Flopping? (like Basketball)

[pantherLax]

You know in basketball when you take an offensive foul as a defender you sometimes exaggerate it, act it out alot, and fall down? Can you do that on offense?

Are there any situations like that, where you can act so a penalty/violation can be called against the other team?

(Another example is like the Reggie Miller, where he shoots it and kicks his feet out so it looks like he got fouled. but of course it wouldnt matter if you got pushed when your shooting in lax)

[FredtheCat]

If you're going for a ground ball and you feel the slightest push on your back, you can fall down and get a call.

[LaxRef]

Illegal Procedure:
u. Taking a dive or feinting a slash to the head or body in order to deceive the official and draw a penalty.

So what you're proposing is illegal in NCAA lacrosse. I don't believe the NFHS has the same rule, but there you'd be risking a USC. Tough call to sell, though. Has anyone ever made this call?

[AHA lax5]

Well, im not sure, but I'm pretty sure that you can't run through a pick in lacrosse, so if your setting a pick and someone runs into you kind of hard and you just fell over, you could get a call.

[mustang_lax]

We faught this team who had a small attackman. Everytime he's go for a groundball, especially near the out of bounds lines, he would pick it up and wait for a defender to ome..after just a nudge..he'd jump forward and we'd get alled for a push. This happened a good 10 times in the game (not an exaggeration). Thank goodness for our man down defense. We stil ended up winning the game but I felt that it was cheap playing.

[LaxRef]

We faught this team who had a small attackman. Everytime he's go for a groundball, especially near the out of bounds lines, he would pick it up and wait for a defender to ome..after just a nudge..he'd jump forward and we'd get alled for a push. This happened a good 10 times in the game (not an exaggeration). Thank goodness for our man down defense. We stil ended up winning the game but I felt that it was cheap playing.

This is a case where a polite word from your coach to the officials can work wonders: "Sir, we feel that attackman #22 is intentionally flopping whenever there is any contact in order to draw penalties. Could you please watch for that?"

[pantherLax]

Wait so LaxRef, you never made this kind of an illegal procedure call right?

[mustang_lax]

This is a case where a polite word from your coach to the officials can work wonders: "Sir, we feel that attackman #22 is intentionally flopping whenever there is any contact in order to draw penalties. Could you please watch for that?"


Our coach and even assistant coaches addressed the referee's about this several times and the refs just responded with " I'll call the game coach, you just focus on your team."

I was so agrevated. It was just those referees though. They blew a game for us too, the same refs. All the refs from the other games were superb. We actually had a ref who then went to referee the Hopkins game.

[LaxRef]

Wait so LaxRef, you never made this kind of an illegal procedure call right?

Correct. I'd call it if I saw it--and I've seen video of things in games where I would have called it--but I've never seen something obvious enough to call. Often, if you think the guy might be flopping but it's not obvious, it's a no call either way.

The one thing I'll never do is call the push and the flop at the same time, like they do in hockey sometimes. Either there was a foul, or the guy flopped; I'll never call both.

[ColtsLax]

Well, im not sure, but I'm pretty sure that you can't run through a pick in lacrosse, so if your setting a pick and someone runs into you kind of hard and you just fell over, you could get a call.
you can if you didn't see it, or dont lower your shoulder to purpously knock the guy over. But if you get blindsided, and hit a guy, its not a penalty.

[TXD2LAX]

I see goalies try to get inerference calls all the time by purposely hitting an attackman's stick. But you know goalies take a lot of crap, so I guess they deserve any edge they can come up with.

[LaxRef]

I see goalies try to get inerference calls all the time by purposely hitting an attackman's stick. But you know goalies take a lot of crap, so I guess they deserve any edge they can come up with.

Yeah, I guess the counter to this is that if you don't want to get called for interference, don't crowd the goalie when he's trying to pass. The goalie tends to get the benefit of the doubt in these situations.

[RockStar]

you can if you didn't see it, or dont lower your shoulder to purpously knock the guy over. But if you get blindsided, and hit a guy, its not a penalty.

You sure? If the pick-setter's feet are planted, and the ball's not loose and within five yards, I don't think you can crash through and knock him over.

[RockStar]

You know in basketball when you take an offensive foul as a defender you sometimes exaggerate it, act it out alot, and fall down? Can you do that on offense?

Are there any situations like that, where you can act so a penalty/violation can be called against the other team?......

You're asking if it's OK to "dive".

It's not, BE A MAN, DAMMIT!

If I'm reffing and I catch you doing this, I'm penalizing you somehow, probably USC.

Also note that if I catch you diving, I'm probably going to be more lenient on anyone checking you later in the game.

[LaxRef]

You sure? If the pick-setter's feet are planted, and the ball's not loose and within five yards, I don't think you can crash through and knock him over.

