with a couple marines, they sure have a different approach to it. If you gave me a gun I honestly do not believe I could kill someone. It wouldn't make me a very good soldier now would it.


I can be called a coward, but at least I know where I stand instead of talking big about something I never think I am actually going to have to do. I think most of us here, either pro or con, are too young or havn't thought it through enough to really know what we would do if we were being asked to go fight somewhere else in the world. I don't know what I would do, but it wouldn't involve a gun.

[TheKOB]

You make is sound like Democrats want it...they have proposed it yes, but because they know for a fact that it would get shot down. It's bs politics like everything else. If they propose it, it gets shot down by everyone, it gives them ammo "even republicans do not believe in this"

Nothing makes me madder than BS politics. Good thing they're voting on bills not intended to be passed.

[Frndlefire]

Nothing makes me madder than BS politics. Good thing they're voting on bills not intended to be passed.
yea, well it seems like all politics is bs nowadays with the prevelance of television newscasts... nothing is shown how it is on those things.

[twin58]

If you are for your cause of not supporting the war, then why would you run away from it? ... If us true Americans ran away....

In the thread Who Supports the Troops? (http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=37953), you answered your own question by saying, "its quite obvious I do." I can't help but notice that in your profile (http://www.lacrosseforums.com/member.php?userid=11017), your birthday is given as August 12, 1986. That makes you nineteen years old, legally an adult, and fully empowered to enter into contracts, including an enlistment contract.

Is the need not now great enough?

[TheKOB]

In the thread Who Supports the Troops? (http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=37953), you answered your own question by saying, "its quite obvious I do." I can't help but notice that in your profile (http://www.lacrosseforums.com/member.php?userid=11017), your birthday is given as August 12, 1986. That makes you nineteen years old, legally an adult, and fully empowered to enter into contracts, including an enlistment contract.

Is the need not now great enough?

I think he was saying if there was a draft he'd go...

[Frndlefire]

I think he was saying if there was a draft he'd go...
and I think Twin is suggesting that he should already be enlisted if he is so in support of our military efforts. Perhaps a "send the willing before the unwilling" idea (speculating)

[twin58]

You are correct, sir. It seems a shame to waste such enthusiasm.

[TheKOB]

and I think Twin is suggesting that he should already be enlisted if he is so in support of our military efforts. Perhaps a "send the willing before the unwilling" idea (speculating)

Sounds like a michael moore tactic.

[Frndlefire]

Sounds like a michael moore tactic.
I don't understand... Michael Moore takes video and statements out of context to make political points....?

[TheKOB]

I don't understand... Michael Moore takes video and statements out of context to make political points....?

He also blindsided people and wanted them to sign papers commiting their kids to the military to show their support of the war.

[Frndlefire]

He also blindsided people and wanted them to sign papers commiting their kids to the military to show their support of the war.
which isn't the same thing... they are obviously not willing to enlist. Navy has said he is a very strong proponent of enlisting...

[TheKOB]

Navy has said he is a very strong proponent of enlisting...

Where? I can't seem to find it, unless it's in another thread. All he has said is that if there was a draft he'd answer the call to duty.

[navylaxfan15]

You are correct, sir. It seems a shame to waste such enthusiasm.

Hey. I almost went to Norwich, the first private military school in the nation. I looked at VMI, had offers from the Citadel. However, I really wanted to go to the Naval Academy like my brother. Unfortunatley, that is a highly competitive place and I didn't have the grades to make it there. I am currently seeking a position in marine corp ROTC. So do not tell me I am wasting enthusiasm.

[BuckWyld]

How is freeing millions of people from an oppresive ruler "wrong"? You need to get your priorities in line.

I thought we went to war because Saddam had WMDs? Or was it because he joined forces with Al Queda?

[lax4life6]

im a little indecisive about this. i know i would not make a good soldier at all but i would want to help my country in some way. like radar or maybe even one of those remote spy planes or something.

[twin58]

Fair enough. I concede the point.

[i live 4 lax]

It's a british company who was bought out by an firm based in an arab nation.

You are being racist...or fearmongering. I just think it's being blown out of proportion until someone goes and proves that the firm in question has ever been involved in terrorism. With international corporations, where they have their home office isn't exactly where they do most of their business, or where even the majority of their workers are from.

As for this draft nonsense I think there should/would only be a draft if there is a threat to national security.

Besides you guys are threatening to pee on the wrong person's foot. Everyone in the military and everyone (to my knowledge anyways) on the republican side of aisle is against the draft. Calls for the draft have come from the democrat side.

Besides, I don't think it's all that bad of an idea to institute something like what Israel has in place...mandatory service... hopefully the government would kick in college tuition as well. Good move militarily and economically...plus maybe it'll instill some appreciation and respect in you yellerbellied cowards threatening to run to the hills (ie Canada) at the slightest chance of military service.

That's right. yeller bellies. I went "there"...
How is freeing millions of people from an oppresive ruler "wrong"? You need to get your priorities in line.
no im not being racist im sorry but im just not. what if they are terrorists and they allow a biological weapon to be shipped into the united states? like i said common sense. and no george bush is NOT freeing anyone from an oppressive leader, hes forcing a government that they OBVIOUSLY dont want on them. im convinced that the middle east just likes to be violent. for every little thing that offends them, there are car bombs, riots, and innocent people die. do you hear about any other countries rioting over something little like a cartoon of there prophet muhammad? no. the USA doesnt riot over southpark having jesus in there cartoons. just some food for thought

[JoshM]

no im not being racist im sorry but im just not. what if they are terrorists and they allow a biological weapon to be shipped into the united states? like i said common sense. and no george bush is NOT freeing anyone from an oppressive leader, hes forcing a government that they OBVIOUSLY dont want on them. im convinced that the middle east just likes to be violent. for every little thing that offends them, there are car bombs, riots, and innocent people die. do you hear about any other countries rioting over something little like a cartoon of there prophet muhammad? no. the USA doesnt riot over southpark having jesus in there cartoons. just some food for thought
I agree with you on some points, however, it is unfair to make a comparison to the cartoon of the prophet and anything over here. They have a COMPLETELY different culture, and it is nearly impossible for any american to understand without having lived there for a long period of time.

[ColtsLax]

no im not being racist im sorry but im just not.
good answer

and no george bush is NOT freeing anyone from an oppressive leader, hes forcing a government that they OBVIOUSLY dont want on them.
i didnt realize you had a finger on the pulse of the average iraqi. How is ts Obvious? i guess i missed it.

[franks2089]

If they brought back the draft I would go join the airforce before I was called in. Air force has cooler stuff and a lower death %.

[Frndlefire]

How is ts Obvious? i guess i missed it.
"we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators!" *cough* er.....


Ok, I agree that a democratic gov't is better than Saddam...I just like repeating statements that have obviously fallen through.

[i live 4 lax]

good answer


i didnt realize you had a finger on the pulse of the average iraqi. How is ts Obvious? i guess i missed it.
you havent seen them on tv rioting? keep up with the news man. and if i was a racist, i wouldnt have an iraqi friend. i dont have to prove anything you, i know im not lying and thats that.

[ColtsLax]

you havent seen them on tv rioting? keep up with the news man.
i belive they are rioting over the cartoons, not over a democratic government. didnt you see the iraqis crush americans in voter turnout when we had our respective elections?

[i live 4 lax]

i belive they are rioting over the cartoons, not over a democratic government. didnt you see the iraqis crush americans in voter turnout when we had our respective elections?
they were rioting before the cartoons to you know. less people would have died with saddam as leader. were killing more people than saddam has killed in his life.

[twin58]

"we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators!"

The entire interview:

"we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/cheneymeetthepress.htm)

[ColtsLax]

they were rioting before the cartoons to you know. less people would have died with saddam as leader. were killing more people than saddam has killed in his life.
proof? id like to see where it says american troops persoanlly killed more innocent civilians then saddam did.

[twin58]

The British medical journal The Lancet (http://www.thelancet.com/) released, on October 29, 2004, a study of the change in mortality due to the U. S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Mortality before and after the 2003 invasion of Iraq (http://www.bluejayway.net/pdf/lancet_10-29-04_article_on_IRAQ_casualties.pdf)

You can also view it as an .html file. Google for lancet iraq civilian (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=lancet+iraq+civilian&btnG=Google+Search), and it will be the first hit.

Findings

The risk of death was estimated to be 2·5-fold (95% CI 1·6-4·2) higher after the invasion when compared with the preinvasion period. Two-thirds of all violent deaths were reported in one cluster in the city of Falluja. If we exclude the Falluja data, the risk of death is 1·5-fold (1·1-2·3) higher after the invasion. We estimate that 98000 more deaths than expected (8000-194000) happened after the invasion outside of Falluja and far more if the outlier Falluja cluster is included. The major causes of death before the invasion were myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accidents, and other chronic disorders whereas after the invasion violence was the primary cause of death. Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children. The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8·1-419) than in the period before the war.

Interpretation

Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Violence accounted for most of the excess deaths, and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most violent deaths. We have shown that collection of public-health information is possible even during periods of extreme violence. Our results need further verification and should lead to changes to reduce non-combatant deaths from air strikes.

Edited some to account for the conversion from .pdf format to .html format.

Saddam was no angel. The CIA tends not to choose softies to run countries.

On the left, Donald Rumsfeld (http://www.awolbush.com/rumsfeld_saddam.jpg)

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#The_Iran-Iraq_War_.281980.E2.80.931988.29) says this:

On March 16, 1988, the Kurdish town of Halabjah was attacked with a mix of mustard gas and nerve agents, killing 5,000 civilians, and maiming, disfiguring, or seriously debilitating 10,000 more ([6]).

That's just a fraction. I really don't know what the final tally will be for him.

[lax4life56]

i would only fight in defense of our own country, meaning a foriegn army attacks and invades the US. however i do not think it is justified to attack a whole country due to a renegade band of terrorists making a individual attack on US soil. although i mourn for the people who were lost in such attacks (my father was almost killed in the 9/11 attacks) i do not believe its our job to impose our way of government on a country with a completely different culture. its not the US's job to police the world. we shouldnt be fighting other peoples battles.

[BuckWyld]

no im not being racist im sorry but im just not. what if they are terrorists and they allow a biological weapon to be shipped into the united states? like i said common sense. and no george bush is NOT freeing anyone from an oppressive leader, hes forcing a government that they OBVIOUSLY dont want on them. im convinced that the middle east just likes to be violent. for every little thing that offends them, there are car bombs, riots, and innocent people die. do you hear about any other countries rioting over something little like a cartoon of there prophet muhammad? no. the USA doesnt riot over southpark having jesus in there cartoons. just some food for thought

I don't think I have ever heard the phrase "I'm not being a racist" that did not precede a racist statement, another popular one is "Some of my best friends are...".

This whole port thing is really much ado about nothing. The ports will continue to be staffed by the same people who work there now, the UAE has to import workers for this sort of job in their own country. The security will be taken care of by the Coasties. Really this will change nothing execept where the money made from port operations goes, instead of going to England it will go to the UAE.