ColtsLax is right: if you don't see the pick, it doesn't matter how hard you run into the guy, there's no foul. But if you see the pick and try to run through him, check, him, knock him down, whatever, it's unnecessary roughness.

[WHEELAX2]

So what you're proposing is illegal in NCAA lacrosse. I don't believe the NFHS has the same rule, but there you'd be risking a USC. Tough call to sell, though. Has anyone ever made this call?


most of the flops, you'll hear refs say.. "no, no, that was a flop" I've never seen a flop called, but I have seen refs acknowledge the fact that a player flopped..

[roycegracie47]

most of the flops, you'll hear refs say.. "no, no, that was a flop" I've never seen a flop called, but I have seen refs acknowledge the fact that a player flopped..
That's as far as I've ever seen it go to as well, having played with all sorts of types of guys who purposly flop, set themselves up to be pushed (moslty from legitimate use of boxing a guy out) and guys who loosen their helmets to make every nudge or check seem greater than it is. And in most cases the ref just politley infomrs them their preformance wasn't Oscar worthy. I would think a usc could be in order if it's like the above mention case of a small attack purposly flopping at every nudge as he's obviously trying to push the letter of the rules to gain an advantage.

[eme]

Aspiring thespians are addressed with a specific rule in NCAA play. I have only seen in called once. No such rule (IP) exists in NFHS rulebook.

[LaxRef]

Aspiring thespians are addressed with a specific rule in NCAA play. I have only seen in called once. No such rule (IP) exists in NFHS rulebook.

Yeah, I think if you needed to address it in NFHS, you'd have to go to USC, which would be very hard to sell. More likely, you say, "Coach, if #11 keeps flopping everytime someone gets within a foot of him, he's going to get a USC" and that should be enough to stop it.

[ploaref]

in college we had a "check" called The AbsorbO and it was quite effective. You'd run or position yourself in front of an opponent (usually a MUCH bigger guy and usually defenseman clearing) and then sorta fall over backwards as he tried to plow over you, effectively bringing him down on top of you. Never saw that one called in 4 years of college competition.

[skip0l]

i unclip one of my straps and wear my helmet a little loose like powell to get the bobble-head on slash's. it works semi-well, it also lets me communicate a lot better wiht my team, because my jaw isn't so restricted.

[CTLaxer]

Never heard the term "flopping" before. Sounds kind of silly to me. We always called it "diving" or "taking a dive". As much a reference to lacrosse as it is to hockey, since the sports are so similar. I think this word/phrase is much more descriptive and will get the point across. Just my $0.02

[LaxRef]

I think "flop" tends to get more use in basketball.

[Snake~eyes]

I think "flop" tends to get more use in basketball.
Yes flopping is a basketball term but it is very specific. Flopping means to intentionally fall down to get a charge call when an offensive player runs into you with minimal or even no contact.

[pantherLax]

My original sports are basketball and soccer, and because ive picked up lax only a year ago i dont have the expierence. So i tend to try to relate what i know about the other 2 with lacrosse.
And being a good actor is useful in soccer and basketball so i thought maybe in lacrosse...

[BuckWyld]

We have a kid on our team who has taken flopping to an art form. He will get one or two calls early in the game, but where he reallly takes it to the next level is that frequently the guys defending him get so angry they start to actually foul him and end up getting thrown out of the game.

[pboyd]

ColtsLax is right: if you don't see the pick, it doesn't matter how hard you run into the guy, there's no foul. But if you see the pick and try to run through him, check, him, knock him down, whatever, it's unnecessary roughness.

Not sure all of the above interpretations meet the rule for UR specifically "Deliverate and excessively violent contact....." - my interpretation of "run through him" doesn't draw a flag if its not "excessively violent."

[LaxRef]

Not sure all of the above interpretations meet the rule for UR specifically "Deliverate and excessively violent contact....." - my interpretation of "run through him" doesn't draw a flag if its not "excessively violent."

The exact wording is:

Unnecessary roughness includes the following:

b. Deliberate and excessively violent contact made by a defensive player against an offensive player who has established a screening position.

Specifically, what is it that you think is being called UR above that isn't covered by the rule. The only one I saw that anyone was saying was UR was lowering the shoulder and hitting the screener to knock him down. To me, that's deliberate, and it's excessively violent for the situation at hand. You could also call it an IBC since the screener does not have the ball and is not within 5 yards of a loose ball.

[laxfan25]

I've never called someone for flopping, but have let them know that their act wasn't appreciated and they don't get a flag on the "push".
On the pick question, if I see that the deferender has noticed the pick and drops the shoulder to bowl him over I'll call UR. It's pretty obvious when you're out there - you see the guy see the pick and then get ready to level him. Normal contact is fine though.